On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:07:13 -0200
Glauber Costa wrote:
> >>
> >> Spice is a library, it is library for remote display, it handle by
> >> itself all the connection between the spice client to the host that
> >> run the guest, it include:
> >> sound, display, keyboard, usb, network tunneling (for
Gerd Hoffmann wrote:
Hi,
Well, in fact VNC would wait for the refresh timer of the VGA
framebuffer dirty thing and only send a single update too.
Well, it isn't that simple. When copyrect is used updates can be
*much* more frequently. Reason is that the vnc server has to push out
outsta
Hi,
Well, in fact VNC would wait for the refresh timer of the VGA
framebuffer dirty thing and only send a single update too.
Well, it isn't that simple. When copyrect is used updates can be *much*
more frequently. Reason is that the vnc server has to push out
outstanding dirty regions be
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:26:59 +0200
Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:53:25 +0300 (MSK)
> malc wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:24:38 +0300 (MSK)
> > > malc wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> > > >
> > >
Chris Wright wrote:
* Anthony Liguori (anth...@codemonkey.ws) wrote:
Izik Eidus wrote:
Ok, I guess you think VDI-interfaces are doing much more than they do
in reiality.
It is just simple interface to Allow Spice / VNC / whatever not have to
de-duplicate code in order to get informatio
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:08:05 +0100
Alexander Graf wrote:
> So the thing I dislike is the "take all of QXL and SPICE or leave
> everything" sort of attitude that's coming over. I'd love to use QXL,
> but I don't want to use SPICE :-). Thus I want to make sure we're
> going in a really modular dire
On 12.12.2009, at 01:53, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:27:09 +0100
> Alexander Graf wrote:
>
>>
>> On 12.12.2009, at 01:14, Izik Eidus wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:54:47 +0100
>>> Alexander Graf wrote:
>>>
On 11.12.2009, at 23:46, Izik Eidus wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:27:09 +0100
Alexander Graf wrote:
>
> On 12.12.2009, at 01:14, Izik Eidus wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:54:47 +0100
> > Alexander Graf wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 11.12.2009, at 23:46, Izik Eidus wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:08:01 +0100
> >>> Alexander G
On 12.12.2009, at 01:14, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:54:47 +0100
> Alexander Graf wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11.12.2009, at 23:46, Izik Eidus wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:08:01 +0100
>>> Alexander Graf wrote:
>>>
On 11.12.2009, at 22:13, Izik Eidus wrote:
On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 00:54:47 +0100
Alexander Graf wrote:
>
> On 11.12.2009, at 23:46, Izik Eidus wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:08:01 +0100
> > Alexander Graf wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 11.12.2009, at 22:13, Izik Eidus wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:46:55 -0600
> >>> Anthony Lig
On 11.12.2009, at 23:46, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:08:01 +0100
> Alexander Graf wrote:
>
>>
>> On 11.12.2009, at 22:13, Izik Eidus wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:46:55 -0600
>>> Anthony Liguori wrote:
>>>
Izik Eidus wrote:
> I personaly dont like mjpeg, and y
* Anthony Liguori (anth...@codemonkey.ws) wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
>> Ok, I guess you think VDI-interfaces are doing much more than they do
>> in reiality.
>>
>> It is just simple interface to Allow Spice / VNC / whatever not have to
>> de-duplicate code in order to get information from - lets sa
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 23:08:01 +0100
Alexander Graf wrote:
>
> On 11.12.2009, at 22:13, Izik Eidus wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:46:55 -0600
> > Anthony Liguori wrote:
> >
> >> Izik Eidus wrote:
> >>> I personaly dont like mjpeg, and yes in the end of the day you can
> >>> add the video s
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:54:52 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> By the time we get to video memory, the display server has
> already straightened out what portions of the screen are visible
> and what aren't. It will not render a hidden window and then
> rende
On 12/12/2009 12:08 AM, Alexander Graf wrote:
On 11.12.2009, at 22:13, Izik Eidus wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:46:55 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
Izik Eidus wrote:
I personaly dont like mjpeg, and yes in the end of the day you can
add the video streaming into vnc, but what is the point he
On 11.12.2009, at 22:13, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:46:55 -0600
> Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
>> Izik Eidus wrote:
>>> I personaly dont like mjpeg, and yes in the end of the day you can
>>> add the video streaming into vnc, but what is the point here?
>>>
>>
>> What I'm trying to
Izik Eidus wrote:
Ok, I guess you think VDI-interfaces are doing much more than they do
in reiality.
It is just simple interface to Allow Spice / VNC / whatever not have to
de-duplicate code in order to get information from - lets say the
keyboard
Is it really diffrence from any other funct
Izik Eidus wrote:
By the time we get to video memory, the display server has already
straightened out what portions of the screen are visible and what
aren't. It will not render a hidden window and then render
another window on top of it.
I dont understand, if you have applciati
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:48:53 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:51:53 -0600
> > Anthony Liguori wrote:
> >
> >
> >> libc is not a plugin. It implements very well defined behaviors
> >> that have well understood behaviors. Also, glibc generally does
>
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:46:55 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> > I personaly dont like mjpeg, and yes in the end of the day you can
> > add the video streaming into vnc, but what is the point here?
> >
>
> What I'm trying to understand is, what can we do with Spice that we
>
Izik Eidus wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:51:53 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
libc is not a plugin. It implements very well defined behaviors that
have well understood behaviors. Also, glibc generally does not crash
:-) I would not want a user to replace glibc with a different libc.
Izik Eidus wrote:
I personaly dont like mjpeg, and yes in the end of the day you can add
the video streaming into vnc, but what is the point here?
What I'm trying to understand is, what can we do with Spice that we
couldn't possibly do with vnc. That means understanding each feature
and t
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:51:53 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> libc is not a plugin. It implements very well defined behaviors that
> have well understood behaviors. Also, glibc generally does not crash
> :-) I would not want a user to replace glibc with a different libc.
I think it problomati
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:53:25 +0300 (MSK)
malc wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:24:38 +0300 (MSK)
> > malc wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:03:33 +0300 (MSK)
> > > > malc wrote:
> > > >
>
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:51:53 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:30:22 -0600
> > Anthony Liguori wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Izik Eidus wrote:
> >>
> >>> I should speek with the marketing guys, will be able to answer on
> >>> that specific question in few
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:24:38 +0300 (MSK)
> malc wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:03:33 +0300 (MSK)
> > > malc wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 11
Mark McLoughlin wrote:
I don't doubt there are challenges.
I think your requirement that old clients work with new servers and new
clients work with old servers is a good one. Maybe extending VNC is the
best way to get there, but it should be recognized there is another way
of achieving the same
Izik Eidus wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:30:22 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
Izik Eidus wrote:
I should speek with the marketing guys, will be able to answer on
that specific question in few days.
But simple 2D Commands are just not enougth for spice.
We have multiple drawing surface
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 13:38 -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Mark McLoughlin wrote:
> > On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 13:04 -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> >
> >> But to introduce another protocol where a user has to make a choice to
> >> use Spice over VNC, I think we need a really good justification f
* Glauber Costa (glom...@gmail.com) wrote:
> >
> > But to introduce another protocol where a user has to make a choice to use
> > Spice over VNC, I think we need a really good justification for that. It's
> > really about complexity. A user shouldn't have to know about Spice or VNC.
> > They sho
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:30:22 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> > I should speek with the marketing guys, will be able to answer on
> > that specific question in few days.
> >
> >
> > But simple 2D Commands are just not enougth for spice.
> > We have multiple drawing surfaces, tha
Mark McLoughlin wrote:
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 13:04 -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote:
But to introduce another protocol where a user has to make a choice to
use Spice over VNC, I think we need a really good justification for
that. It's really about complexity. A user shouldn't have to know
abo
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:06:47 -0600
> Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
>> Izik Eidus wrote:
>> > I want to add that qemu is not the sole user of spice, Spice will be
>> > used as a protocol to connect into physical windows/linux
>> > machines
>> >
>
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:24:38 +0300 (MSK)
malc wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:03:33 +0300 (MSK)
> > malc wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
> > > > Anthony Liguori wrote:
> > >
Izik Eidus wrote:
I should speek with the marketing guys, will be able to answer on that
specific question in few days.
But simple 2D Commands are just not enougth for spice.
We have multiple drawing surfaces, that are depended on each other.
We Dont renender untill the very moment that the gue
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:15:02 -0200
Glauber Costa wrote:
> >
> > But to introduce another protocol where a user has to make a choice
> > to use Spice over VNC, I think we need a really good justification
> > for that. It's really about complexity. A user shouldn't have to
> > know about Spice or
On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 13:04 -0600, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> But to introduce another protocol where a user has to make a choice to
> use Spice over VNC, I think we need a really good justification for
> that. It's really about complexity. A user shouldn't have to know
> about Spice or VNC. Th
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:03:33 +0300 (MSK)
> malc wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
> > > Anthony Liguori wrote:
> > >
> > [..snip..]
> >
> > >
[..snip..]
> >
> > Any particular reason f
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:07:13 -0200
Glauber Costa wrote:
> >>
> >> Spice is a library, it is library for remote display, it handle by
> >> itself all the connection between the spice client to the host that
> >> run the guest, it include:
> >> sound, display, keyboard, usb, network tunneling (for
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:06:47 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> > I want to add that qemu is not the sole user of spice, Spice will be
> > used as a protocol to connect into physical windows/linux
> > machines
> >
> > So how can we change the library just for qemu?
> >
> A
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:04:02 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Hi Izik,
>
> Thanks for the explanation.
>
> Izik Eidus wrote:
> >> So from a protocol perspective, what are the advantages of Spice
> >> over VNC?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Spice desgien is highly diffrence than VNC
> > The first thing ab
>
> But to introduce another protocol where a user has to make a choice to use
> Spice over VNC, I think we need a really good justification for that. It's
> really about complexity. A user shouldn't have to know about Spice or VNC.
> They shouldn't have to contemplate the trade-offs of whether
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:03:33 +0300 (MSK)
malc wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
> > Anthony Liguori wrote:
> >
> [..snip..]
>
> >
> > Spice desgien is highly diffrence than VNC
> > The first thing about spice is that it isnt just a frame
>> I think we should allow freedom of choice to the users to decide what
>> protcol they want to use, Spice and VNC are all diffrent and were born
>> to meet diffrent goals.
>>
>> I would happy to answer more questions if anyone have
>
> I think the simple point is that, AFAICS, the spice folks are
>>
>> Spice is a library, it is library for remote display, it handle by
>> itself all the connection between the spice client to the host that
>> run the guest, it include:
>> sound, display, keyboard, usb, network tunneling (for printers) and so
>> on...
>>
>
> I want to add that qemu is not the
Izik Eidus wrote:
I want to add that qemu is not the sole user of spice, Spice will be
used as a protocol to connect into physical windows/linux machines
So how can we change the library just for qemu?
A library is not necessarily a problem.
What would be a probably is if the library ma
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:57:17 +
Ben Taylor wrote:
> I think the simple point is that, AFAICS, the spice folks are
> expecting the qemu team to integrate their big ugly tarball, instead
> of doing what everyone else does, which is forward port everything to
> current head and then provide a cur
Hi Izik,
Thanks for the explanation.
Izik Eidus wrote:
So from a protocol perspective, what are the advantages of Spice over
VNC?
Spice desgien is highly diffrence than VNC
The first thing about spice is that it isnt just a framebuffer drawing
and not a bitmaps protocol.
Spice protocl
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
> Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
[..snip..]
>
> Spice desgien is highly diffrence than VNC
> The first thing about spice is that it isnt just a framebuffer drawing
> and not a bitmaps protocol.
>
> Spice protocl support mul
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:48:28 +0200
Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
> Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
> > Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Spice project is now open, for more information visit
> > > http://spice-space.org, due to a server relocation the site will
> > > be
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 6:48 PM, Izik Eidus wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
> Anthony Liguori wrote:
>
>> Yaniv Kamay wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > Spice project is now open, for more information visit
>> > http://spice-space.org, due to a server relocation the site will be
>> > down duri
>> It already has. It's not a git tree with staged patches. It's a
>> tarball release of a really old version of kvm-userspace that's called
>>
>> 'vdesktop'.
>
>
> This guy is evil and he is motivate by personal agenda. I hope you all will
> wakeup.
>
I don't see anthony with any specific agend
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:57:48 -0600
Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Spice project is now open, for more information visit
> > http://spice-space.org, due to a server relocation the site will be
> > down during this weekend.
> >
> > Spice ship patched QEMU based on fairl
Hi,
On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> > I'm not getting into this discussion and is not going to happen, you
> > have all the necessary information on spiec-space.org in order to take
> > intelligent decision. The QEMU community can choose to reject Spice if
> > it decide to do so.
* Anthony Liguori (anth...@codemonkey.ws) wrote:
> Chris Wright wrote:
>>> That's a fork like it or not.
>>>
>>
>> It is a branch of work. The branch has been done without community
>> interaction, so yes, it looks like a fork.
>
> Branches don't carry independent names like "vdesktop". They
Alexander Graf wrote:
On 11.12.2009, at 18:16, Anthony Liguori wrote:
Yaniv Kamay wrote:
It already has. It's not a git tree with staged patches. It's a tarball
release of a really old version of kvm-userspace that's called
'vdesktop'.
This guy is evil and he is motiv
On 11.12.2009, at 18:16, Anthony Liguori wrote:
> Yaniv Kamay wrote:
>>> It already has. It's not a git tree with staged patches. It's a tarball
>>> release of a really old version of kvm-userspace that's called
>>>
>>> 'vdesktop'.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This guy is evil and he is motivate by per
- "Anthony Liguori" wrote:
> > I'm not getting into this discussion and is not going to happen, you
> have all
> > the necessary information on spiec-space.org in order to take
> intelligent
> > decision. The QEMU community can choose to reject Spice if it decide
> to do so.
> >
>
> Ther
On 11.12.2009, at 18:02, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
>
> - "Anthony Liguori" wrote:
>
>> Jun Koi wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Alexander Graf
>> wrote:
>>>
On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Spice project is now open, for more inform
Yaniv Kamay wrote:
It already has. It's not a git tree with staged patches. It's a
tarball release of a really old version of kvm-userspace that's called
'vdesktop'.
This guy is evil and he is motivate by personal agenda. I hope you all will
wakeup.
Okay, I'm done with this threa
- "Anthony Liguori" wrote:
> Jun Koi wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Alexander Graf
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Spice project is now open, for more information visit
> http://spice-space.org,
> >>> due to
Chris Wright wrote:
That's a fork like it or not.
It is a branch of work. The branch has been done without community
interaction, so yes, it looks like a fork.
Branches don't carry independent names like "vdesktop". They don't
carry their own version strings like 0.4.
Regards,
Anth
I'm not getting into this discussion and is not going to happen, you have all
the necessary information on spiec-space.org in order to take intelligent
decision. The QEMU community can choose to reject Spice if it decide to do so.
There's nothing to reject. You haven't posted patches.
Whe
* Yaniv Kamay (yka...@redhat.com) wrote:
> - "Anthony Liguori" wrote:
> > Since VNC is extensible (and we've extended it many times for QEMU),
> > if
> > Spice possesses unique encoding mechanisms that are advantageous, why
> >
> > wouldn't we just add those mechanisms to VNC as an extension
* Anthony Liguori (anth...@codemonkey.ws) wrote:
> Jun Koi wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:
>>
>>> On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
due to a server relocation the site will be down during this weekend.
Spice ship patched QEMU based on f
- "Anthony Liguori" wrote:
> Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Spice project is now open, for more information visit
> http://spice-space.org,
> > due to a server relocation the site will be down during this
> weekend.
> >
> > Spice ship patched QEMU based on fairly old KVM snapshot as a
>
Jun Koi wrote:
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:
On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
Hi,
Spice project is now open, for more information visit http://spice-space.org,
due to a server relocation the site will be down during this weekend.
Spice ship patch
Yaniv Kamay wrote:
Hi,
Spice project is now open, for more information visit http://spice-space.org,
due to a server relocation the site will be down during this weekend.
Spice ship patched QEMU based on fairly old KVM snapshot as a reference
implementation. The Spice team plane to push all the
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Alexander Graf wrote:
>
> On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Spice project is now open, for more information visit http://spice-space.org,
>> due to a server relocation the site will be down during this weekend.
>>
>> Spice ship patched QEM
- "Alexander Graf" wrote:
> On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Spice project is now open, for more information visit
> http://spice-space.org,
> > due to a server relocation the site will be down during this
> weekend.
> >
> > Spice ship patched QEMU based on fa
- "Jun Koi" wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Yaniv Kamay
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Spice project is now open, for more information visit
> http://spice-space.org,
> > due to a server relocation the site will be down during this
> weekend.
> >
> > Spice ship patched QEMU based on fa
On 11.12.2009, at 14:45, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Spice project is now open, for more information visit http://spice-space.org,
> due to a server relocation the site will be down during this weekend.
>
> Spice ship patched QEMU based on fairly old KVM snapshot as a reference
> implementatio
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Yaniv Kamay wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Spice project is now open, for more information visit http://spice-space.org,
> due to a server relocation the site will be down during this weekend.
>
> Spice ship patched QEMU based on fairly old KVM snapshot as a reference
> impleme
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