Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

> On Oct 14, 2019, at 4:31 PM, Peter Elderson wrote: > > I imagine mtb maps showing all kinds of mtb-trails except The Big One that > everybody knows. If I were an MTB'ist, I would probably disxcard OSM as > unusable, because it doesn't even give the biggest MTB-route on the planet! To be cle

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 14/10/2019 14:50, Dave F via Tagging wrote: PS Can anyone explain what an " academic member" is? Just found out it was a spell-correct typo. Volker is an ACA member DaveF ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstr

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 14/10/2019 00:17, Warin wrote: On 14/10/19 07:26, Volker Schmidt wrote: (disclosure: I am academic member, but express my personal view) The Great Divide route is, to my knowledge, not signposted. The source for thr route is most likely either a GPX track from ACA or a map set from ACA,  wh

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

brad wrote: > There are several variations and gpx tracks available on the net for > the great divide route.   There are also many websites which > discuss the route and show maps.   It's in the public domain. It is only "public domain" (US usage) if the creators have disclaimed all copyright in

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

I compare it with the Via Francigena in Italy. That route is very well signposted, but even if it were not, you would see signs of its existence and importance in road names, milestones, names and signs of dwellings and café's along the way. There are self-registration points on the way, resting pl

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 14/10/19 18:28, Peter Elderson wrote: brad: There are several variations and gpx tracks available on the net for the great divide route. There are also many websites which discuss the route and show maps.   It's in the public domain. I've looked at the info for the Great Divide

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

brad: > There are several variations and gpx tracks available on the net for the > great divide route. There are also many websites which discuss the route > and show maps. It's in the public domain. > > I've looked at the info for the Great Divide MTB-trail without any prior knowledge. On the

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

There are several variations and gpx tracks available on the net for the great divide route.   There are also many websites which discuss the route and show maps.   It's in the public domain. On 10/13/19 2:26 PM, Volker Schmidt wrote: (disclosure: I am academic member, but express my personal

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 14/10/19 07:26, Volker Schmidt wrote: (disclosure: I am academic member, but express my personal view) The Great Divide route is, to my knowledge, not signposted. The source for thr route is most likely either a GPX track from ACA or a map set from ACA,  which has their copyright on it. aca

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

(disclosure: I am academic member, but express my personal view) The Great Divide route is, to my knowledge, not signposted. The source for thr route is most likely either a GPX track from ACA or a map set from ACA, which has their copyright on it. aca sells the GPX track and the map. For these re

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

I'm in favor of being flexible for cycling routes.   A good example is the great divide mtb route in Canada & US.   It is probably not signed very well, if at all.   It was created by a non-profit & I don't think it is an official government route.   It is used by quite a few people, both on bi

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

> This can be handled by looking at  > roads/cycleways building relation, > right? Not really, the good metrics here would rather be the traffic (amount of traffic, type of motor vehicles, destination) rather than the underlying infrastructure and OSM at the moment has no such tagging possibility.

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 12/10/19 20:13, John Willis via Tagging wrote: On Oct 12, 2019, at 5:10 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: A new route_type= tag on the relation would be a good way to go. Route= cycle_touring road_touring cyclist road_cyclist road_cycling ? I think the word “race” should be left out, unless

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Netherlands usage is: the route must have some physical representation on the roads. Preferably waymarked all the way. But long routes tend to use local/regional/national sections as parts, so the waymarking does not have to be the same everywhere. Also, some routes are scarcely or even barely s

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On Oct 12, 2019, at 5:10 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: A new route_type= tag on the relation would be a good way to go. Route= cycle_touring road_touring cyclist road_cyclist road_cycling ? I think the word “race” should be left out, unless it is for mapping actual racing routes. Javbw _

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Phyks wrote: > * Some are dedicated to a very particular category of cyclists, > often racing bikes. We have `route=mtb` for mountain bikes, > we might have `route=racing_bikes` for racing bikes? Typical > example is https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/163266 > (which might actually fall int

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

11 Oct 2019, 18:28 by ph...@phyks.me: > with varying quality of > infrastructure but always a legal status. See for instance > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2246847 (very bad infrastructure, > but official signs in the streets) or > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6445738 (tourist

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

12 Oct 2019, 04:27 by tagging@openstreetmap.org: > > > >> On Oct 12, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Phyks <>> ph...@phyks.me >> >> > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too >> broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a re

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

> On Oct 12, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Phyks wrote: > > Hi, > > I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too > broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a rendering > perspective (disclaimer: I'm one of the maintainer of the new CyclOSM > rendering style, https://cycl

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 12/10/19 03:28, Phyks wrote: Hi, I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a rendering perspective (disclaimer: I'm one of the maintainer of the new CyclOSM rendering style, https://cyclosm.org), it is very often a

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Hi, I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a rendering perspective (disclaimer: I'm one of the maintainer of the new CyclOSM rendering style, https://cyclosm.org), it is very often a nightmare to try to figure out wh

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 11/10/2019 12:51, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 11 Oct 2019, 12:37 by rich...@systemed.net (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise unsuitable.) Can you list made-up lines

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

> On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:52 PM, Mateusz Konieczny > wrote: > > Can anyone make a route relation for any Way regardless if it is actually a > designated oute by a city, signed, or publically documented? > Such tagging for rendering happens > but is incorrect and should be deleted. This is what m

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

11 Oct 2019, 12:18 by tagging@openstreetmap.org: > > Is there something Im not understanding? Can anyone make a route relation for > any Way regardless if it is actually a designated oute by a city, signed, or > publically documented? > Such tagging for rendering happens but is incorrect and sh

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

11 Oct 2019, 12:37 by rich...@systemed.net > (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing > codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise > unsuitable.) > Can you list made-up lines that pollute OSM?

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Are you able to properly verify these are all "Random road your cycling club likes to ride on the weekend" & not designated/signed routes? ATM it appears you're vetting them purely on the class of highway used. Designated cycle routes can go along "just regular roads, with no designation for c

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > wouldn't it be better to delete them from OSM if they are made up? It would, but I have limited hours in the day to police every single cycle route relation in OSM. I lose track of the amount of time I spent on user messages and changeset comments trying to get the Gr

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:38 Uhr schrieb Richard Fairhurst < rich...@systemed.net>: > (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing > codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise > unsuitable.) wouldn't it be better to delete them from OSM

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

John Willis wrote: > I want to delete these fake “mountain workout” relations that > should be mapped in strava or a similar workout app. Fully agree. Go for it. OSM is for verifiable, signposted cycle routes and verifiable, real cycling infrastructure. If a route is on the way to being signpos

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Am I misunderstanding something fundamental? Mapping cycle route relations Sounds a lot like mapping bus routes: mapping the designated routes of existing public/private routes seems to be useful - mapping where you like to drive your RV around With a bus route relation and inter-mixing that in

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 11/10/19 18:04, John Willis via Tagging wrote: Questions about using cycle relations properly: I am mapping and repairing cycle roads in the Kanto/Tokyo area. There are a lot of designated cycling roads that follow a long rivers and other water features out into the countryside, making up a

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Have you discussed this with the individual mappers via changeset messages or on a Japanese forum/mailing list? Joseph On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 4:12 PM John Willis via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Questions about using cycle relations properly: > > I am mapping and repairing cycl

[Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Questions about using cycle relations properly: I am mapping and repairing cycle roads in the Kanto/Tokyo area. There are a lot of designated cycling roads that follow a long rivers and other water features out into the countryside, making up a regional system, and a lot of smaller local cyclin