[Puppet Users] Re: puppet can not set password for a local user account. Plus puppet can not add members to a group

2011-04-15 Thread chakkerz
up1"], } group { 'group1': ensure => 'present', gid=> '101', members => 'test1,test2,test3, test4' } though I'm on puppet 2.6 and a Scientific Linux 6.0 system ... the same thing works fi

[Puppet Users] Re: auth.conf and file_metadata

2010-06-20 Thread chakkerz
> The example auth.conf that came with Ubuntu is 2.3k and very well commented.   > Would posting that help? If you've got one handy, yes :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-us...@google

[Puppet Users] Re: How to pass a array to define?

2010-06-20 Thread chakkerz
array (though i believe Silviu has that covered), but hopefully it helps a little :) PS yes i realise what a pain having non standard LDAP uid and gid can be. Cheers chakkerz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To po

[Puppet Users] auth.conf and file_metadata

2010-06-20 Thread chakkerz
(because i deploy an RPM) is generated for me. However it is a default file, and i'd love to know what to put in it. I can't find any documentation on the subject. Anyone have a link for me to look at please? Cheers chakkerz -- You received this message because you are subscribed

[Puppet Users] Re: excluding modules from filebucketing

2010-04-08 Thread chakkerz
No, that is exactly what i wanted :) Thanks for that! Christian On Apr 9, 4:32 pm, Patrick wrote: > On Apr 8, 2010, at 11:11 PM, chakkerz wrote: > > > > > G'day all > > > I've got the following two lines in my site.pp: > > > # Define the bucket

[Puppet Users] excluding modules from filebucketing

2010-04-08 Thread chakkerz
es, short of nuking the current destination file before i transfer the new copy (i figure that might do the trick, haven't checked though). Cheers chakkerz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, s

[Puppet Users] Re: Strange order dependency

2010-04-08 Thread chakkerz
/$filename", cwd => "/", } } So it transfers to /tmp/tarball; then extracts tarball (which is tared so it extracts /home); and then it removes the temp file. The same can work for your /etc directory, and that way when you deploy your ntp configuration

[Puppet Users] fileserver.conf possible bug

2010-03-24 Thread chakkerz
erver-0.25.4-1.el5 I had a very quick google to see if this was a bug, but didn't see anything, figured i'd mention. Apologies if i'm wasting time :) Cheers chakkerz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To pos

[Puppet Users] (Module custom(/custom)) using the deprecated 'plugins' directory for ruby extensions; please move to 'lib'

2010-01-07 Thread chakkerz
t ... i'm apprehensive :) ) Cheers chakkerz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to puppet-users+unsubscr...@go

[Puppet Users] Re: Notify someone on failure

2009-08-31 Thread chakkerz
Very nice! I think we can make that work. Thanks for that!!! chakkerz On Aug 26, 8:44 pm, Gerard Bernabeu wrote: > Hi, > > I'm using nagios to monitor puppet by runing the script below in each host. > The script looks at the log file, it returns 0 if everything is OK or 1

[Puppet Users] Re: Notify someone on failure

2009-08-25 Thread chakkerz
Yeah, the timestamp is useful but only shows a complete failure, that is one in which the host didn't make contact (i could be wrong). And i had been using that, but i discovered this morning that one of my hosts was working, but it would hit an error and fail. The timestamp didn't give it away:

[Puppet Users] Notify someone on failure

2009-08-25 Thread chakkerz
would be a way. Something i just thought of was monit - which i could get to look at the log ... but that seems to be a rather long way around... Any thoughts? Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

[Puppet Users] mailalias ... re-running newaliases despite no changes being made

2009-08-13 Thread chakkerz
Hello there I've got a module that sets the root mail destination, and thereafter runs newaliases: class shared-mailaliases { if ($skip_mailaliases != "true") { mailalias { "root": ensure=> present,

[Puppet Users] Re: Variables not getting initialised

2009-08-12 Thread chakkerz
of course it can not reach that scope) or because of order of evaluation. That said i could be wrong, but it does look like it is fixing my problem ... So, thank you :) chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

[Puppet Users] Variables not getting initialised

2009-08-06 Thread chakkerz
Hello there I'm having a problem (again). At my site we are maintaining RHEL, CentOS and Solaris hosts, with in the future possibly some FreeBSD also being added into the mix. To this end instead of constantly branching whenever running a command on the console (or remembering where it is located

[Puppet Users] Re: Could not call fileserver.describe: #

2009-08-03 Thread chakkerz
It goes awesome! Thanks again chakkerz On Aug 3, 1:08 pm, chakkerz wrote: > Good Call, i've switched to mongrel, we'll see how that goes. > > Cheers > chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribe

[Puppet Users] Re: Could not call fileserver.describe: #

2009-08-02 Thread chakkerz
Good Call, i've switched to mongrel, we'll see how that goes. Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-us

[Puppet Users] Could not call fileserver.describe: #

2009-08-02 Thread chakkerz
uppet-server-0.24.8-1.el5.1 puppet-0.24.8-1.el5.1 [r...@tangelo cron.d]# rpm -q ruby ruby-1.8.5-5.el5_3.7 [r...@tangelo cron.d]# rpm -q facter facter-1.5.5-1.el5 Any thoughts? Links to other posts that are relevant? Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received

[Puppet Users] Re: Another Redundant Puppet Master Servers Thread

2009-06-11 Thread chakkerz
Sounds sensible and straight forward. Thanks for that! chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To u

[Puppet Users] Another Redundant Puppet Master Servers Thread

2009-06-11 Thread chakkerz
specifying two hosts in the config (and what does that mean to certificates)? Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to pupp

[Puppet Users] Re: running and configuring puppetd as a daemon at a set time

2009-05-20 Thread chakkerz
Yeah ... that's what i thought. Thanks though :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group,

[Puppet Users] --enablerepo=epel*

2009-05-20 Thread chakkerz
t disabled repo? using the packages type, i mean i could use exec, but that would require me to know something about what the package contains which could make it a lot of work, unless i want puppet to constantly run the command... Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~---

[Puppet Users] running and configuring puppetd as a daemon at a set time

2009-05-17 Thread chakkerz
in? Or can i set the check-in time (i may have just missed the option)? cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to pu

[Puppet Users] Re: iptables anyone?

2009-04-23 Thread chakkerz
e identical, so that cuts down on managing files (downside being that i don't look for the destination addresses) I've been thinking about using templates, but this complicates matters... I was envisaging something like the recipe for down the line, nice that the doco e

[Puppet Users] Re: Puppet and pushing changes

2009-04-07 Thread chakkerz
g like this we modify our cfengine instance and then hook onto each box that needs the change urgently and run it by hand. Puppet will hopefully change things ... especially with this notion i'm putting in place :) Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You r

[Puppet Users] Re: Puppet and pushing changes

2009-04-03 Thread chakkerz
hecks the file for urgency variables, and 3 minutes after having been touched it replaces it with the non-emergency one and restarts puppetmaster if needed... But implementing push ... you're playing with fire mate :) Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~

[Puppet Users] Re: platform(in)dependent facts

2009-04-01 Thread chakkerz
Upon further consideration ... and this is probably demented ... i could deploy helper scripts which are platform specific and use bash, and name them uniformly and then call them from my facts... one obvious downside is that puppet will fail first run... chakkerz

[Puppet Users] platform(in)dependent facts

2009-04-01 Thread chakkerz
Hello there I want (erm ... need) to write some facts to verify certain packages are installed. I don't think the packages type does the trick because i don't want to force the installation so much as lock down some things. But i don't see how to do this platform independent between solaris and r

[Puppet Users] Re: Puppet and pushing changes

2009-04-01 Thread chakkerz
is the least of your worries (why attack individual hosts if you have the master key?) cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to

[Puppet Users] Re: too many open files

2009-03-03 Thread chakkerz
Hurrah! :) Thanks for that chakkerz On Mar 4, 3:07 am, Luke Kanies wrote: > On Feb 26, 2009, at 9:23 PM, chakkerz wrote: > > > > > i sounds extremely exactly likehttp://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/1844 > > It's probably more this: > > http://pr

[Puppet Users] Re: too many open files

2009-03-01 Thread chakkerz
Hans pointed out that pfiles on the client might be an idea. If i watch it, i get to 255 open files before it tanks. Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group.

[Puppet Users] Re: too many open files

2009-02-26 Thread chakkerz
i sounds extremely exactly like http://projects.reductivelabs.com/issues/1844 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To

[Puppet Users] too many open files

2009-02-26 Thread chakkerz
pensolaris 11 are both running 0.24.7 ... any thoughts? cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com

[Puppet Users] Re: directory creation - difference in operation between RHEL5 and Solaris

2009-02-26 Thread chakkerz
Despite originally appearing to not work, it actually does. I modified the wrong part of the file. Thanks for that AJ. ... no i have to get solaris to be able to access the files in modules and i'll be ready to deploy :D chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~

[Puppet Users] Re: directory creation - difference in operation between RHEL5 and Solaris

2009-02-26 Thread chakkerz
no good with just ensure => directory, on solaris i get it to create the file (so no change): r...@puppetsun:~# rm -rf /var/log/sysinfo r...@puppetsun:~# /opt/csw/bin/puppetd -vt | grep sysinfo notice: //Node[default]/defaultnode/shared-default/sysinfo/File[/var/ log/sysinfo]/ensure: created r..

[Puppet Users] Re: directory creation - difference in operation between RHEL5 and Solaris

2009-02-25 Thread chakkerz
i see... i'll give it a shot . Thanks for the input. chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com

[Puppet Users] Re: puppetdoc - no response

2009-02-24 Thread chakkerz
Hello there Brice I think i see, i'm still not sure how i can then actually do something useful with it, (but I'm slightly on the tired side right now, so maybe tomorrow it will fall into place). Thanks for your help... at least i'm getting some output n

[Puppet Users] directory creation - difference in operation between RHEL5 and Solaris

2009-02-24 Thread chakkerz
The following code, file { "/var/log/sysinfo": owner => root, group => root, mode => 755, ensure => [ present, directory ], } on RHEL5 generates a di

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris ... not doing much

2009-02-18 Thread chakkerz
[motd] at /etc/puppet/modules/motd/manifests/init.pp:16 and stacks more like it... fileserver.conf contains the host for modules though: [modules] allow puppetks4.example.org allow puppetnut.example.org allow puppetsun.example.org chakkerz

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris ... not doing much

2009-02-18 Thread chakkerz
Hello there James it appears i'm on 1.5.2 ... but i updated to 1.5.4 now ... and it is looking good. Thanks for that chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group.

[Puppet Users] Solaris ... not doing much

2009-02-18 Thread chakkerz
s include redhat-logrotate_d include redhat-inittab } And while the redhat stuff works swimmingly, the solaris works ... just doesn't happen... Any ideas how to address it ... i note there are some libraries that are failing to load ... are they ruby related or ??? (It doesn&

[Puppet Users] Re: puppetdoc - no response

2009-02-18 Thread chakkerz
PS: if i add something like: # = Class: ntp_conf or # = Class: # ntp_conf i get: [r...@puppetbeta puppet]# puppetdoc --all --verbose --debug modules/ ntp_conf/manifests/init.pp info: scanning: ["modules/ntp_conf/manifests/init.pp"] Could not generate documentation: undefined method `line' for

[Puppet Users] puppetdoc - no response

2009-02-18 Thread chakkerz
the command wrong. So for example, i execute `puppetdoc /etc/puppet/modules/ntp_conf/manifest/init.pp` or `puppetdoc --all /etc/puppet/manifest/site.pp` ... neither responds with anything Cheers, chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are

[Puppet Users] symlink issue - creates fine initially, but subsequent errors

2009-02-18 Thread chakkerz
t. force => "true", seems (sounds) heavy handed..., though it does the trick: file { "/var/bb/bb": force => "true", ensure=> "/var/bb/$bbVersi

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-17 Thread chakkerz
Ohad ... no they weren't. It still isn't working but it looks like the SSL thing is sorted. Thanks everyone for their help. chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users&quo

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-12 Thread chakkerz
Yeah ...the built in mechanism fails worse --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-12 Thread chakkerz
i've copied the ca.pem from the master to the client. Now i'm back to the familar: r...@puppetsun:/var/lib/puppet/ssl# /opt/csw/bin/puppetd -vt info: Retrieving plugins warning: Certificate validation failed; consider using the certname configuration option err: /File[/var/lib/puppet/lib]: Failed

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-11 Thread chakkerz
dd_file Puppet[:localcacert] Alas this means very little to me... Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googleg

[Puppet Users] Re: selinux problem? which appeared for "no apparent reason" and which I can't kilil

2009-02-11 Thread chakkerz
by default...). Cheers chakkerz On Feb 12, 8:20 am, "David Dyer-Bennet" wrote: > Darned thing is suddenly failing.  We had a reboot last night, and I > changed a couple of files today too, so either one could somehow be > responsible.  But I can't figure out how from this crash.

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-10 Thread chakkerz
tarting the daemon and re- signing the cert. the server has: [r...@puppetbeta /]# puppetca --list --all + puppetsun.its.uq.edu.au + puppetbeta.its.uq.edu.au Cheers, and thanks for all the help on the channel, Damm, Andrew and fujin in particular. chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~-

[Puppet Users] Re: Puppet Questions

2009-02-10 Thread chakkerz
affic in (see security above) make a push less desirable. Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-10 Thread chakkerz
Hello again --config makes no difference. Same error persists. Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to pu

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-09 Thread chakkerz
/puppet.conf r...@puppetsun:/opt/csw/bin# Thanks for the thought though :) chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to pu

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-09 Thread chakkerz
ppetbeta ssl]# puppet --version 0.24.7 Slave: r...@puppetsun:/opt/csw/bin# ./puppet --version 0.24.7 What's the certname option it talks about? cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

[Puppet Users] Re: Solaris SSL error

2009-02-09 Thread chakkerz
sign ? shouldn't the error of different CA's occur then, rather than after it has been accepted by the master, when the slave tries to get updates? I'll do some digging and see if i can find a guide that tells me more... Cheers though chakkerz --~--~-~--~~--

[Puppet Users] Solaris SSL error

2009-02-08 Thread chakkerz
d debug: Finishing transaction 74984300 with 0 changes err: Could not retrieve catalog: private method `chomp' called for nil:NilClass I gather the certs aren't trusted. and what is the certname configuration option... i ran a search on the puppet site and

[Puppet Users] Re: Merging Directories

2009-02-07 Thread chakkerz
em in mind chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to p

[Puppet Users] Re: mailalias ... not doing anything???

2009-02-05 Thread chakkerz
yeah ... "ensure => present" helped, i must have misunderstood the doco... Also, the name does not need to be there Thanks for the help chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

[Puppet Users] Re: Excluding .svn directories with recursive file management

2009-02-03 Thread chakkerz
ot;.svn" } Note the ignore ... though i really don't think i'm adding to Pete's post :) cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group.

[Puppet Users] mailalias ... not doing anything???

2009-02-03 Thread chakkerz
# grep root: /etc/aliases #root: marc what am i missing? from the recipes i've looked at (and the one post on here which i just completely failed to understand) i'm not gathering what the magic incantation is that's lacking. cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~--

[Puppet Users] Re: Merging Directories

2009-02-02 Thread chakkerz
reduces typos :) Thanks for that, chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send email to puppet-users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this gr

[Puppet Users] Re: Merging Directories

2009-02-01 Thread chakkerz
wd => "/var/bb/bb/", # require => file["/var/bb/ $bbVersion.linux/etc"], # } cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "

[Puppet Users] Re: Merging Directories

2009-02-01 Thread chakkerz
ing in the doco that hints at how (i'm thinking ensure might go towards it, but i'm not certain how ...) Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post t

[Puppet Users] Re: Merging Directories

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
    } exec { "/bin/mv linux_etc/* etc/ && rmdir linux_etc": cwd => "/var/blah/blah", requir

[Puppet Users] Re: Merging Directories

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
ailed: Could not set file on ensure: No such file or directory - /var/bb/bbc1.9e-btf_linux/etc.puppettmp at /var/lib/puppet/ modules/bigbrother/manifests/init.pp:69 sadly makes sense. I must have not been doing something else right when it was "working&quo

[Puppet Users] Re: modules not processing in order

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
t; "/", ## require => file["/var/bb/bbc1.9e-btf_linux/init"], # } # } } } } define bb-hosts($ipaddress, $fqdn) { file { "/var/bb/bb/etc/bb

[Puppet Users] Re: modules not processing in order

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
That said, it does not appear to honour the require's i'm using consistently... chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to this group, send e

[Puppet Users] Re: modules not processing in order

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
nevermind i found http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/TypeReference#available-metaparameters from another post. before and require ... duh sorry to waste people's time :) chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subsc

[Puppet Users] modules not processing in order

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
/bb/bbc1.9e-btf_linux/init]/ensure: created notice: //Node[puppetslave.example.org]/defaultnode/shared-default/ bigbrother/File[/var/bb]/ensure: created Is there a way of ensuring the module is processed in order? cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received

[Puppet Users] Merging Directories

2009-01-29 Thread chakkerz
"puppet:///blah/blah_v2_linux/etc/blahsys.sh", "puppet:///blah/blah_v2_linux/etc/blahsys.local", ] } }

[Puppet Users] module creation script

2009-01-28 Thread chakkerz
uot;true") { } } ... obviously there is a general preference for the { to be up one line, but that's a minor change :) I don't know if it's worthwhile to have there... anyways, thought i'd post just in case. chakkerz --~--~-~--~~---

[Puppet Users] Re: creating a custom type to replace a line in a file

2009-01-19 Thread chakkerz
HAHA!! it works You the man! I've updated http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/PuppetTemplating with the code i generated for this (slightly trimmed, but still verbose) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the

[Puppet Users] replacing a line in a file

2009-01-14 Thread chakkerz
ad, and the l.chomp does what it sounds like, but then ... i really dong get what happens ... well, i guess it's a for loop which checks if each line matches old, and depending on this sets a value ... but given my minutes of ruby coding i can't see how this works. When i get it working i pr

[Puppet Users] Re: facter variable not being used

2009-01-12 Thread chakkerz
PS: I've updated http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/AddingFacts to reflect how you can find out what values the client uses cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Us

[Puppet Users] Re: facter variable not being used

2009-01-12 Thread chakkerz
ot;TRUE" instead of "true" ... which could foreseeably mean an update might do damage... Cheers chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Puppet Users" group. To post to thi

[Puppet Users] facter variable not being used

2009-01-11 Thread chakkerz
RLIB=/var/lib/puppet/lib/facter [r...@puppetslave puppet]# facter | grep deploy deploysudoers => false [r...@puppetslave puppet]# ls /var/lib/puppet/classes/ DoNotDeploySudoers /var/lib/puppet/classes/DoNotDeploySudoers but sudoers is still modified... Firstly, most importantly, how do i fix

[Puppet Users] modules per OS

2009-01-08 Thread chakkerz
g?) so how can i put the linux modules into a linux area? I realize i'm probably dense, and my example is a bit contrived, but i don't want the mess cfengine has become so i want the OSs separated... :) Any thoughts appreciated chakkerz --~--~-~--~~~---