Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-05 Thread Erik Trimble
Wes Felter wrote: Eric D. Mudama wrote: On Mon, Jan 4 at 16:43, Wes Felter wrote: Eric D. Mudama wrote: I am not convinced that a general purpose CPU, running other software in parallel, will be able to be timely and responsive enough to maximize bandwidth in an SSD controller without specia

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-05 Thread Wes Felter
Eric D. Mudama wrote: On Mon, Jan 4 at 16:43, Wes Felter wrote: Eric D. Mudama wrote: I am not convinced that a general purpose CPU, running other software in parallel, will be able to be timely and responsive enough to maximize bandwidth in an SSD controller without specialized hardware supp

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-05 Thread Joerg Schilling
Juergen Nickelsen wrote: > joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) writes: > > > The netapps patents contain claims on ideas that I invented for my Diploma > > thesis work between 1989 and 1991, so the netapps patents only describe > > prior > > art. The new ideas introduced with

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-05 Thread Andrey Kuzmin
600? I've heard 1.5GBps reported. On 1/5/10, Eric D. Mudama wrote: > On Mon, Jan 4 at 16:43, Wes Felter wrote: >>Eric D. Mudama wrote: >> >>>I am not convinced that a general purpose CPU, running other software >>>in parallel, will be able to be timely and responsive enough to >>>maximize bandwi

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-05 Thread Eric D. Mudama
On Mon, Jan 4 at 16:43, Wes Felter wrote: Eric D. Mudama wrote: I am not convinced that a general purpose CPU, running other software in parallel, will be able to be timely and responsive enough to maximize bandwidth in an SSD controller without specialized hardware support. Fusion-io would

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-04 Thread Wes Felter
Eric D. Mudama wrote: I am not convinced that a general purpose CPU, running other software in parallel, will be able to be timely and responsive enough to maximize bandwidth in an SSD controller without specialized hardware support. Fusion-io would seem to be a counter-example, since it use

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-03 Thread Frank Cusack
Since there's nothing I love better on a Sunday than a religious OT discussion: On January 2, 2010 8:51:25 PM -0500 Tim Cook wrote: On Saturday, January 2, 2010, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: Hardly any Apple users are complaining about the advanced filesytem they have already. That's a joke right

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-03 Thread Juergen Nickelsen
joerg.schill...@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) writes: > The netapps patents contain claims on ideas that I invented for my Diploma > thesis work between 1989 and 1991, so the netapps patents only describe prior > art. The new ideas introduced with "wofs" include the ideas on how to use CO

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-03 Thread Joerg Schilling
Tim Cook wrote: > On Saturday, January 2, 2010, Bob Friesenhahn > wrote: > > On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, David Magda wrote: > > > > > > Apple is (sadly?) probably developing their own new file system as well. > > > > > > I assume that you are talking about developing a filesystem design more > > suitab

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-03 Thread Joerg Schilling
David Magda wrote: > Apple is (sadly?) probably developing their own new file system as well. Well, I still don't understand Apple. Apple likes to get a grant for an indemnification for something that cannot happen in a country with a proper law system. The netapps patents contain claims on

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Tim Cook
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:45 PM, David Magda wrote: > On Jan 2, 2010, at 20:51, Tim Cook wrote: > > Apple users not complaining is more proof of them having >> not only drunk the koolaid but also bathed in it than them knowing any >> lImtations of what they have today. This coming from someone w

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread David Magda
On Jan 2, 2010, at 20:51, Tim Cook wrote: Apple users not complaining is more proof of them having not only drunk the koolaid but also bathed in it than them knowing any lImtations of what they have today. This coming from someone with a MacBook pro sitting in the other room. Apple users not

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Tim Cook
On Saturday, January 2, 2010, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, David Magda wrote: > > > Apple is (sadly?) probably developing their own new file system as well. > > > I assume that you are talking about developing a filesystem design more > suitable for the iNetbook and the iPhone? >

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010, David Magda wrote: Apple is (sadly?) probably developing their own new file system as well. I assume that you are talking about developing a filesystem design more suitable for the iNetbook and the iPhone? Hardly any Apple users are complaining about the advanced filesyt

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Al Hopper
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Tim Cook wrote: > > > On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Erik Trimble wrote: >> >> Bob Friesenhahn wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Al Hopper wrote: >>> Interesting article - rumor has it that this is the same controller that Seagate will use in its upcomi

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread David Magda
On Jan 2, 2010, at 19:44, Erik Trimble wrote: I do think the market is slight larger: Hitachi and EMC storage arrays/big SAN controllers, plus all Linux boxes once Brtfs actually matures enough to be usable. I don't see MSFT making any NTFS changes to help here, but they are doing some r

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Erik Trimble
Tim Cook wrote: While I'm sure to offend someone, it must be stated. That's not going to happen for the simple fact that there's all of two vendors that could utilize it, both niche (in relative terms). NetApp and Sun. Why would SSD MFG's waste their time building drives to sell for less m

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Tim Cook
On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Erik Trimble wrote: > Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > >> On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Al Hopper wrote: >> >> Interesting article - rumor has it that this is the same controller >>> that Seagate will use in its upcoming enterprise level SSDs: >>> >>> http://anandtech.com/storage/s

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Erik Trimble
Eric D. Mudama wrote: On Fri, Jan 1 at 21:21, Erik Trimble wrote: That all said, it certainly would be really nice to get a SSD controller which can really push the bandwidth, and the only way I see this happening now is to go the "stupid" route, and dumb down the controller as much as possib

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-02 Thread Eric D. Mudama
On Fri, Jan 1 at 21:21, Erik Trimble wrote: That all said, it certainly would be really nice to get a SSD controller which can really push the bandwidth, and the only way I see this happening now is to go the "stupid" route, and dumb down the controller as much as possible. I really think we

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-01 Thread Erik Trimble
Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Erik Trimble wrote: Maybe it's approaching time for vendors to just produce really stupid SSDs: that is, ones that just do wear-leveling, and expose their true page-size info (e.g. for MLC, how many blocks of X size have to be written at once) and t

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-01 Thread Richard Elling
On Jan 1, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Erik Trimble wrote: Maybe it's approaching time for vendors to just produce really stupid SSDs: that is, ones that just do wear-leveling, and expose their true page-size info (e.g. for MLC, how many blocks of X size h

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-01 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Erik Trimble wrote: Maybe it's approaching time for vendors to just produce really stupid SSDs: that is, ones that just do wear-leveling, and expose their true page-size info (e.g. for MLC, how many blocks of X size have to be written at once) and that's about it. Let fil

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-01 Thread Erik Trimble
Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Al Hopper wrote: Interesting article - rumor has it that this is the same controller that Seagate will use in its upcoming enterprise level SSDs: http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3702 It reads like SandForce has implemented a bunch of ZFS

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-01 Thread Richard Elling
On Jan 1, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Al Hopper wrote: Interesting article - rumor has it that this is the same controller that Seagate will use in its upcoming enterprise level SSDs: http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3702 It reads like SandForce

Re: [zfs-discuss] preview of new SSD based on SandForce controller

2010-01-01 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010, Al Hopper wrote: Interesting article - rumor has it that this is the same controller that Seagate will use in its upcoming enterprise level SSDs: http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3702 It reads like SandForce has implemented a bunch of ZFS like functionality in f