On 18/06/11 12:44 AM, Michael Sullivan wrote:
> ...
> Way off-topic, but Smalltalk and its variants do this by maintaining the
> state of everything in an operating environment image.
>
...Which is in memory, so things are rather different from the world of
filesystems.
--Toby
> But then again
On 17 Jun 11, at 21:02 , Ross Walker wrote:
> On Jun 16, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Erik Trimble wrote:
>
>> On 6/16/2011 1:32 PM, Paul Kraus wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Richard Elling
>>> wrote:
>>>
You can run OpenVMS :-)
>>> Since *you* brought it up (I was not going to :-), ho
On Jun 16, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Erik Trimble wrote:
> On 6/16/2011 1:32 PM, Paul Kraus wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Richard Elling
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can run OpenVMS :-)
>> Since *you* brought it up (I was not going to :-), how does VMS'
>> versioning FS handle those issues ?
>>
On 6/16/2011 1:32 PM, Paul Kraus wrote:
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Richard Elling
wrote:
You can run OpenVMS :-)
Since *you* brought it up (I was not going to :-), how does VMS'
versioning FS handle those issues ?
It doesn't, per se. VMS's filesystem has a "versioning" concept (i.e.
The OpenVMS filesystem is what you are looking for.
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
> On 06/16/2011 09:09 AM, Erik Trimble wrote:
>
>> We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago here, under the title "A
>> Versioning FS". Look through the archives for the full discus
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Richard Elling
wrote:
> You can run OpenVMS :-)
Since *you* brought it up (I was not going to :-), how does VMS'
versioning FS handle those issues ?
I know that SAM-FS has rules for _when_ copies of a file are made, so
that intermediate states are not captured.
On Jun 16, 2011, at 12:09 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
> On 06/16/2011 09:09 AM, Erik Trimble wrote:
>> We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago here, under the title "A
>> Versioning FS". Look through the archives for the full discussion.
>>
>> The jist is that application-level versioning
That said, losing committed transactions when you needed and thought
you had ACID semantics... is bad. But that's implied in any
restore-from-backups situation. So you replicate/distribute
transactions so that restore from backups (or snapshots) is an
absolutely last resort matter, and if you eve
On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 8:51 AM, wrote:
> If a database engine or another application keeps both the data and the
> log in the same filesystem, a snapshot wouldn't create inconsistent data
> (I think this would be true with vim and a large number of database
> engines; vim will detect the swap fi
>Op 15-06-11 05:56, Richard Elling schreef:
>> You can even have applications like databases make snapshots when
>> they want.
>
>Makes me think of a backup utility called mylvmbackup, which is written
>with Linux in mind - basically it locks mysql tables, takes an LVM
>snapshot and releases the l
Op 15-06-11 14:30, Simon Walter schreef:
> Anyone know how Google Docs does it?
Anyone from Google on the list? :-)
Seriously, this is the kind of feature to be found in Serious CMS
applications, like, as already mentioned, Alfresco.
--
No part of this copyright message may be reproduced, read
Op 15-06-11 05:56, Richard Elling schreef:
> You can even have applications like databases make snapshots when
> they want.
Makes me think of a backup utility called mylvmbackup, which is written
with Linux in mind - basically it locks mysql tables, takes an LVM
snapshot and releases the lock (and
On 16/06/11 3:09 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
> On 06/16/2011 09:09 AM, Erik Trimble wrote:
>> We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago here, under the
>> title "A Versioning FS". Look through the archives for the full
>> discussion.
>>
>> The jist is that application-level versioning (and cons
On 6/16/2011 12:09 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
On 06/16/2011 09:09 AM, Erik Trimble wrote:
We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago here, under the
title "A Versioning FS". Look through the archives for the full
discussion.
The jist is that application-level versioning (and consistency)
On 06/16/2011 09:09 AM, Erik Trimble wrote:
We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago here, under the
title "A Versioning FS". Look through the archives for the full
discussion.
The jist is that application-level versioning (and consistency) is
completely orthogonal to filesystem-leve
We had a similar discussion a couple of years ago here, under the title
"A Versioning FS". Look through the archives for the full discussion.
The jist is that application-level versioning (and consistency) is
completely orthogonal to filesystem-level snapshots and consistency.
IMHO, they shou
On 15/06/11 8:30 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
> On 06/15/2011 09:01 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
I know I've certainly had many situations where people wanted to
snapshot or
rev individual files everytime they're modified. As I said - perfect
example is Google Docs. Yes it is useful. But
On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:45 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
> On 06/15/11 12:29, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
>>> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling
>>>
>>> That would suck worse.
>>
>> Don't mind Richard. He is of the min
On Wed, Jun 15 at 7:29, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling
That would suck worse.
Don't mind Richard. He is of the mind that ZFS is perfect for everything
just the way it is, and anybody
> >> How you interpret "on every write" depends on where in the
> stack you are
> >> coming from. If you think about an application a
> "write" is whey you
> >> save the document but at the ZPL layer that is multiple
> write(2) calls
> >> and maybe even some rename(2)/unlink(2)/close(2) calls a
2011 14:48
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] question about COW and snapshots
To: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
> Thanks for the comments. So ZFS alone cannot do what I'd like.
>
> In linux there Gamin. Or there is also a kernel patch which
> gives you
> /proc/fschanges. I could monit
On 15.06.2011 14:30, Simon Walter wrote:
Another one is that snapshots are per-filesystem, while the intention
here is to capture a document in one user session. Taking a snapshot
will of course say nothing about the state of other user sessions. Any
document in the process of being saved by ano
On 06/15/2011 09:01 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
I know I've certainly had many situations where people wanted to
snapshot or
rev individual files everytime they're modified. As I said - perfect
example is Google Docs. Yes it is useful. But no, it's not what ZFS
does.
Exactly versions of a whole fil
On 06/15/2011 07:45 PM, Simon Walter wrote:
Thanks for the comments. So ZFS alone cannot do what I'd like.
In linux there Gamin. Or there is also a kernel patch which gives you
/proc/fschanges. I could monitor this file for changes and take a
snapshot when a change occurs or under certain circ
On 15/06/11 7:45 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
> On 06/15/11 12:29, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>>> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
>>> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling
>>>
>>> That would suck worse.
>>
>> Don't mind Richard. He is of the mind that ZFS
On 06/15/11 12:29, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling
That would suck worse.
Don't mind Richard. He is of the mind that ZFS is perfect for everything
just the way it is, and anybody who w
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Richard Elling
>
> That would suck worse.
Don't mind Richard. He is of the mind that ZFS is perfect for everything
just the way it is, and anybody who wants anything different should adjust
t
Thanks for the comments. So ZFS alone cannot do what I'd like.
In linux there Gamin. Or there is also a kernel patch which gives you
/proc/fschanges. I could monitor this file for changes and take a
snapshot when a change occurs or under certain circumstances. However,
the Linux COW type FS ar
On 06/15/2011 12:56 PM, Richard Elling wrote:
So now my (ignorant) question: can ZFS make a snapshot every time it's written
to?
I hope not, that would suck most heinously.
Can all writes be available as snapshots so all previous "versions" are
available?
That would suck worse.
Why would
On Jun 14, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
> I'm looking to create a NAS with versioning for non-technical users (Windows
> and Mac). I want the users to be able to simply save a file, and a
> revision/snapshot is created. I could use a revision control software like
> SVN (it has autove
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Simon Walter
>
> I'm looking to create a NAS with versioning for non-technical users
> (Windows and Mac). I want the users to be able to simply save a file,
> and a revision/snapshot is created
I'm looking to create a NAS with versioning for non-technical users
(Windows and Mac). I want the users to be able to simply save a file,
and a revision/snapshot is created. I could use a revision control
software like SVN (it has autoversioning with WebDAV), and I will if
this filesystem level
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