in 720726 20140411 134419 Tim Chase wrote:
>On 2014-04-11 13:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> I have seen plenty of cultures where people are unaware of the value
>> of interleaved/bottom posting, but so far, not one where anyone has
>> actually required it. Not one.
>
>
On Friday, April 11, 2014 12:13:47 PM UTC-4, Sturla Molden wrote:
> Mark H Harris wrote:
>
> > Obfuscation (hiding) of your source is *bad*, usually done for one
> > of the following reasons:
>
> > 1) Boss is paranoid and fears loss of revenues due to intellectual
> > property theft.
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 16:27:27 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> > Another reason I've heard of is to try to reduce support efforts.
> >
> > If you distribute something that's easy to modify, then people will.
>
> The majority of people will treat your app as a black box. O
On 4/11/2014 7:13 PM, blindanagram wrote:
On 11/04/2014 22:33, blindanagram wrote:
Thanks, Mark and Terry, for your rapid responses.
An interesting thread.
It just occurred to me today, and I verified, that '+1' is also seen as
a string.
>>> '{0[-1]}'.format({'-1': 'neg int key'})
'neg int
On 11 Apr 2014, at 01:34, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 4/10/2014 6:45 PM, Jörn Hees wrote:
>> what do you think about officially supporting Semantic Versioning?
>> (http://semver.org )
>
> It is a nice fantasy.
;) didn’t say it’s perfect, just that it’s widely used and we should support it.
I like
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 11:19:22 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Friday, April 11, 2014 5:04:28 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
[...]
> For the rest, Im not sure that you need my help in making a fool of
> yourself... Anyway since you are requesting said help, here goes:
Very strong words.
>> On
On Saturday, April 12, 2014 1:50:05 AM UTC+5:30, pete.b...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:40:22 PM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote:
>
> > It's called irony, and unfortunately Mark is reacting to an all-to-common
> > situation that GoogleGroups foists on unsuspecting posters like your
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 16:27:27 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
> Another reason I've heard of is to try to reduce support efforts.
>
> If you distribute something that's easy to modify, then people will.
The majority of people will treat your app as a black box. Of course, a
small minority (either ou
On 11/04/2014 22:33, blindanagram wrote:
Thanks, Mark and Terry, for your rapid responses.
An interesting thread.
Brian
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 11 April 2014 10:17, Sturla Molden wrote:
> Joshua Landau wrote:
>
>> However, if this really is your major blocker to using Python, I
>> suggest compiling with Cython.
>
> Cython restains all the code as text, e.g. to readable generate exceptions.
> Users can also still steal the extension mo
On 4/11/2014 5:33 PM, blindanagram wrote:
With:
l = [1,2,3]
this:
print('{0[0]:d}..{0[2]:d}'.format(l))
gives 1..3 but this:
print('{0[0]:d}..{0[-1]:d}'.format(l))
gives:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
builtins.TypeError: list indices must
On 11/04/2014 22:33, blindanagram wrote:
With:
l = [1,2,3]
this:
print('{0[0]:d}..{0[2]:d}'.format(l))
gives 1..3 but this:
print('{0[0]:d}..{0[-1]:d}'.format(l))
gives:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
builtins.TypeError: list indices must b
With:
l = [1,2,3]
this:
print('{0[0]:d}..{0[2]:d}'.format(l))
gives 1..3 but this:
print('{0[0]:d}..{0[-1]:d}'.format(l))
gives:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
builtins.TypeError: list indices must be integers, not str
which seems to me counterint
On Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:40:22 PM UTC-7, Rhodri James wrote:
> It's called irony, and unfortunately Mark is reacting to an all-to-common
> situation that GoogleGroups foists on unsuspecting posters like yourself.
People who say "I can't be bothered to correct this" while posting a wise a
Rustom Mody :
> Half-assed support in current languages does not imply any necessary
> problem in the idea -- just in the mainstream implementations of it.
>
> Then looking it up I find Go's goroutines have the same issue.
the promise of threads is that you only need to consider a single event
ou
On Friday, April 11, 2014 9:06:47 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rustom Mody:
> > On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:45:08 AM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
> >> On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:14:42 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
> >> > (1) oversimplification which makes it difficult to exten
On Friday, April 11, 2014 5:04:28 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I've been in plenty of mailing list forums where interleaved posting was
> required, but there's only so many times you can tell people off for
> being rude before you start coming across as rude yourself.
> It's one of those
On 2014-04-11, Sturla Molden wrote:
> alister wrote:
>
>> Concentrate on making the product (even) better rather than trying to
>> hide the unhideable.
>
> I think the number one reason for code obfuscation is an ignorant
> boss.
>
> Another reason might be to avoid the shame of showing crappy c
On 2014-04-11, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Sturla Molden
> wrote:
>> The only way to protect your code is never to ship anything.
>
> It's worth noting, as an aside, that this does NOT mean you don't
> produce or sell anything. You can keep your code secure by runnin
On 2014-04-11, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Wesley wrote:
>> Umm, just wanna make all .py files not human readable.
>>
>> Or, maybe need a tool like zend in php.
>
> The only reliable way to prevent a customer from reverse-engineering
> your software is to not give them the
On 2014-04-11, Roy Smith wrote:
> At a high level, threads and coroutines are really very similar. They
> are both independent execution paths in the same process. I guess the
> only real difference between them is that thread switching is mediated
> by the operating system, so it can happen
Mark H Harris wrote:
> Obfuscation (hiding) of your source is *bad*, usually done for one
> of the following reasons:
> 1) Boss is paranoid and fears loss of revenues due to intellectual
> property theft.
> 2) Boss is ignorant of reverse engineering strategies available to
> folks
On 11/04/2014 17:02, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:57 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
If you wish to interpret my words as baiting that's fine by me. From my
perspective I'm simply making a statement of fact.
It's almost now debatable whether you were metabaiting Steven into
telli
Mark H Harris wrote:
> This is the age of open source in computer science.
>
> It is far better to develop a strategy and culture of openness.
> Everyone benefits; especially your customers. I recommend the GPLv3
> license. I also advocate for copyleft.
I would not use GPL in a comme
On 4/11/14 11:02 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
It's almost now debatable whether you were metabaiting Steven into
telling you off for trolling the resident troll...
QOTW
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 2014-04-10, Rhodri James wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Apr 2014 18:18:56 +0100, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 9:36:40 PM UTC+5:30, trewio wrote:
>>
>>> How to extract files from U-Boot image file, LZMA-compressed?
>>>
>>> Is there a Python script that can do this properly?
>>
>> For
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:57 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> If you wish to interpret my words as baiting that's fine by me. From my
> perspective I'm simply making a statement of fact.
It's almost now debatable whether you were metabaiting Steven into
telling you off for trolling the resident troll.
On 11/04/2014 16:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:36 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
The simplest example: there's no general way to terminate a thread.
Hacks exist for some occasions, but they can hardly be considered
graceful.
Having followed python-list for some time now, I ha
On 11/04/2014 16:49, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:48:50 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 11/04/2014 10:25, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
Unicode!
Works perfectly in Python 3.3+ thanks to the excellent work done as a
result of http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0393/, the Fle
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:36 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> The simplest example: there's no general way to terminate a thread.
> Hacks exist for some occasions, but they can hardly be considered
> graceful.
Having followed python-list for some time now, I have to agree... you
can't terminate a thre
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:48:50 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 11/04/2014 10:25, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Unicode!
>>
>>
> Works perfectly in Python 3.3+ thanks to the excellent work done as a
> result of http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0393/, the Flexible
> String Representation, as
Rustom Mody :
> On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:45:08 AM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:14:42 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> > (1) oversimplification which makes it difficult to extend the design
>> > and handle all of the real-world contingencies
>>
>> This
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:19 AM, Michael Torrie wrote:
> Most end users will never know or care what you build the app with, even
> if you have a directory full of open .py files. 99% of the users of a
> popular ebook app called Calibre never know or care that it's made of
> python and that you c
On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:09 AM, Mark H Harris wrote:
>This is the age of open source in computer science.
>
>It is far better to develop a strategy and culture of openness. Everyone
> benefits; especially your customers. I recommend the GPLv3 license.
While I wholeheartedly agree with th
On 04/10/2014 07:29 PM, Wesley wrote:
> Hi all, Does python has any good obfuscate?
>
> Currently our company wanna release one product developed by python
> to our customer. But dont's wanna others see the py code.
>
> I googled for a while but mostly just say using pyc. Any better one?
>
> Our
On 4/10/14 8:29 PM, Wesley wrote:
Does python has any good obfuscate?
Others have answered this well, but I thought I would give you
another opinion, perhaps more direct.
Obfuscation (hiding) of your source is *bad*, usually done for one
of the following reasons:
1) Boss is pa
On 4/10/14 10:54 AM, Lalitha Prasad K wrote:
Dear List
Recently I was requested to teach python to a group of students of GIS
(Geographic Information Systems).
Adults? ... what age ranges?
Their knowledge of programming is
zero. The objective is to enable them to write plug-ins for GIS s
On 4/10/14 3:52 PM, pete.bee@gmail.com wrote:
Do you get paid to be a jerk, or is it just for yuks? If the latter, you're
not funny.
Mark is the c.l.python resident margin police. Think of him as a welcome
committee with an attitude.
:)
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pyt
alister wrote:
> Concentrate on making the product (even) better rather than trying to
> hide the unhideable.
I think the number one reason for code obfuscation is an ignorant boss.
Another reason might be to avoid the shame of showing crappy code to the
customer.
Sturla
--
https://mail.p
On 10/04/2014 21:52, pete.bee@gmail.com wrote:
Just awesome, not only do we have double line spacing and single line
paragraphs, we've also got top posting, oh boy am I a happy bunny :)
I'll leave someone3 else to explain, I just can't be bothered.
Do you get paid to be a jerk, or is
On 11/04/2014 14:06, Sturla Molden wrote:
wrote:
It's worth noting, as an aside, that this does NOT mean you don't
produce or sell anything. You can keep your code secure by running it
on a server and permitting users to access it; that's perfectly safe.
Perfectly? :-)
Unless you have a h
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 18:29:21 -0700, Wesley wrote:
> Hi all,
> Does python has any good obfuscate?
>
> Currently our company wanna release one product developed by python to
> our customer. But dont's wanna others see the py code.
>
> I googled for a while but mostly just say using pyc. Any bet
wrote:
>> It's worth noting, as an aside, that this does NOT mean you don't
>> produce or sell anything. You can keep your code secure by running it
>> on a server and permitting users to access it; that's perfectly safe.
>>
> Perfectly? :-)
Unless you have a heartbleed :)
Sturla
--
https:/
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:39 PM, Tim Chase
wrote:
> On 2014-04-11 11:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> >> That's equivalent to being told "Don't ever delete any of your
>> >> code, just comment it out". I don't care who's saying that, it's
>> >> bad advice.
>> >
>> > The correct analogy: "Dont ever d
On 11/04/2014 10:25, wxjmfa...@gmail.com wrote:
Unicode!
Works perfectly in Python 3.3+ thanks to the excellent work done as a
result of http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0393/, the Flexible
String Representation, as we, with one noticable exception, are
perfectly well aware of.
--
M
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 10:32 PM, wrote:
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Sturla Molden
>> wrote:
>> > The only way to protect your code is never to ship anything.
>>
>> It's worth noting, as an aside, that this does NOT mean you don't
>> produce or sell anything. Yo
On 2014-04-11 13:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
> I have seen plenty of cultures where people are unaware of the value
> of interleaved/bottom posting, but so far, not one where anyone has
> actually required it. Not one.
The only time I've seen top-posting required (though there was
nothing about trim
Ian Kelly wrote:
> How is that last statement different from the one I made above, that
> you disagreed with?
Who says I disagreed?
But to answer you question, it depends on the level of safety you need:
Total secrecy or just enough protection to make it not worthwhile to access
the code?
St
In article <53477f29$0$29993$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com>,
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> I think coroutines are awesome, but like all advanced concepts, sometimes
> they can be abused, and sometimes they are hard to understand not because
> they are hard to understand in and of themselves, b
On 2014-04-11 11:34, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >> That's equivalent to being told "Don't ever delete any of your
> >> code, just comment it out". I don't care who's saying that, it's
> >> bad advice.
> >
> > The correct analogy: "Dont ever delete content from the
> > repository"
>
> No -- the
Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Sturla Molden
> wrote:
> > The only way to protect your code is never to ship anything.
>
> It's worth noting, as an aside, that this does NOT mean you don't
> produce or sell anything. You can keep your code secure by running it
> on a s
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 12:46:05 +0100, Paul Rudin wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 22:42:14 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>
>>> In middle-eastern society women are expected to dress heavier than in
>>> the West. A few years ago a girl went to school in France with a scarf
>>>
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 21:01:46 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:46 PM, alister
> wrote:
>> Right up to the point when someone forwards on an internal email chain
>> to an external customer without bothering to prune out the bit where
>> someone (usually an engineer like myse
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 22:42:14 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>> In middle-eastern society women are expected to dress heavier than in
>> the West. A few years ago a girl went to school in France with a scarf
>> and she was penalized.
>
> Citation please. I think this is bogu
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 04:22:49 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 3:17 AM, Sturla Molden
> wrote:
>> Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> The only reliable way to prevent a customer from reverse-engineering
>>> your software is to not give them the software.
>>
>> Not really...
>
> On Fri, Apr
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 22:54:23 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> What I am pointing out is that if one gets so besotted with irritation
> as to lose coherence, its unlikely that any useful communication will
> ensue.
This, a million times.
If all we do is be curmudgeons who complain about GG's poor post
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 22:42:14 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> In middle-eastern society women are expected to dress heavier than in
> the West. A few years ago a girl went to school in France with a scarf
> and she was penalized.
Citation please. I think this is bogus, although given how obnoxious som
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:46 PM, alister
wrote:
> Right up to the point when someone forwards on an internal email chain to
> an external customer without bothering to prune out the bit where someone
> (usually an engineer like myself) has stated (bluntly) that what the
> salesman is proposing wil
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 06:34:46 +0100, Paul Rudin wrote:
>
> It's not necessarily a bad idea to retain context in corporate emails.
> Messages tend to get forwarded to people other than the original
> recipient(s), and the context can be very helpful.
>
Right up to the point when someone forwards on
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 3:17 AM, Sturla Molden wrote:
> Ian Kelly wrote:
>
>> The only reliable way to prevent a customer from reverse-engineering
>> your software is to not give them the software.
>
> Not really...
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 3:17 AM, Sturla Molden wrote:
> It depends on the threa
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> It is, in a way, the corporate equivalent of "RTFM", only enshrined as
> normal practice rather than seen as a deliberate put-down of somebody who
> hasn't done their homework. And because it's normal practice, even those
> who know better
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 23:39:24 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Chris Angelico
> wrote:
[...]
>> Then you were told that by someone who does not understand email.
>> That's equivalent to being told "Don't ever delete any of your code,
>> just comment it out". I don't care
On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 21:37:22 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Right. Its true that when I was at a fairly large corporate, I was not
> told: "Please always top post!"
That's only because they are ignorant of the terminology of top- bottom-
and interleaved posting. If they knew the term, they would sa
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Sturla Molden wrote:
> The only way to protect your code is never to ship anything.
It's worth noting, as an aside, that this does NOT mean you don't
produce or sell anything. You can keep your code secure by running it
on a server and permitting users to access i
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> I have an issue with the use of coroutines. I think they are to evil.
>
> They are to evil ... as what? To evil as chalk is to cheese? Black is to
> white? Bees are to honey?
I think coroutines are one of those things that don't fit the human mind.
A class with a co
Unicode!
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Joshua Landau wrote:
> However, if this really is your major blocker to using Python, I
> suggest compiling with Cython.
Cython restains all the code as text, e.g. to readable generate exceptions.
Users can also still steal the extension modules and use them in their own
code. In general, Cython
Wesley wrote:
> Does python has any good obfuscate?
>
> Currently our company wanna release one product developed by python to
> our customer. But dont's wanna others see the py code.
>
> I googled for a while but mostly just say using pyc. Any better one?
It depends on the threat and how co
Ian Kelly wrote:
> The only reliable way to prevent a customer from reverse-engineering
> your software is to not give them the software.
Not really. You just need to make it so difficult that it is not worth the
effort. In that case they will go away and do something else instead. At
least if
在 2014年4月8日星期二UTC+8上午10时21分24秒，Wesley写道：
> Hi all,
>
> I have a question regarding gdb python.
>
> I use gdb7.7 and python2.7.6.
>
>
>
> Here is snippet that py-print one variable:
>
> (gdb) py-print self
>
> local 'self' = 0x7f860614b220>, timer513645288=<_Timeout at remote 0xb42f760>,
On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:59:00 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>
>> I have seen plenty of cultures where people are unaware of the value of
>> interleaved/bottom posting, but so far, not one where anyone has
>> actually required it. Not one.
>
>
On Fri, 11 Apr 2014 13:59:00 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> I have seen plenty of cultures where people are unaware of the value of
> interleaved/bottom posting, but so far, not one where anyone has
> actually required it. Not one.
I've been in plenty of mailing list forums where interleaved pos
On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:45:08 AM UTC+5:30, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Friday, April 11, 2014 2:14:42 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> > (1) oversimplification which makes it difficult to extend the design
> > and handle all of the real-world contingencies
>
> This I dont...
I meant "D
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