ir pet project instead of what they're
being paid for? There's also the risk of mixing up software created at home,
with that done at work, with all the intellectual property issues that might
arise.
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mechanism
without cluttering up the rest of code with extra variables.
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never be
enough material, even using multiple systems of exponents.
(A few years ago the biggest number I'd heard of was Skewes' Number
(something like 10^10^10^34), but even that is trivial to write using
conventional exponents as I've just shown. Graham's Number is in a different
enario, they are effectively 'blind' too.
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ket and
be
instantly understood on the other end.
But they can't contains nulls!
Null terminated strings have simplified all kids of text manipulation,
lexical
scanning, and data storage/communication code resulting in immeasurable
savings over the years.
They both have their uses.
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y management
arrangements, such a length need not be stored at all.
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len(s))+" *"+hozmargin)
newtext.append(hozmargin+"* "+" "*maxwidth+" *"+hozmargin)
newtext.append(hozmargin+"*"*(maxwidth+4)+hozmargin)
for i in range(vertinchlines):
newtext.append("")
for s in newtext:
print (s)
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ed like this (obviously you will need to obtain SHI from the
input file):
SHI=["First Name and Last","ENGR 109-X","Fall 2999","Format Example"]
textTuple = border(SHI)
for lines in textTuple:
print (lines)
The text handling is clunky (I had to learn the Python as I went along), but
with these things you just want to get something working first, then you can
tweak.
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*
Please post the output you're getting that has too many asterisks.
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"someone" wrote in message
news:9533449.630.1335042672358.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynmf4...
On Saturday, April 21, 2012 3:44:49 PM UTC-5, BartC wrote:
Hi, Bart: Thank you, your post is working now, maybe, I did something
wrong, unfortunately, you are right, my setup for g
I
agree.
Out of curiosity, what resulting bugs?
Probably things like i=(++i)+(--i), although more of being indeterminate
than a bug.
That assumes that ++i was intended for use in an expression, rather than
just be a statement.
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27;pythonic'; certainly it's a crude, if effective,
way of getting extra performance).
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mes is
'#define' and 'enum', while what it calls 'const' is really 'read-only
variable'), and perhaps Python is another.
But then, the dividing line between constants and 'variables' can get
confused when the values involved are complex (strings and such), so might
be understandable up to a point.
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CPU, and it would be interesting to see how well it works.
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useful
in practice.
Yes, it generates lots of calls.
About 22000 for fib(20), and 330 million for fib(40).
That's why it's popular for benchmarks that measure performance of function
calls. Using an iterative algorithm wouldn't work quite so well...
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see if i now changes.
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js> print(21)
Javascript I believe uses C-like syntax. C syntax is also fond of
unnecessary punctuation, and its 'printf' requires a format string full
of format codes. Even more of a nuisance.
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ey would need to be
given different names to make things easier.
Then there wouldn't be any argument.
No more cryptic and ugly syntax for printing to a file. Setting the argument
separator is easy. Instead of an obscure and easy to miss trick to suppress the
end of line, you use an obvious and self-explanatory keyword argument.
movedata(a, b, action='copy', depth='shallow')
Self-explanatory keyword arguments, tick; as simple as just writing:
a = b
probably not!
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nctuation characters, of which half are shifted (on my
keyboard). /And/ you have to select a suitable format code. Suddenly,
having to type:
print (a)
doesn't seem so bad.
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till useful for print to be a
little special.
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t me and said proudly "$10.03 is your
change."
My bill in a store came to £3.20 (GBP3.20), so I handed over £10.20.
I was given back £16.90 in change!
It turned out the cashier had entered £20.10 as the amount tendered. It
was sorted out in the end.
Sometimes its easier not to be bot
>>file, args` hack;
- it can't be mocked, shadowed, monkey-patched or replaced for testing;
- and you can't even write help(print) in the interactive interpreter
because its a syntax error.
Can't you get around all those with things like sys.stdout.write?
ces. The increase would actually be
just over 2.1% (a £100 ex-VAT price increases from £117.50 to £120.00).
Etc.
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of view of "intuitiveness". It's much easier to tell what's
going on, at a glance, in a C++ program.
You're being serious, aren't you?
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amp;a,value):
a = value
set(x,100)
Here the type of x is irrelevant anyway. It doesn't even need to be
initialised to anything first (that might violate something in Python, I
don't know what).
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given:
A = [10,20,30]
B = ["X","Y","Z"]
and wanting to swap A[0] and B[2]. Although these being list elements,
they /could/ be exchanged via a function:
def swapelems(a,i,b,j):
a[i],b[j]=b[j],a[i]
swapelems(A,0,B,2)
Just not using a general-purpose swap function.
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x.y, provided the term is mutable.
(To make it work would require a new reference type. And extra versions
of the byte-codes or whatever is used to evaluate terms such as:
a, a[i], x.y
that evaluate a reference rather than the value. So LOADFASTREF as well
as LOADFAST)
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his is why you can't change A in the caller as there is no way to get
from X's box to A's box. And the strings to the object are one-way.
In the case of fn(A+2), a new object is created (with value '3', or an
existing '3' might be used), a new string is att
ng (and fun, a lot of it), and
the second is the usual lot of tools and technologies that programmers
seems to have to know about these days (and not so much fun).
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On 28/09/2017 12:31, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:12 pm, bartc wrote:
And I have little interest in most of this lot (my eyes glaze over just
reading some of these):
> - how to use operating systems
You've never used a system call? Written to a file? Mo
def fn(*a): pass
fn(
country( 'USA' ),
state( 'Alabama' ),
town( 'Abbeville' ),
town( 'Addison' ),
state( 'Arizona' ),
town( 'Apache Junction' ),
town( 'Avondale' ),
town( 'Benson
takes
time.
If it recalculates 'last' once for each of those couple of dozen printed
lines, that I doubt accessing a few MB of memory is the issue. More
doing such a big calculation.
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On 02/10/2017 14:54, Peter Otten wrote:
bartc wrote:
On 02/10/2017 08:41, Peter Otten wrote:
Daniel Bastos wrote:
def make_sequence_non_recursive(N, x0 = 2, c = -1):
"What's wrong with this function? It's very slow."
last = x0
def sequence():
nonl
ss such
code) still count as programming?
It seems to me the equivalent of an advanced driving course teaching you
how to customise your car rather than involving any actual driving.
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On 04/10/2017 06:32, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2017 02:00 am, bartc wrote:
Does all this advanced stuff (which I don't understand and which doesn't
look very appealing either; hopefully I will never come across such
code) still count as programming?
I could not have
and-a-half.
My proposed while-do has a less chaotic structure. It wouldn't preclude
'break' from still being used, but there would be less need.
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ode wonder what it means."
Exactly the same could be said of pretty much any of the advanced
features that /have/ been added.
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ns I counted at least
half a dozen different ideas for implementing what the OP really wanted
to do, which was expressed using C-like syntax. None of which were as
obvious.
And that C-like one worked because it could use an assignment within a
while-condition.
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On 04/10/2017 14:41, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:07 AM, bartc wrote:
For that matter, I don't think Python has such a feature either. So that you
write for example:
const C = 123345
and then whenever C appears within the code, it's implemented as:
LOAD_CON
ile by
line or by byte won't work.
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p := point(10,20)
println p # (10.,20.)
println p.bytes# 16
It's not Pythonic, but it is pretty handy
(I know Python can also do structs like this but it appeared to be quite
a slog last time I looked.)
I guess my kind of coding is somewhat less esoteric than the kind of
thing I typically see in Python here.
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print ("You typed:", buffer) # process(buffer)
print ("Bye")
This is a loop-and-a-half.
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On 05/10/2017 12:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:56 PM, bartc wrote:
This doesn't make sense. For interactive use, you wouldn't bother testing
for eof, as you'd be testing the eof status of the keyboard.
You mean the way heaps and heaps of Unix programs w
On 05/10/2017 12:29, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
Result? You can't just look at my 'any' class and see what fields it
uses. You can't even just look at the static source code. You have to
run the program to find out. And it might be different each time.
You can
On 05/10/2017 18:01, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:26 PM, bartc wrote:
On 05/10/2017 12:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:56 PM, bartc wrote:
This doesn't make sense. For interactive use, you wouldn't bother testing
for eof, as you'd be
ely too (temporarily of course).
Other replies suggest that deleting the import [name] doesn't affect any
data it contains. So might as well move it to the top where it belongs.
del mystuff
import mystuff
mystuff.some_more_expensive_stuff( x )
You'll have to comment
On 05/10/2017 23:42, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
It can be done with an in-band end-of-data code,
Then you need some way of escaping that in-band code, in case
it happens to equal some of the data you want to sort.
It needn't be a big deal. You can do this (you have to in Pyth
rogram will only run on the programmer's
machine and not a million consumer machines who would also need to fork
out for extra memory. Their salaries may not stretch as far.)
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t hundreds of dialogue lines scrolling up the screen
while it's doing so.
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On 06/10/2017 12:04, Rhodri James wrote:
On 05/10/17 19:45, bartc wrote:
Yes, I tried typing 'sort' in Linux, where it apparently hangs (same
on Windows actually). The reason: because it might have killed someone
to have added a message saying what you are expected to type and how
On 06/10/2017 12:51, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 10:41 PM, bartc wrote:
> What you REALLY mean is that you can't see the point of an interactive
> sort command. It doesn't fit into your workflow. And that's fine. It's
> not something you'
On 06/10/2017 12:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 9:32 PM, bartc wrote:
(And properly, by being given the same of an actual file rather than using
crude redirection.)
Why do you call redirection "crude"? Do you not understand the value
of generic solutions that wor
On 05/10/2017 14:13, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2017 10:51 pm, bartc wrote:
Am I allowed to say that it all seems a bit of a mess?
You may or may not be pleased to learn that there's a push to create a "record
like" or "struct like" datatype for
On 06/10/2017 14:11, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
On 2017-10-06 12:38, bartc wrote:
On 06/10/2017 12:51, Chris Angelico wrote:
What you REALLY mean is that you can't see the point of an interactive
sort command. It doesn't fit into your workflow. And that's fine. It's
not some
On 06/10/2017 14:35, Paul Moore wrote:
On 6 October 2017 at 13:56, bartc wrote:
If you don't like the word 'crude', try 'lazy'. Take this example of the gcc
C compiler:
> gcc -E program.c
This preprocesses the code and shows the result. Typical programs will hav
On 06/10/2017 15:55, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:38 PM, bartc wrote:
Have you ever worked on a slow remote session where a GUI is
completely impracticable (or maybe even unavailable), and redrawing
the screen is too expensive to do all the time? You absolutely have to
On 06/10/2017 18:42, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
So what's the excuse for an unresponsive text display in 2017?
Got it. You assume that a system is a coherent computer with its
peripherals, rather than being a networked collection of computers,
a
On 06/10/2017 18:55, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
bartc :
The internal utilities used within an operating system, primarily
intended for file or redirected i/o with no live interaction, should be
distinct from those designed to be used directly with a live user.
Or is it against the rules of Unix to
On 06/10/2017 20:38, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2017-10-06, bartc wrote:
For sort, there is no real need. You use a text editor to create
your data. Then use existing file-based sort.
I sort streams on stdin far more often than I sort named files.
So what's been established is that
On 06/10/2017 20:21, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 5:51 AM, bartc wrote:
If you're stuck, whip out a tablet computer or smartphone (they should still
function without connectivity) and use a preloaded text editor. Or just
compose and then save an email. Even the sim
On 07/10/2017 00:43, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 12:24 am, bartc wrote:
print ("Enter blank expression to quit.")
I *despise* programs that do that, and would cheerfully and unapologetically
take their designers, disguise them as a lettuce, and stake them out t
On 07/10/2017 01:14, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
On 06/10/2017 14:35, Paul Moore wrote:
On 6 October 2017 at 13:56, bartc wrote:
If you don't like the word 'crude', try 'lazy'. Take this example of the gcc
C compiler:
> gcc -E program.c
This preproc
On 07/10/2017 02:46, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 06:18 am, bartc wrote:
For sort, there is no real need. You use a text editor to create your
data. Then use existing file-based sort.
What you mean is, *you* see no need for sorting interactively, or sorting as
part of a pip
with the next page. I think I did a 350-page
manual like that. With pictures.
My current language doesn't link its 'print' to graphic displays or images.)
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On 07/10/2017 09:35, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:05 am, bartc wrote:
Um, that actually follows what interactive Python does.
What is "that" to which you refer?
If you mean, "what I, Bart C, suggested, namely having the program exit on a
blank line"
On 07/10/2017 14:19, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:06 pm, bartc wrote:
Ctrl-K to enter "operate on selected text" mode;
Y to Delete
Ctrl-K to enter "operate on selected text" mode;
R to Read from a file (at last an actual mnemonic command!)
enter a fil
On 07/10/2017 14:19, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:06 pm, bartc wrote:
So I have to copy 33,000 lines from a document,
Don't be daft. Nobody says that stdin is a sufficient interface for a
heavy-weight task like that. With 33000 lines of text, I absolutely would
save
On 07/10/2017 15:45, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2017-10-07, bartc wrote:
Interactive Python requires quit() or exit(), complete with parentheses.
Nonsense. On Unix you can just press ctrl-D (or whatever you have
configured as eof) at the command prompt. On windows, it's Ctrl-Z
.
Steve
On 07/10/2017 17:28, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 01:15 am, bartc wrote:
You do remember this was about using programs /like/ sort as a model for
writing true interactive scrolling text apps?
I don't remember any such thing. I remember you *claiming* that, but if anyon
On 08/10/2017 10:12, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 02:06 am, bartc wrote:
Thousands of Python programmers on Windows successfully learned to use Ctrl-Z
ENTER back in the days of Python 1.5, before quit/exit were added as a
convenience for beginners, and many of them probably
On 07/10/2017 15:40, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2017 11:54 pm, bartc wrote:
So my programs that use Escape on Windows needed
to use Escape Escape on Linux to get around that.
Or you could just follow the expected Unix interface instead of inventing your
own.
Your job is to
ain, runs on
either OS. And I believe each file works with any C compiler.
(Actually, I just found it had a dependency on a Windows time function;
I've removed that temporarily for this upload.)
See the pattern here? Simplicity not complexity. Consideration for
others by making
On 08/10/2017 13:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 10:46 PM, bartc wrote:
Just look at any interactive page on the web, they all work differently.
People are used to it. And it allows innovation.
Maybe it's just that you're not old enough to have worked with te
On 08/10/2017 17:13, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:01 AM, bartc wrote:
However as graphics became more mainstream then yes I did adopt some
commonly expected styles (menubars for example). As for Alt-F4, if that
generates a WM_CLOSE message for example, then I would be obliged
On 08/10/2017 19:10, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 3:50 AM, bartc wrote:
You assume that since
*you* have never needed to produce one lower-case letter in a block of
upper-case, that "probably no one else has", and then you make it
impossible to do that in your edit
r that means - ended up being
used to mark the end of text files, I don't know.]
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hey're offloaded
to a library. And in your example, which I don't really understand, it
seems more like the headache of the application.
(Where a language allows elements of a program to be disseminated across
a network, that's rather different, and an advanced feature that only
so
yellow= 201
but it's not hard. Although it might not be worth doing until a program
is finished. Compare to:
red = 1
green = 2
blue = 3
turquoise = 4
yellow = 201
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On 09/10/2017 01:37, boB Stepp wrote:
On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 5:36 AM, bartc wrote:
And Bart, when large numbers of technical experts in their fields have
spent many hours/months/years, yea, even several decades, developing
these software systems, why do you think that you, all by yourself
ere, but
what's the type?) Not so convenient.
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On 11/10/2017 15:52, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 3:14:51 PM UTC+1, bartc wrote:
On 11/10/2017 14:16, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Python and C don't try to protect you. In return, you get syntactic
convenience that probably enhances the quality of your pro
On 11/10/2017 15:36, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 1:14 AM, bartc wrote:
Python, maybe. C syntax isn't as painful as C++ but I still have a lot of
trouble with it. (Eg. the variable declaration 'char(*(*x[3])())[5]'. The
name of the variable can be found lurk
On 11/10/2017 17:16, Jonathan Cast wrote:
On Wed, 2017-10-11 at 15:14 +0100, bartc wrote:
On 11/10/2017 14:16, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
Python and C don't try to protect you. In return, you get syntactic
convenience that probably enhances the quality of your programs.
Python, maybe. C s
the cast is 'pointer to pointer to function returning
pointer to int64'.
The line includes two dereferences (^^) which /I think/ account for two
of the "*" in the C version. Which * are dereferences, and which are
part of the type, or indeed whether only one * is the dereference, I
have absolutely no idea. Great language...)
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tigate a problem in one language that doesn't
exist in the other. Surely it's better to have neither the cryptic type
nor the typedef. Everything would be much cleaner.
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# (blank) error, divide string by string
.1e10 1e5 # 1.00
ten twenty # error, divide string by string
For throwaway programs, or for testing, or for trusted input, this is
perfectly reasonable. For perfect error checking, you need to do a bit
more work on either ver
On 11/10/2017 23:03, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
tokenrec * (*)[]
>
the original source and that type is written like this:
ref [] ref tokenrec
The idiomatic way to write that type in C would be
tokenrec **
The original has an extra pointer so idiomatic C might
t syntax can be;
you write what you have to write, then get on with the rest of the
coding. Oh, and it's also very easy to read.
It's a mystery to me actually; there is zero cost to devising,
implementing and using the most helpful syntax, and actually there are
real benefits. So why u
ead-only, but with any even
slightly complex type, it won't work (the head of a linked list for
example, where the node elements need to be writeable). It gives a false
sense of security.
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On 12/10/2017 11:39, Stefan Ram wrote:
bartc writes:
(1) Define named constants; except (in C) they can't be used like
constant expressions, you can take their addresses, and accidentally or
maliciously change their values.
When I think of »const«, I do not think of ROM.
»const«
an element is a pointer, nothing stops you writing to what the
pointer points to, unless that has a const target too. And then you've
going to have problems doing normal updates. This constness just
insinuates itself everywhere.
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is written to multiple times at runtime. It can't go into actual
read-only memory like a ROM. And it might have trouble going into a
memory page with read-only attributes.
'const' tries to do too many things, most of them poorly, although it
does a very good job at adding clutter.
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to
it will cause a crash. On my home-made system, they just did nothing.
Much more graceful.
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On 13/10/2017 14:16, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:00 AM, bartc wrote:
Even if data is actually in write-protected memory, attempts to write to it
will cause a crash. On my home-made system, they just did nothing. Much more
graceful.
The novice thinks his job is to stop
plies
that same algorithm?
We mustn't forget the person writing the code, who may have a certain
type in mind for X, but their (I nearly said 'his') analysis may not
match the compiler's.
Annotations can be useful.
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On 13/10/2017 15:59, Julien Salort wrote:
Le 12/10/2017 à 17:57, bartc a écrit :
With a const struct, you are stopped from directly modifying elements,
but if an element is a pointer, nothing stops you writing to what the
pointer points to, unless that has a const target too. And then you&#x
,
why can't a scheme like that work now?
BTW, when you're developing a new bit of hardware or software, and
you're not part of team, then the user-base is normally just yourself.
Nothing wrong with that, but you seem to like belittling people with
such comments. What was th
hey would be accessed as:
i.spam
So this would be a const attribute.
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bartc
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).
That looks to be a repeat-N-times loop. There isn't a dedicated
statement for that, the closest Python feature would be 'for i in
range(n)' with i a dummy loop variable.
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bartc
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On 15/10/2017 12:20, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 9:15 PM, bartc wrote:
I assume you're talking about the while-loop (because on my machine, it
hangs just using 'from turtle...' or 'import turtle').
(Machine was screwed up I think, as I had to rest
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