Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread Walt Ratterman
Hello all, While this may be excellent advice, I think it would be good to clarify that this may apply primarily to grid tied systems. In Off Grid systems we have different considerations, such as (a) we are working with lower voltages and need to limit the size of the wire and the vol

Re: [RE-wrenches] inverter sizing and microinverters

2009-12-20 Thread frenergy
Lee, It possibly sounds like two inverters to me. You also need to factor in whether or not the PVs will benefit from the reflection of that bright sun you're enjoying there from snow. So, is it ground mount or roof mount, angle of PVs (the shallower the angle, the less benfit from s

Re: [RE-wrenches] low voltage disconnect

2009-12-20 Thread Richard L Ratico
Lee, The Sunny Island will shut down entirely to protect the batteries. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: Wrenches. I have a customer with a stand-alone system with an XW inverter, XW controller, pole mounted array of four 235-watt panels, and 4 of the 8D gel batterie

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread Richard L Ratico
William, It is common in our area to install underground, unfused, transformer secondary laterals. The utilities require 3 feet of cover and marker tape located 12" below grade. I can't find a requirement for marker tape in the NEC. That's not a reason not to use it. It's inexpensive & available

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread Matt Lafferty
William, Put the inverters at the array. Run the AC underground. If the AC feeder gets dug up by some rowdy backhoe operator in the future, the breaker (or series of breakers) will open, de-energizing the circuit immediately (and maybe the main to the residence at the same time). If you are dea

[RE-wrenches] low voltage disconnect

2009-12-20 Thread Solar Plexus
Wrenches. I have a customer with a stand-alone system with an XW inverter, XW controller, pole mounted array of four 235-watt panels, and 4 of the 8D gel batteries. He uses the system mostly on weekends. Winter came, the solar array was still set at about 30°, a snowstorm covered th

[RE-wrenches] inverter sizing and microinverters

2009-12-20 Thread Solar Plexus
Wrenches. I need some help on inverter sizing. In Montana we have a lot of cold weather with bright sun. What about the following With an array of 50 panels at 235-watts, I would select an 11.4 KW string inverter. The string sizing chart says the 11.4 KW inverter would be fine, bu

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread Bill Brooks
William, I'm not sure what the struggle is about here. If you have a combiner box, you should always have a disconnect nearby to service the fuses. The 2011 NEC will require such a disconnect. It is a no-brainer on a ground mounted system. A roof-mounted residential system of 4 strings or less

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread ryan
I to agree it is nice to have a disconnect means at the pv array. I worry that touch safe fuses may give some one the wrong idea as they are not safe to open under load. they will catch on fire. I like the combiner with disconnect idea and I know there is a Huge player in the combiner market th

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread William Miller
Dick: We are gong to install HU361 disconnects at the PV. Touch-safe fuse holders are one way to apply disconnecting means rated at 600 VDC to a Sola Deck device. Fusing at an array and GFDI at an inverter do not de-energize PV feeders. Combiner fuses, if required, protect only adjacent arra

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread Glenn Burt
We have been looking at the Blue Oak line of fused combiners/load break rated DC disconnects, but can't get the right fit / cost. Maybe a couple would do the trick at the array for you? -Glenn Burt _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wr

Re: [RE-wrenches] solar hot water nighttime recirc

2009-12-20 Thread Conrad Geyser
We use chrome oxide collectors exclusively. What I'm getting at is that the system will satisfactorily self regulate. Just from all the combined parasitic losses, a typical flat plate system will top out around 180F max.tank temp. in an average summer climate even without nighttime heat dumpi

Re: [RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread Richard L Ratico
William, Not sure I understand how buried PV runs protected by touchsafe fuses in combiner boxes at the array and GFCI protection at the inverters constitute a fire hazard. That's not saying I disagree with your disconnect here. I don't. If it was a 1kW system, would you still install one? I would

Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.31E (through a building)

2009-12-20 Thread Richard L Ratico
An inspector can bump absolutely anything. That doesn't mean they've correctly interpreted the code or made a decision that increases electrical safety, only that they have the authority to call it anyway they like. What constitutes a long DC circuit in a building? Ten feet, fifty feet? What if it

[RE-wrenches] DC disconnect placement

2009-12-20 Thread William Miller
Friends: I am embarking on a 10 Kw ground mount grid-tie installation. The client prepared for this installation some time ago by stubbing a PVC conduit underground towards the future location of the PV array. Prior to beginning this job, an excavation contractor intercepted the empty condui

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification

2009-12-20 Thread William Korthof
I'm not going to say that the requirement makes very much sense, but yes---the PE does test and approve the system in these situations. Testing is up to the PE, and typically uses highly advanced testing facilities; which might include things like a volt meter and clamp-on ammeter for those espec

Re: [RE-wrenches] 690.31E (through a building)

2009-12-20 Thread Joel Davidson
Regarding the DC disconnect, the 2008 Handbook 690.14C(1) comments, "These requirements generally prohibit long runs of PV source and input circuits inside a building before reaching the required PV disconnect. A short conductor run through a wall at the point of first penetration to reach a dis

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification

2009-12-20 Thread Joel Davidson
William, What about the "tested and approved" requirement? Does your PE also test and approve the system? Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: "William Korthof" To: Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar System Certification Yes, Yorba Lin