On Mon, Jul 31, 2000 at 09:50:11PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> So Larry is doing most of the evaluation for us. He's the one who
> gave us the good things in the Perl language we have now. He'll be
> the one vetoing the ridiculous ideas.
Larry said: "Perl5 was my rewrite of Perl, Perl6 wi
"Michael Mathews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Unlike many programming languages Perl does not currently implement true
> multiline comments. This can be confusing/tedious to programmers.
I fail to see this. What is confusing?
As has been pointed out earlier, with multi-line comments like in C
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > continuations, generators and co-routines.
>
> Could someone point me to a reference on these, please? My CS text
> collection's rather spotty and doesn't cover this stuff.
The Icon Programming Language
Ralph E. Griswold, Madge T. Gri
Nick Ing-Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> perl.exe + perl.dll or .../bin/perl + libperl.so
RFC: Should the perl program be called differently (e.g., perl6) to
allow sites to run 5 and 6 in parallel until their migration is
completed (if ever)?
-- Johan
Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Well theres a difference there when you look at the op tree. That is a call
> to a sub, whereas otherwise it is a op.
Isn't that an internals issue?
-- Johan
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:53:02AM +0100, Hildo Biersma wrote:
> If functions could distinguish between
> 'wantarray' and 'wanthash' this would be easy to do.
This reminds me -- once there was a proposal to extend the wantarray
functionality on p5p. Anyone remember? Anyone want to turn it into a
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 07:04:05AM -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote:
> >This reminds me -- once there was a proposal to extend the wantarray
> >functionality on p5p. Anyone remember? Anyone want to turn it into an
> >RFC?
>
> It was Damian's, no?
I bet he has a paper on it.
-- Johan
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Theoretically, we'd like to make subs run as fast as ops.
I'd say that the distinction between subs and ops should be dropped
completely. Ops can be used as subs, subs as ops. The only
distinction in the way either is used.
We may need a better way to de
Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Of course, that example might in itself be sufficient reason
> to completely redesign the regex syntax!
Perl uses the term "pattern matching" since day one. This opens the
possibility of extending pattern matching with other, not neccessarily
regex bas
Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >The open() and opendir() functions would have to be altered to take one
> >argument (not two) and return the corresponding file object or undef.
>
> Actually, open() currently CAN have just one parameter.
Does that matter much? After all, we may chang
Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At 09:01 AM 8/3/00 -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote:
> >Syscalls should use errno. Others may vary.
>
> If we get a good-looking exception throwing/catching mechanism and
> syntax, this may not matter.
try {
java
}
catch (Exception e) {
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> More importantly, the more primitives that perl provides, the wilder
> and more useful things people will be able to do.
Not quite. Its the functions that are provided that matter, not
whether they are primitives or not[1]. A small set of primitives wit
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> At 07:21 PM 8/3/00 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
> >Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > Theoretically, we'd like to make subs run as fast as ops.
> >I'd say that the distinction between subs and o
John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> But a standardized macro facility would be nice. Although --
> wouldn't it have to parse perl? Or else have a wholly distinct
> grammar?
Several macro processors exist and are easily available. I do not see
the need to duplicate (parts of) their function
Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >While a function style or quoted form comment might seem clever,
> >and even Perlish due to its syntax, it doesn't help the author of
> >the code/comments readily distinguish them. What good are comments
> >if you can't find them when you need them?
Steve Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 08:54:35PM +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
> >try {
> > java
> >}
> >catch (Exception e) {
> > think again
> >}
>
> I like this. It's perl
Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> sub func {
> my( $foo, @bar ) = @_ ;
> blah ;
> }
>
> becomes:
>
> sub func( $foo, @bar ) {
> blah ;
> }
I also hope that
sub func : method {
my( $self, $foo, @b
=head1 TITLE
Named operators versus functions
=head1 VERSION
Maintainer: Johan Vromans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 04 Aug 2000
Version: 1
Mailing List: perl6-language
Number:
=head1 ABSTRACT
Perl distinguishes named operators and functions. For Perl6, this
disctinction
Ted Ashton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How often does the return value from chomp or chop get used?
# Remove possible trailing slash.
$file .= $possible_slash if ($possible_slash = chop($file)) ne "/";
Of course, TMTOWTDI.
-- Johan
"J. David Blackstone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How many of those large projects have you participated in? How many
> people do you work with that you have to constantly cajole and prod to
> "use strict;"? It is indeed an issue, in several ways.
I've done several large projects and it ha
"J. David Blackstone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Notice that the $x in one_x refers either to the global $x if called
> from the main program, or to the "local" $x in two_x when called
> from there.
Wrong. It always refers to the global $x. But that global $x has
sometimes a localized value.
Nathan Wiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So will these be "automatically-my()ed"? Or will you have to say:
>
>sub whois (my $user) {
># ...
>}
>
> This seems more consistent (but there's that dang my() again!) :-)
What would be the semantics if 'my' were left out? Would it be
[Quoting Hildo Biersma, on August 4 2000, 08:40, in "Re: try/catch (Was: "]
> Yes, but... this is largely casued by the fact that Java requires you to
> declare any uncaught parameters on your method specification, and this
> tends to have a nasty oil-slick effect.
>
> If you do it the C++ way, y
Steve Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:07:00PM -0400, John Porter wrote:
> > I don't mind cpp too much; but I'd really like something much
> > more powerful than cpp. Hmm -- cpp++??
>
> m4.
Yes.
> m4 is better than cpp, and was intended to be a general macro
>
"Kyle R . Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> use self => 'self';
> use self => 'this';
Of course, if you _really_ want to avoid religious wars, you would
need a non-selfish pragma name in the first place.
-- Johan
Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> However, cpp has the significant advantage that its active syntax is
> designed to be embedded in a programming language and are Perl comments.
> This is *not* true of m4, which would be horribly, horribly confused by a
> Perl script.
I fail to see this
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> It tooks me quite a bit of camel-petting to find the right function,
> when I first needed it.
To me, this indicates a severe documentation problem.
Remember BASIC? The command to remove a file was KILL.
-- Johan
[The original subject was: Sublist autosubscribe, but that was
rejected by the mailing list manager.]
I would plea for autosubscribing perl6-language list members to every
sublist that gets spawned. The reason is continuity.
Currently, when a new sublist is announced, it takes some time to get
John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think this should mean what it means in Icon, namely, that
> $x < $y evaluates to false if $x >= $y, and evaluates to
> "$y (but true)" if $x < $y.
Icon also allows $x == ( 1 | 2 ), meaning ($x == 1) || ($x == 2).
-- Johan
> The solution is simple: return hashes instead of lists.
Hash ref, I may hope?
localtime->{year}
-- Johan
Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> @a = @b || @c should 'work'. In P5 it puts @b in scalar context and
> thus evaluates as the number of elements in @b if there are any.
Define 'work'.
if (@b) { @a = @b } else { @a = @c }
$a[$_] = $b[$_] || $c[$_] foreach (0..max(@a,@b,@c))
...oth
Perl6 RFC Librarian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
I like this proposal, although I do have a lot of remarks.
Consider them constructive!
> The C<$time> specifier can be followed by a C<$timezone> argument,
s/<$time>/<$format>/
> which returns the date relative to that timezone. By default, the t
Perl6 RFC Librarian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> There are times when one may need (or desire) to change the shell used
> for interpretation, as well as force shell interpretation, regardless
> of optimization, for consitency's sake.
print `fancysh -c 'your uninterpreted and unoptiomized sh
On Sun, Aug 06, 2000 at 01:10:23PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote:
> So you see why we need a persistent format() function. However, I think
> your real issue is a one-time call that just changes the format
> temporarily:
>
> print $date->strftime('%H:%M'); # print the time
> print "$date";
On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 12:16:22AM -0400, Michael Mathews wrote:
> Here's a thought. Wouldn't this be cool (see below)? The idea is that in
> Perl 6 you should be able to read from a file handle one character or one
> line at a time (just like you can in Perl 5) BUT if you just go ahead and
> use
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So? It's an op. Lists can be passed any way we want. :)
In what respect would that be different from a function?
(cf. RFC 26).
-- Johan
Uri Guttman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> MP> pod2usage is the call I THINK you are refering to. Who cares if it is
> MP> slow? I'll bet that if you are writting to the screen or a file, THAT's
> MP> the slow part, not traipsing through the file parsing for POD. It might
> MP> make an int
Mike Pastore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Which is the reason I suggest Perl++ as a name for the language, instead
> of Perl6. :)
Be reminded that Perl++ will increment Perl, but return the _current_
value.
-- Johan
Jason Elbaum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Perl regexps support the following features, though they're a bit
> obscure to my tastes...
>
> (from perlre:)
> \l lowercase next char (think vi)
Actually, this has little to do with regexes, it a string issue.
> ...but Perl doesn't offe
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 07:04:50AM -0400, Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> $quoted = qr/(['"]).*?\2/;
> @a = $str =~ /($quoted)/gp;
>
> Here //p is the "postponed" flag. Put (?p{$quoted}) instead of
> $quoted to get this semantic now (or some other char).
$quoted = qr/(['"]).*?\1/;
@a = $str =~ /(
On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 04:42:56AM -0400, Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> These are just user-defined ops. You should be able to overwrite the
> normal ops, as in:
>
> sub match_all {
> use re_ops 'overload_usual_ops';
> "(" . group(1, [ 'a' .. 'z' ] * [3,5] ) . ")"
> }
>
> Will this go?
On Wed, Aug 09, 2000 at 04:20:32PM -0400, Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> It is not clear though how to design concise-but-no-line-noise
> notation for \w etc. But qr/ \( ( [a-z]{3,5} ) \) / may become
>
> "(" (.) group(1, [[ 'a' .. 'z' ]] (*) [3,5] ) (.) ")"
>
> here (.) is the ASCII substitution
Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> As I understand things:
>>
>> BLOCK1 andthen BLOCK2
>>
>> evaluates BLOCK1 and then if BLOCK1 evaluates to "true" evaluates
>> BLOCK2. If BLOCK2 evaluates to "true" we're done. If BLOCK2
>> evaluates to "false", then BL
Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 2) "express" should guarantee that, before it creates a variable
> names $FOO, it first calls "local" on any existing $FOO
Why, if the variable is lexical (see 3)?
-- Johan
John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Huh? They need to be "globals", because the "with" mechanism
> is going to have to be able to write them into a symbol table.
> You can't do this with lexicals.
Yes, you can. For an approach like this, the hash needs to be a
pseudo-hash anyway.
-- Joha
"Stephen P. Potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> * Socket functions (such as C, C, etc) should be moved from
> the core to modules/libraries.
> * Math functions (such as C, C, C, etc) should be moved
> from the core to modules/libraries.
> * IPC functions (such as C, C, C, etc) should be
>
Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Okay, what if C simply aliased its hash argument to a
> localized %_ (remember that one?):
>
> with (%ws) {
> print $_{height}; # prints $ws{height}
> print $height; # perl5 visibility rules
>
Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Read my lips: GOOD THING.
Do we have an RFC yet that proposes Perl to be easier parsable?
Damian?
-- Johan
Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think you can't just leave it at that; the implication of this
> requirement is that there should be a prototype for print's optional
> filehandle.
I count on Larry's promise to do something about the indirect object
stuff.
-- Johan
nt, printf, prototype, push, q, qq, qw, qx, redo,
> return, s, scalar, shift, sort, splice, split, study, sub, tie,
> tied, tr, undef, unless, unshift, untie, until, use, while, and y.
Johan Vromans added:
> Hmm. Quite a few of these should no longer be special:
>
> chop, defin
Tom Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> keys %HASH = LIST;
>
> is really
>
> @HASH{ LIST } = ();
Hmm, is it?
I'd expect the first form to set the keys, meaning that the hash will
have _only_ the indicated keys.
The second form will only add the keys, making sure they exist, and
Perl6 RFC Librarian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The ability to easily retrieve and edit your N most recent commands to the
> debugger (much like a bash_history).
and
> A better default pager. The default pager should assume a 24x80 term
> window ...
To me, these clearly indicates that the d
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> so fewer "cluttering"
> parentheses are needed to make things readable while still being correct.
Since when do parentheses make things less readable?
What is your definition of readable?
-- Johan
Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> so fewer "cluttering"
> parentheses are needed to make things readable while still being correct.
By the same reasoning, you can reduce the use of curlies by using
indentation to define block structure.
-- Johan
[Quoting Dave Storrs, on September 26 2000, 11:47, in "Re: RFC 292 (v1) Ext"]
> I'm confused...are you suggesting that the debugger should no
> longer be integrated into perl?
Absolutely not!
What I wanted to indicate is that the input and output handling of the
debugger, currently line in
Jonathan Scott Duff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'll just add my voice to the others. POD is more readable than XML.
Don't forget: more _writable_ as well.
-- Johan
David Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > We did this for the camel. Which, I remind the world, was
> > written in pod.
>
> seriously, that impresses me.
POD is not suitable for producing books. It can be used, however, to
provide the information that a (human) typesetter can turn into a
pr
Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 04 Oct 2000 18:43:43 +0200, Johan Vromans wrote:
>
> >POD is not suitable for producing books. It can be used, however, to
> >provide the information that a (human) typesetter can turn into a
> >printed book.
>
&g
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The module loaded can define the routines as either regular perl
> subs or opcode functions (the difference is in calling convention
> mainly) [...]
Difference in calling convention at the user level or just internal?
-- Johan
James Mastros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 07:36:59PM -0600, David L. Nicol wrote:
> And I always hated that about VB and Pascal -- you can assign to the magic
> variable, but can't modify it.
That was before the invention of auto-assignment operators. In the
70s, Burrou
Bart Lateur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The place where it would be put, would be irrelevant.
>
> sub readit {
> POST {
> close F;
> }
> open F, "< $f" ...
> scalar()
> }
Would the POST be executed if the open fails? Wh
Damian Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> sub {
> ...
> return $yadda_yadda;
> }
> always { close F }
Let's try not to fall into the Java trap.
If exception handling gets too wordy, programmers will try to reduce
the overhead by combining many stat
John Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> As someone else said before me, Perl should not be changed
> Just Because We Can. Aspects which have proven usefulness and
> are deeply engrained in the Perl mindset should not be tampered
> with just because some recent convert finds them un-Algol-like
Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> We're all for making easy things easy, but the complexities of
> "map {} sort {} map {} @list" has always been befuddling to newbies,
> especially when reading the code left-to-right.
I've always thought that the purpose of the Schwartzian transform was
Graham Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I have not looked at SelfTest, but I have always done this with
>
> unless (defined wantarray) {
> # Self Test
> }
>
> This works because whenever a file is use'd, require'd etc. it is
> evaluated in a scalar context. The main file is in a void contex
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Actually, my first thought a year or three ago was to replace qw()
> with «», but we just aren't there with the Unicode editors yet.
IIRW, German uses «» but French uses »« ...
> I won't tell you what I had to go through just to get those two
> character
[Quoting Michael G Schwern, on May 6 2001, 22:58, in "Re: Apo2: \Q ambigui"]
> Hmmm, maybe you can point out the "compose" key on my keyboard, I
> can't find it. ;)
Pick whatever you find convenient. I use the right control key.
From my .Xmodmap:
! Compose key
keycode 109 = Multi_key
> I kn
Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi, folks. As has probably been obvious to most of you, I've been
> really busy with my O'Reilly day job and haven't had time to attend to
> Perl 6 and Parrot business. With no prompting, Allison Randal stepped
> forward and has been taking on more
"Gregor N. Purdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> ... that I would be perfectly happy to be required to start all my
> Perl 6 programs with "#!/usr/bin/perl6" instead of
> "#!/usr/bin/perl",
Ten years ago I was perfectly happy to start all my perl programs with
/usr/bin/perl5. Today, I would be qui
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> : my $d="a";
> : print "--$d--{my $d = "b" }--$d--\n";
>
> Yes, that is correct.
I'm afraid things like this will keep many popular editors and IDEs
from implementing perl6 support...
-- Johan
Hi Juerd,
[Quoting Juerd, on February 5 2005, 16:57, in "CLI signature?"]
> signature (
> Rule $pattern,
> bool +$help:short('h'),
> Int +$verbose :short('v'),
> Str [EMAIL PROTECTED] = <->
> );
The actual parsing still has to happen 'somewhere else'
Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/emacs-iso.html
Coincidentally, last week the emacs developers decided to declare
iso-accents mode (dated 1998) obsolete. Emacs 21 (out for several
years now) has native support for language encodings.
-- Johan
Chip Salzenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> According to Michael G Schwern:
>> In the same way that we have open() not fopen, fdopen, freopen... we
>> can choose the safest and most sensible technique for determining
>> the cwd and use that.
>
> And there is more than one open. Perl does have f
Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think I understand the implementation details leading to each
> behaviour, but rather than saying which was "right", I think I'd be
> quite happy to see Perl6 copy (the ideas behind) C's rules regarding
> sequence points and undefined behaviour. I'm no
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> That's part of why I named it "btw" in the first place. The problem with
> "prop" is it's not quite obscure enough.
In the Netherlands, we have a value added tax named BTW. So it's not
unlikely for financial programs to implement a btw property or
method
Dave Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I discovered today that I had forgotten to put 'use strict' at the top of
> one of my modules...it was in the script that _used_ the module, but not
> in the module itself. Putting it in instantly caught several annoying
> bugs that I'd been trying to tr
Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> so if $key does not exist you'll get 'some default' instead of undef.
Except that a more common case is
my $foo = $hash{foo} || 'some default';
my $bar = $hash{bar} || 'some other default';
-- Johan
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