I think the point is there is not much to discuss. Goto is not going to be
added. Furthermore, for every program language you want to translate from
source, you have to find a workaround. Otherwise, your translation will
only work for languages that have goto. Even so the implementation may not
be
On 02/01/2018 15:20, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:51 AM, bartc wrote:
I like to write code in a simple, clean, universal style that everyone can
understand.
That doesn't mean it has to look like Fortran.
Why are you using a Python interpreter then? Why are you here on
pyt
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:51 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 29/12/2017 18:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the
>>> source
>>> language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in
On 29/12/2017 18:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the source
language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in the target
language, then gotos would be very useful in the latter
On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 9:11 AM, wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:35:06 PM UTC, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Chris Green wrote:
>> > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still
>> >> exits
>> >> v
On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:35:06 PM UTC, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> > Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> >>
> >> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still
> >> exits
> >> via the end of the block. I have a tendency to try
On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 7:16 AM, Chris Green wrote:
> Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>>
>> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still exits
>> via the end of the block. I have a tendency to try for one "return" per
>> procedure (so I'm more likely to have an "if ...: break"
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>
> Well... "break" does bypass the rest of the block, but it still exits
> via the end of the block. I have a tendency to try for one "return" per
> procedure (so I'm more likely to have an "if ...: break" then "if ...:
> return").
I have always tried to enforc
Sorry, delete string "n't". I mean that you would strcuture your code
with that architecture.
Hate that.
marxos
On 1/1/18, John Q Hacker wrote:
>>> I don’t use gotos in C code. Why should it be “harder” in a higher-level
>>> language?
>>
>> Good for you.
>>
>> Looking at 14 million lines of Li
>> I don’t use gotos in C code. Why should it be “harder” in a higher-level
>> language?
>
> Good for you.
>
> Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
> over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
Most use of goto's implies a lack of understanding of th
(Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
why ?
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 01/01/2018 15:06, From wrote:
(Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
why ?
Huh?
I'm posting to the usenet group comp.lang.python (an off-topic reply to
an off-topic remark, but it happens).
I've no idea what the prohibited part is about, if that's what you're
pos
On 01/01/2018 14:54, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
On 2017-12-30 11:07:56 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
Yes. I don't know any language which enforces "pure" structured
programming. They all have some constructs (goto, break, return,
exceptions, ...) to leave a block early. I don't think that invali
On 2017-12-30 11:07:56 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:46:14 +0100, "Peter J. Holzer"
> declaimed the following:
>
> >I don't think this is correct. Structured programming is much older:
> >ALGOL 60 was already a block structured language and Dijkstra wrote
> >"goto consi
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 6:56:16 PM UTC, bartc wrote:
> On 31/12/2017 17:01, breamoreboy wrote:
>
> >Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
> >over the lack of goto
>
> Neither have I over all the advanced features of Python I never use, and
> for do
On 01/01/2018 00:40, MRAB wrote:
On 2017-12-31 23:21, bartc wrote:
[Block delimiting]
proc fn2(int a)=
...
end
(or possibly "inline f123=").
[snip]
OT: if "case ... esac" and "if ... fi", why not "proc ... corp"? :-)
(I don't think Algol-68 used corp otherwise it might have been copied
On 31/12/2017 17:01, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
over the lack of goto
Neither have I over all the advanced features of Python I never use, and
for double that number of years.
Yet for some they will be as indisp
On 31/12/2017 17:01, breamore...@gmail.com wrote:
I would use functions every time as a modern compiler can inline them
This
Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
over the lack of goto
And this. (In my case only 6 years.)
--
https://mail.python.org/
bartc writes:
> On 31/12/2017 22:09, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>
>> No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
>> cut)
>>
>> | If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
>> | avoiding goto was worth doing, I would do so.
>>
>> but I'm not sure
On 2017-12-31 23:21, bartc wrote:
On 31/12/2017 22:09, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
cut)
| If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
| avoiding goto was worth doing, I would do so.
but I'm not sure y
On 31/12/2017 22:09, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
No, you missed the point and did not address the question. You said (now
cut)
| If I thought introducing functions, whether local or not, as a way of
| avoiding goto was worth doing, I would do so.
but I'm not sure you know if it's worth it or not. S
bartc writes:
> On 31/12/2017 15:02, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> bartc writes:
>
>> I think there's a problem with that. Standard C does not have them, you
>> said your language does not implement them properly
>
> (The real problem is I don't remember local functions being used
> anywhere else. It
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 6:29 AM, bartc wrote:
> You'll need to give an example I think. Suppose I start with this:
>
> def fn(a):
> if a==1:
> print ("One")
> print ("Two")
> print ("Three")
> elif a==2:
> print ("Four")
> else:
> print ("Other")
On 31/12/2017 19:29, bartc wrote:
[Ignore the original, incomplete version of my post, which appears after
the sig.
I decided to actually try it out for real instead of just guessing!
Good thing too.]
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 31/12/2017 17:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 3:55 AM, bartc wrote:
The suggestion was to use them to avoid gotos. If duplicating is a good
idea (and it's a hard line to draw) then we are not talking about the
same cases. Given the choice of "dragging in named functions" a
On Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 3:02:41 PM UTC, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> bartc writes:
>
> > On 31/12/2017 12:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
> >>> On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
> >
> I've written code that uses dirty tricks like that
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 3:55 AM, bartc wrote:
>> The suggestion was to use them to avoid gotos. If duplicating is a good
>> idea (and it's a hard line to draw) then we are not talking about the
>> same cases. Given the choice of "dragging in named functions" and
>> dragging in named blocks and go
On 31/12/2017 15:02, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
I think there's a problem with that. Standard C does not have them, you
said your language does not implement them properly
(The real problem is I don't remember local functions being used
anywhere else. It's an idiom I'm not used to
bartc writes:
> On 31/12/2017 12:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
>>> On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
I've written code that uses dirty tricks like that to avoid
duplication. It's at least as much of a problem as actual duplicatio
On 31/12/2017 12:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
I've written code that uses dirty tricks like that to avoid
duplication. It's at least as much of a problem as actual duplication
is. Generally, the 'goto' sol
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
>
>
> B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B
On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens
bartc writes:
> On 30/12/2017 20:36, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> bartc writes:
>>
>>> On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
> it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
>>>
>>> I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
>>>
On 2017-12-30 23:22, Gregory Ewing wrote:
Stefan Ram wrote:
BASIC has
DEF FN...
which /can/ define actual subroutines, limited to expressions.
Now, what does this limitation remind me of?
The equivalent limitation in Python is nowhere near as bad,
since if you outgrow what lambda can
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>>
>> bartc wrote:
>>>
>>> B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
>>> needing to duplicate code,
>>
>>
>> This only works if the repeated part happens to be at the
>> tail of
On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens to be at the
tail of each case.
IME that seems to be the most common situation.
Any other si
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens to be at the
tail of each case. Any other situation and you're back to
local functions.
--
Greg
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinf
bartc wrote:
C doesn't in general have local functions. My own languages don't
implement them properly. So I tend not to use them.
Looks like there's something circular going on here. You don't
have much experience of using local functions, so you don't
see a lot of value in them, so you haven'
Stefan Ram wrote:
BASIC has
DEF FN...
which /can/ define actual subroutines, limited to expressions.
Now, what does this limitation remind me of?
The equivalent limitation in Python is nowhere near as bad,
since if you outgrow what lambda can do you can always
use a def instead. BASIC
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 9:43 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 30/12/2017 20:36, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>
>> bartc writes:
>>
>>> On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
>
> it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm honest about m
On 30/12/2017 20:36, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before compl
> On Dec 30, 2017, at 7:46 AM, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>
> On 2017-12-29 19:09:35 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:12:22 +, bartc declaimed the
>> following:
>>> Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
>>> over 100,000 of them use 'goto'
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> bartc writes:
>
>> On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
>>> On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
>>>
>>> Understatement of 2017.
>>
>> I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
>> special symbols
bartc writes:
> On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
>> On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
>>> it looks a bit naff
>>
>> Understatement of 2017.
>
> I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
> special symbols such as "::" and "@".
>
> Before completely dismissing it however
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:41 AM, bartc wrote:
> (I had introduced a special language feature just for this kind of thing,
> but it was unsatisfactory. Goto was simpler and understood by everyone. And
> portable to any other language - that hasn't done away with goto. But it
> worked like this (not
On 2017-12-30 18:21, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before completely dismissing it howev
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before completely dismissing it however, you should look at how anothe
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 30/12/2017 03:05, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 12:12:23 PM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
That kind of thing leads to spaghetti code.
Here
On 2017-12-29 19:09:35 -0500, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:12:22 +, bartc declaimed the
> following:
> >Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
> >over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
> >
>
> C is a language that
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 8:35:27 AM UTC+5:30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro
wrote:
> On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 12:12:23 PM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
> > Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
> > over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
>
> That
On 2017-12-29 23:12, bartc wrote:
On 29/12/2017 21:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 9:03:50 AM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
Why most newer, higher level languages don't, I don't know. Perhaps
because the people who design them want to make programming harder?
I don’t u
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C, over
100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
Isn't C's goto statement restricted to the current function? I imagine
setjmp and longjmp calls might be more insidious.
Skip
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listi
On 29/12/2017 21:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 9:03:50 AM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
Why most newer, higher level languages don't, I don't know. Perhaps
because the people who design them want to make programming harder?
I don’t use gotos in C code. Why should it b
On 29/12/2017 21:56, Stefan Ram wrote:
Chris Angelico writes:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
PHP also added goto to a later version.
Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
I thought that that was a reason
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
> On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> PHP also added goto to a later version.
>>
>> Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
>
> I thought that that was a reason to not do it.
Often, yeah. Hence my comment that "hey
On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> PHP also added goto to a later version.
>
> Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
I thought that that was a reason to not do it.
--
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:da...@vex.net VoIP: sip:da.
On 29/12/2017 20:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 7:03 AM, bartc wrote:
On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Rather than ask h
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 7:03 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
>>
>>> How to use goto in python?
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>> Rather than ask how to use an u
On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Rather than ask how to use an unavailable statement (GOTO), why not
investigate why no modern languages use it?
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
> How to use goto in python?
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
Rather than ask how to use an unavailable statement (GOTO), why not
investigate why no modern languages use it?
--
MarkA
You can safely
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
> If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the source
> language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in the target
> language, then gotos would be very useful in the latter.
>
As has already been said in this th
On 29/12/2017 09:52, alister wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:54:31 -0800, breamoreboy wrote:
On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 7:40:14 PM UTC, alister wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://
On 28/12/2017 22:38, Tim Chase wrote:
On 2017-12-29 08:42, Ben Finney wrote:
Duram writes:
How to use goto in python?
Step 0: what is goto in Python?
Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
so quick to shoot down
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 18:54:31 -0800, breamoreboy wrote:
> On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 7:40:14 PM UTC, alister wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
>>
>> > How to use goto in python?
>> >
>> > ---
>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> > http://www.avg.
On Friday, December 29, 2017 at 3:28:23 AM UTC, Ben Finney wrote:
> Tim Chase writes:
>
> > [third-party website]
> > Gives you […]
>
> So, it's not in Python, it's a third-party (joke) package. Hence is
> probably not what Duram is asking about as “goto in Python”.
>
> I'm still open to learnin
Tim Chase writes:
> [third-party website]
> Gives you […]
So, it's not in Python, it's a third-party (joke) package. Hence is
probably not what Duram is asking about as “goto in Python”.
I'm still open to learning what Duram meant by “goto in Python”. Rather
than everyone else piling on with su
On 2017-12-29 08:42, Ben Finney wrote:
> Duram writes:
>
> > How to use goto in python?
>
> Step 0: what is goto in Python?
>
> Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
> asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
so quick to shoot down a poor soul.
http://ent
On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 7:40:14 PM UTC, alister wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
>
> > How to use goto in python?
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > http://www.avg.com
>
> Dont!
> actually you cant - there isn't one*
>
> *at le
On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 11:17 AM, bartc wrote:
> On 28/12/2017 21:42, Ben Finney wrote:
>>
>> Duram writes:
>>
>>> How to use goto in python?
>>
>>
>> Step 0: what is goto in Python?
>>
>> Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
>> asking how to use something that doesn
bartc writes:
> But it's not accessible from the language.
Another way to say that (and the way I said the same thing) is: It
doesn't exist in Python.
--
\ “I went to the museum where they had all the heads and arms |
`\ from the statues that are in all the other museums.” —Ste
On 28/12/2017 21:42, Ben Finney wrote:
Duram writes:
How to use goto in python?
Step 0: what is goto in Python?
Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
Goto exists in the form of the JUMP_ABSOLUTE byte-code.
But i
Duram writes:
> How to use goto in python?
Step 0: what is goto in Python?
Step 1: that's not something that exists in Python. So why are you
asking how to use something that doesn't exist?
--
\“[R]ightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our |
`\will, within li
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
> How to use goto in python?
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
Dont!
actually you cant - there isn't one*
*at least not in the core language no doubt some sick person will have
manager to hack togethe
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Mikhail V wrote:
> I am in the category "I just want to express some
> algorithm and don't want to learn every year new concepts".
> I tend to think that extremely restricted syntax, in the sence
> of having only few flow control instructions actually helps with
>
On 14 April 2017 at 03:44, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:52 am, bartc wrote:
>
>> I know this isn't the Python need-for-speed thread, but this is a
>> classic example where the lack of one simple feature leads to using
>> slower, more cumbersome ones.
>
> Dear gods, have I fallen
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
And since the original COBOL standard numeric format was BCD, PIC not
only defined output layout, but also internal storage needed by numerics
and string data types.
Unless you said USAGE IS COMPUTATIONAL, which left the compiler
free to pick a more efficient st
r...@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram):
> struct example
> { PIC<5,X<15>> last_name;
> PIC<88,VALUE<1,3,5,7,9>> odd_numbers; }
>
> . The above assumes appropriate definitions for »VALUE« (as a
> variadic template) »PIC«, and »X«. Only a C++ expert would be able
> to provide thes
On 04/14/2017 07:19 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:44:59 +1000, Steve D'Aprano
declaimed the following:
Even that's not enough for some. Donald Knuth, who supports the use of GOTO
under some circumstances, maintains that any program using GOTOs should
have the invariant t
On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 12:13 AM, Dennis Lee Bieber
wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:36:57 -0600, Ian Kelly
> declaimed the following:
>
>>
>>Well, you can do it in Assembly. And BASIC, if you count the primitive
>>GOSUB-type subroutines, though modern BASICs have real subroutines
>>that don't all
Bernd Nawothnig wrote:
> On 2017-04-13, Mikhail V wrote:
> > On 13 April 2017 at 18:48, Ian Kelly wrote:
> >> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
> >>> Now I wonder, have we already collected *all* bells and whistles of Python
> >>> in these two examples, or is there something els
On 2017-04-13, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2017-04-13, Rob Gaddi wrote:
>
>> No, C doesn't support exception handling. As a result, handling error
>> conditions in C is a huge pain for which (forward-only) goto is often,
>> while not the only remedy, the least painful one.
>
> Indeed. That is alm
On 2017-04-13, Mikhail V wrote:
> On 13 April 2017 at 18:48, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 10:23 AM, Mikhail V wrote:
>>> Now I wonder, have we already collected *all* bells and whistles of Python
>>> in these two examples, or is there something else for expressing trivial
>>> thin
On 14/04/2017 02:44, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:52 am, bartc wrote:
I know this isn't the Python need-for-speed thread, but this is a
classic example where the lack of one simple feature leads to using
slower, more cumbersome ones.
Dear gods, have I fallen back in time to 19
Gregory Ewing :
> Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> If PIC is so great, why do no other languages have it?
>
> Something akin to it has turned up in other places, although usually
> in the guise of an output formatting facility rather than a way of
> describing how data is stored internally. For example,
Ian Kelly wrote:
Yikes. I never took the time to learn COBOL, but that almost sounds
like something that you'd find in an esoteric language like INTERCAL.
COBOL has other fun stuff like that, too. For example, the
destination of a GOTO statement can be changed from elsewhere
in the program:
ht
Steve D'Aprano wrote:
If PIC is so great, why do no other languages have it?
Something akin to it has turned up in other places, although
usually in the guise of an output formatting facility rather
than a way of describing how data is stored internally.
For example, the PRINT USING found in s
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:15:11 AM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:52 am, bartc wrote:
>
> > I know this isn't the Python need-for-speed thread, but this is a
> > classic example where the lack of one simple feature leads to using
> > slower, more cumbersome ones.
>
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 7:03:24 AM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 04:09 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > [Sorry its a vague memory of something I read more than a decade ago that
> > [I cant
> > trace again]
> > Some unknown Cobol programmer talking about Dijkstra:
> >
> > D
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:52 am, bartc wrote:
> I know this isn't the Python need-for-speed thread, but this is a
> classic example where the lack of one simple feature leads to using
> slower, more cumbersome ones.
Dear gods, have I fallen back in time to 1975 again?
The Goto Wars are over, and th
On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 04:09 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
>> Meyer's "Considered Harmful Essays Considered Harmful" essay is
>> hypocritical junk, and should be considered harmful.
>
> Your view.
Well duh :-)
> Here's an alter
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nathan Ernst wrote:
> Thank you for that Alan Kay quote. Brightened up my day. Since you also
> mentioned COBOL, and this is a thread about "goto", reminded me of the
> single most abhorrent thing I ever saw in COBOL (I had to convert a single
> COBOL batch proces
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:59 PM, bartc wrote:
> On 13/04/2017 22:58, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:52:24 +0100, bartc declaimed the
>>> following:
>>>
'goto' would be one easy-to-execute byte-code; no varia
On 13/04/2017 22:58, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:52:24 +0100, bartc declaimed the
following:
'goto' would be one easy-to-execute byte-code; no variables, objects or
types to worry about. If implemented properly (with the b
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber
wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:52:24 +0100, bartc declaimed the
> following:
>
>>'goto' would be one easy-to-execute byte-code; no variables, objects or
>>types to worry about. If implemented properly (with the byte-code
>>compiler using a dedic
Rob Gaddi :
> On 04/13/2017 08:26 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> I have occasionally felt the urge to try "goto" in my C code, but having
>> written it, I have taken it out. It just doesn't make the code look more
>> elegant or robust. Unlike "break" or "return," "goto" makes me uneasy
>> about vari
Thank you for that Alan Kay quote. Brightened up my day. Since you also
mentioned COBOL, and this is a thread about "goto", reminded me of the
single most abhorrent thing I ever saw in COBOL (I had to convert a single
COBOL batch process to ASP.Net as an intern back in 2003-4). "MOVE NEXT
SENTENCE"
On 2017-04-13, Rob Gaddi wrote:
> No, C doesn't support exception handling. As a result, handling error
> conditions in C is a huge pain for which (forward-only) goto is often,
> while not the only remedy, the least painful one.
Indeed. That is almost the only place I use 'goto' in C, and the
On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Or consider(!) Alan Kay's statement: "Arrogance in computer science is
> measured
> in nanodijktras"
Completely unrelated but it reminded me about this bon mot about Niklaus Wirth:
Europeans tend to pronounce his name properly, as Nih-klaus
On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:14:15 PM UTC+5:30, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
> Meyer's "Considered Harmful Essays Considered Harmful" essay is hypocritical
> junk, and should be considered harmful.
Your view.
Here's an alternative.
[Sorry its a vague memory of something I read more than a decade ago
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