Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

>> Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? > > I’m a bit baffled what gave you that idea after I’ve spent days arguing for > strict build/runtime separation? > > I was just trying to figure out where you were having this problem: > > > ZFS and apt-get + lots of files in a

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Clayton Daley wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:08 AM, Hynek Schlawack > wrote: > >> Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? > > I’m a bit baffled what gave you that idea after I’ve spent days arguing for > strict buil

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

Hi Clayton, On February 27, 2017 at 6:07:14 PM, Clayton Daley (clayton.da...@gmail.com) wrote: [SNIP] Obviously Glyph couldn't answer this question so his interjection came off as condescendingly unhelpful.  Perhaps it's not an impression he deserves, but he got off to a horrible start when

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:08 AM, Hynek Schlawack wrote: > > Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? > > > I’m a bit baffled what gave you that idea after I’ve spent days arguing > for strict build/runtime separation? > I was just trying to figure out where you were having th

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? I’m a bit baffled what gave you that idea after I’ve spent days arguing for strict build/runtime separation? > We use Docker extensively, but our build machine makes images that we push to > Dockerhub (private repos). This has a

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 25, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Clayton Daley wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz > wrote: > >> On Feb 25, 2017, at 9:03 AM, Clayton Daley > > wrote: >> >> Are you talking about building Docker containers o

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > On Feb 25, 2017, at 9:03 AM, Clayton Daley > wrote: > > Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? > > > Pretty sure Hynek has proper build-server/production separation. > Pretty sure Hynek can speak for himself.

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 25, 2017, at 9:03 AM, Clayton Daley wrote: > > Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? Pretty sure Hynek has proper build-server/production separation. > We use Docker extensively, but our build machine makes images that we push to > Dockerhub (private repos). T

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

Are you talking about building Docker containers on the fly? We use Docker extensively, but our build machine makes images that we push to Dockerhub (private repos). This has a lot of advantages: - Our images (on the hub) are effectively pinned at the version they were built - Our test

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> ... Contrary I’m not a super fan of having one opaque blob on server; the > transparent structure of a virtualenv is something I learned to appreciate. > ... > > A zipfile containing a virtualenv (pex) isn't all that opaque -- with the > right editor plugins, you can even *cough* edit the c

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 24 February 2017 at 10:25, Hynek Schlawack wrote: > > ... Contrary I’m not a super fan of having one opaque blob on server; the > transparent structure of a virtualenv is something I learned to appreciate. > ... > A zipfile containing a virtualenv (pex) isn't all that opaque -- with the right

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

Honestly, in the years I’ve been running Python services of different sizes, I have found that distro-provided system packages – unless you are writing software *for* a distribution – are loaded with so many downsides that they’re almost never worth it. They’re a shortcut and shortcuts usually

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> >> I'm trying to point out that *some* might find the system Python attractive >> because they can use OS-supplied python packages in lieu of the effort of >> setting up a binary build infrastructure. > > So, I think everyone has a different perspective here; Hynek seems to be > saying "all

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 4:04 AM, James Broadhead wrote: > > On 23 February 2017 at 08:36, Glyph Lefkowitz > wrote: > > Go's build toolchain has many features worth envying but most of its > advantages have to do with deployments _outside_ of containers, where you

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 2:51 AM, Phil Mayers wrote: > > On 23/02/17 10:27, Hynek Schlawack wrote: > >> What I don't quite understand is how people can be in love with Go’s >> static linking but complaining about Virtualenvs in deployments. >> Unwieldy as virtualenvs are: *for Python code* they ar

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 23, 2017, at 4:12 AM, Phil Mayers wrote: > > On 23/02/17 09:11, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > >> Yes, and building these binary artifacts is often harder than some >> people (cough, alpine, cough) seem to think. But there are better ways >> to square this circle than restricting yourself t

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 23/02/17 09:11, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: Yes, and building these binary artifacts is often harder than some people (cough, alpine, cough) seem to think. But there are better ways to square this circle than restricting yourself to the versions of /python/ libraries that happen to be available i

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 23 February 2017 at 08:36, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > > Go's build toolchain has many features worth envying but most of its > advantages have to do with deployments _outside_ of containers, where you > have to ship to customer environments with fraught and unknown system > configurations. If

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 23/02/17 10:27, Hynek Schlawack wrote: What I don't quite understand is how people can be in love with Go’s static linking but complaining about Virtualenvs in deployments. Unwieldy as virtualenvs are: *for Python code* they are exactly that: statically linked build artifacts. The principles

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> As a very simple example: if you have a traditional (non-container) Linux > system hosting a Python application in a virtualenv, and you deploy a Python > app to a virtualenv e.g. using Puppet or Ansible, you either need to: > > 1. Use no C extensions > 2. Hope there's a manylinux1 binary whee

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

I don’t see how that’s tedious since a compute does that for me. Although I don’t see any value at wheeling them (and some packages cannot be wheeled); my CI builds a venv and puts it into a container. There’s nothing tedious about it at all. >>> I find the idea of running throw

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 10:16 AM, Phil Mayers wrote: > > On 22/02/17 17:42, Hynek Schlawack wrote: > >> I have to disagree here: I don’t want build tools of any kind in my >> final containers therefore I build my artifacts separately no matter >> what language. Of course you can just build the

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 9:42 AM, Hynek Schlawack wrote: > >>> I don’t see how that’s tedious since a compute does that for me. >>> Although I don’t see any value at wheeling them (and some packages >>> cannot be wheeled); my CI builds a venv and puts it into a container. >>> There’s nothing tediou

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Steve Waterbury wrote: > > On 02/22/2017 12:23 PM, Phil Mayers wrote: >> On 22/02/17 15:00, Steve Waterbury wrote: >> >>> Have you considered the 'conda' package manager? >> >> I've never come across it. It looks too big for me to give a quick >> opinion on, but

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Phil Mayers wrote: > > On 22/02/17 13:06, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote: > >> Ah! They are now, maybe you haven't seen them? >> >> Check out https://github.com/pypa/manylinux and >> https://github.com/pypa/python-manylinux-demo > > I had not seen this. Thanks, this

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 20:59, Cory Benfield wrote: The permitted C dependencies *for dynamic linking* are tiny, sure. But those libraries may statically link as they please. The likely scenario for most such packages is that they statically link whatever they need. This is the approach taken by some that I

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On 22 Feb 2017, at 18:16, Phil Mayers wrote: > > #2 seems useful now that I know about it but - correct me if I'm wrong - the > manylinux1 permitted C dependencies are super-tiny, and would not permit e.g. > cryptography or psycopg2? Depends. The permitted C dependencies *for dynamic linki

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 17:42, Hynek Schlawack wrote: I have to disagree here: I don’t want build tools of any kind in my final containers therefore I build my artifacts separately no matter what language. Of course you can just build the venv on your build Agreed, 100%. Apologies if I gave you the impr

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 17:35, Steve Waterbury wrote: On 02/22/2017 12:23 PM, Phil Mayers wrote: On 22/02/17 15:00, Steve Waterbury wrote: Have you considered the 'conda' package manager? I've never come across it. It looks too big for me to give a quick opinion on, but I'll bear it in mind. Thanks for

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

>> I don’t see how that’s tedious since a compute does that for me. >> Although I don’t see any value at wheeling them (and some packages >> cannot be wheeled); my CI builds a venv and puts it into a container. >> There’s nothing tedious about it at all. > I find the idea of running throwaway envir

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

>>> So my problem is that while my protocol stack spins up very nicely and >>> trivially easy using the twistd daemon, the standard python3-twisted >>> package for 14.04 is wy behind and doesn't include twistd (!), and I >>> haven't found a good backport. I'd also like to avoid doing thing

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 02/22/2017 12:23 PM, Phil Mayers wrote: On 22/02/17 15:00, Steve Waterbury wrote: Have you considered the 'conda' package manager? I've never come across it. It looks too big for me to give a quick opinion on, but I'll bear it in mind. Thanks for the pointer. "Anaconda" is huge; conda is

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 15:00, Steve Waterbury wrote: Have you considered the 'conda' package manager? I've never come across it. It looks too big for me to give a quick opinion on, but I'll bear it in mind. Thanks for the pointer. ___ Twisted-Python mailing

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 13:06, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote: Ah! They are now, maybe you haven't seen them? Check out https://github.com/pypa/manylinux and https://github.com/pypa/python-manylinux-demo I had not seen this. Thanks, this looks like a big leap forward. A lot of people seem to be thinking th

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 12:49, Hynek Schlawack wrote: That’s why you should use a build server and not ship build environments. Which we do. I don’t see how that’s tedious since a compute does that for me. Although I don’t see any value at wheeling them (and some packages cannot be wheeled); my CI build

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> >> So my problem is that while my protocol stack spins up very nicely and >> trivially easy using the twistd daemon, the standard python3-twisted package >> for 14.04 is wy behind and doesn't include twistd (!), and I haven't >> found a good backport. I'd also like to avoid doing things

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 02/22/2017 07:08 AM, Phil Mayers wrote: On 22/02/17 11:12, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: I'm tempted to launch into a diatribe about namespacing, containers, and application isolation generally, but before I do - why is it that you /want/ to use the system Python environment? Had you just not cons

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 7:08 AM, Phil Mayers wrote: > On 22/02/17 11:12, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: > > I'm tempted to launch into a diatribe about namespacing, containers, and >> application isolation generally, but before I do - why is it that you >> /want/ to use the system Python environment? Ha

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

>> I'm tempted to launch into a diatribe about namespacing, containers, and >> application isolation generally, but before I do - why is it that you >> /want/ to use the system Python environment? Had you just not >> considered the option of virtual environments? > Awesome though it is, virtualen

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

On 22/02/17 11:12, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote: I'm tempted to launch into a diatribe about namespacing, containers, and application isolation generally, but before I do - why is it that you /want/ to use the system Python environment? Had you just not considered the option of virtual environments?

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

i could be totally wrong, and please correct me if i am, but try this: target: this will give you a current twisted / python installation and keep the packages seperate from the system ones # 1. install a package called virtualenv and pip on your system apt install virtualenv pip # 2. create a

Re: [Twisted-Python] Python3 twistd daemon for Ubuntu 14.04 alternatives

> On Feb 21, 2017, at 9:28 AM, Dave Curtis wrote: > > Hi, so for my first post to the list I am going to ask a somewhat lame > question. Apologies if this is not the right list -- clues welcome. This is totally the right list. All discussion of Twisted is welcome! > So my problem is that wh