Re: my and local

2000-09-28 Thread Adam
gt; Why? Do you mean that you want $x to be created/instantiated even if the boolean clause is false (but could have been true)? In an if/then blcok the scalar would be scoped locally and so would be irrelevant if the boolean clause evaluated evaluated to false. As it is, it is kind of strange th

Re: Update on the RFC Process

2000-10-03 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 08:50:24AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: > Bradley M. Kuhn writes: > > It seems to me that the perl6-internals, perl6-qa, and perl6-licenses groups > > should be able to produce additional RFCs after this. Of course, the > > Language will be frozen, but these three group

Re: RFC 290 (v2) Better english names for -X

2000-09-27 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 03:48:33AM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote: > > "PRL" == Perl6 RFC Librarian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > PRL> -r freadable() > PRL> -w fwriteable() > PRL> -x fexecable() > PRL> -o fowned() > > PRL> -R Freadable() > PRL> -W Fwrite

Re: RFC 290 (v1) Remove -X

2000-09-27 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, Sep 27, 2000 at 08:50:28AM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote: > On 27 Sep 2000 09:16:10 +0300, Ariel Scolnicov wrote: > > >Another option is to stuff the long names into some namespace, and > >export them upon request (or maybe not export them, upon request). > > Can you say "method"? Doesn't wo

Re: Undermining the Perl Language

2000-10-01 Thread Adam Turoff
On Sun, Oct 01, 2000 at 12:14:49PM -0500, David Grove wrote: > [...] I've no idea why Sarathy was deposed, He wasn't. > but I have a > pretty big suspicion. And a pretty big, well known problem with ActiveState. > The problem is, I love Sarathy too. He's a hero, Yes, he's pretty heroic.

Re: RFC 288 (v2) First-Class CGI Support

2000-09-28 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, Sep 28, 2000 at 08:06:42AM +0200, H . Merijn Brand wrote: > On 27 Sep 2000 07:36:42 -, Perl6 RFC Librarian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This and other RFCs are available on the web at > > http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ > > > > =head1 TITLE > > > > First-Class CGI Support > > Freezing

Re: I18N of Perl 6 (was: how the FreeBSD project gets its "core members")

2000-10-15 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 12:05:14AM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: > On Sun, Oct 15, 2000 at 04:59:50PM -0400, Jorg Ziefle wrote: > > Detailed information should follow soon. Should I write an RFC to > > discuss about, though I would come a bit late? :( > > RFC 313 not good enough for you? :) I think

Re: how the FreeBSD project gets its "core members"

2000-10-16 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 10:37:27PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: > - The core team appeared to be doing too much, meddling in affairs > which didn't concern them. http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/misc.html#AEN4823 Q: Why should I care what color the bikeshed is? A: The really, really short answer

Re: Perl's parser and lexer will likely be in Perl (was Re: RFC 334 (v1) I'm {STILL} trying to understand this...)

2000-10-17 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 06:53:47PM +1100, Jeremy Howard wrote: > Leon Brocard wrote: > > Hmmm, I wonder what kind of subset would be necessary - surely the > > most useful constructs are also the most complicated... > > We could learn quite a bit by looking through the code from > Parse::RecDescen

Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-22 Thread Adam Turoff
On Sat, Oct 21, 2000 at 08:59:21AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: > Joshua N Pritikin writes: > : http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/python/2000/10/04/stackless-intro.html > > Perl 5 is already stackless in that sense, though we never implemented > continuations. The main impetus for going stackless was

Re: TIL redux (was Re: What will the Perl6 code name be?)

2000-10-23 Thread Adam Turoff
you've lost the indirection. There's a discussion that Larry started this weekend on -internals. Specifically: Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:45:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam Turoff) Cc: Larry W

Re: TIL redux (was Re: What will the Perl6 code name be?)

2000-10-23 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 08:33:23PM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote: > as for ziggy's comments on the overload of builtins issue there could be > a simple dispatch table used instead of direct calls. I don't think you understand the issue. That's taking great pains to unthread threaded bytecode once yo

Re: Acceptable speeds (was Re: TIL redux (was Re: What will the Perl6 code name be?))

2000-10-23 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 12:54:51AM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote: > another TIL win is no compile phase and not even a bytecode intepreter > startup phase. TIL code is executed directly and the script is now a > true binary. reverse compilation is still easy due to the template > nature of the generate

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-23 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 11:03:12AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: > >>>>> "AT" == Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > AT> It would also mean that if anything was overriden anywhere, no > AT> module code could be read in as bytecode, since it m

Re: Threaded Perl bytecode (was: Re: stackless python)

2000-10-24 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Oct 24, 2000 at 10:55:29AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: > I don't see it. > > I would find it extremely akward to allow > > thread 1: *foo = \&one_foo; > thread 2: *foo = \&other_foo; > [...] > > copy the &foo body to a new location. > replace the old

Re: Guidelines for internals proposals and documentation

2000-11-15 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:42:58PM +, Nicholas Clark wrote: > On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 11:35:56AM -0500, Adam Turoff wrote: > > All PDDs (like RFCs) need to start with 'Status: Developing' by default. > > Since statuses like 'Standard', 'Rejected',

Re: The new api groups

2000-11-14 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:58:25PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote: > (Though I don't think we really need more than a few weeks to get a good > set of working RFCs for this, though of course they'll get amended and > expanded as work proceeds) I'd like to see a revised set of RFC guidelines specific

Re: Guidelines for internals proposals and documentation

2000-11-15 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, Nov 15, 2000 at 04:20:58PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote: > I want perl 6's internal API to have the same sort of artistic integrity > that the language has. That's not, unfortunately, possible with everyone > having equal say. I'd like it to be otherwise, but that's just not possible > wit

Re: Guidelines for internals proposals and documentation

2000-11-15 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 05:59:40PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote: > 6) Only a WG chair, pumpking, or one of the principals (i.e. Me, Nat, or > Larry, or our replacements) can mark a PDD as developing, standard, or > superceded. This doesn't sound right. All PDDs (like RFCs) need to start with 'Sta

Re: Proposal for groups

2000-12-04 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 07:56:21AM +, Alan Burlison wrote: > How are you going to publish the design? Asking people to follow email > discussions and try to piece together what is proposed from that doesn't > seem a very optimal way to go about it. How about a design document > (format to be

Re: Proposal for groups

2000-12-05 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Dec 05, 2000 at 08:21:23AM +, Alan Burlison wrote: > How about writing the documents in XML and having a 'perl specification' > DTD? With a bit of careful thought we will be able to do all sorts of > interesting stuff - for example if we tag function definitions we can > start cross-c

Re: Supporting architectures without native C support (was Re: Meta-design)

2000-12-07 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 10:23:55PM -0500, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > However, the JVM is a powerful environment for generalized bytecode and for > allowing bytecode of different languages to communicate. So's Microsoft vaporware ".NET platform". And the second version of that bytecoded runtime wi

Re: Let's not be C-specific even if we use C (was Re: Meta-design)

2000-12-08 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 10:42:31PM -0500, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > What I seek is perl design documentation that allows someone to take the set > of PDD's and reimplement perl in another language. What will aid Perl reimplementations are the PDDs. C-Centrism in the PDDs is a moot point. > The

Re: "Art Of Unix Programming" on Perl

2001-02-11 Thread Adam Turoff
On Sun, Feb 11, 2001 at 05:03:12PM +, Simon Cozens wrote: > There's obvious FUD out there and we don't seem to be giving the impression of > getting much done, or doing anything to counter it. Let's be fair. We're not getting much done, and that's a *GOOD* thing. Language design is a very

Re: RFC archive?

2001-02-20 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 04:58:11PM -0800, Matthew Cline wrote: > What's the URL for the RFC archive? http://dev.perl.org/rfc/ Z.

Re: State of PDD 0

2001-02-20 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 05:42:01PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote: > At 02:38 PM 2/20/2001 -0800, Ask Bjoern Hansen wrote: > >How should the submission process work? As for the RFC's? > > Sounds good to me. Any additional constraints on acceptance criteria? PDD 0 describes an acceptable baseline on

Re: State of PDD 0

2001-02-20 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Feb 20, 2001 at 08:58:03PM -0500, Bryan C . Warnock wrote: > On Tuesday 20 February 2001 20:32, Adam Turoff wrote: > > For example, I doubt that we want or need three competing PDDs on > > Async I/O developing in the Standard track, but multiple PDDs on > > the same t

Re: State of PDD 0

2001-02-21 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, Feb 21, 2001 at 07:44:51PM +, David Mitchell wrote: > > Also, if we go down the 'have a competition to see who can write the best > PDD on subject X' path, can we replace the 'TBD' in unnumbered PDDs > with a short string chosen by the author? This allows us to (hopefully) > unqiuely

Not revisiting the RFC process (was: RFC 362...)

2001-02-22 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Feb 19, 2001 at 07:20:33PM -0800, Edward Peschko wrote: > > As much as I'd like to respond to some of these points, I'll refrain from it > now, I'll let my RFCs speak for themselves. Ed, The RFC process that we started this summer is formally and intentionally closed. Your post, regard

Re: Not revisiting the RFC process (was: RFC 362...)

2001-02-22 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 01:41:22PM -0800, Edward Peschko wrote: > On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 04:04:31PM -0500, Adam Turoff wrote: > > 1) The RFC was a free-for-all brainstorming process. Intentionally. > > right, and your point is that brainstorming should cease(?) Yes. Everyo

Re: Not revisiting the RFC process (was: RFC 362...)

2001-02-22 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, Feb 22, 2001 at 12:00:45PM -0800, Edward Peschko wrote: > As I stated in the original post, there is no reason *not* to keep the > process open. In an attempt to keep my previous message concise, I seem to have neglected a few key points: 1) The RFC was a free-for-all brainstorming

Schwartzian Transform

2001-03-20 Thread Adam Turoff
A very good non-programmer friend of mine just read yet another discussion on the Schwartzian Transform, and had this to say: > So, having just plowed through more than I ever wanted to about > the Schwartzian Transform: > > Is there some way to hard-code this into Perl6? Seems like it > would

Re: Schwartzian Transform

2001-03-25 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Mar 20, 2001 at 11:15:51PM -0500, John Porter wrote: > Adam Turoff wrote: > > This message is not an RFC, nor is it an intent to add a feature > > to Perl or specify a syntax for that feature[*]. > > Yay. > [...] > So you think > > @s = >

Re: Schwartzian Transform

2001-03-26 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 08:25:17AM -0800, Peter Scott wrote: > I'm kinda puzzled by the focus on Schwartzian when I thought the GRT was > demonstrated to be better. Because the transform is a specialized case of the schwartzian transform where the default sort is sufficient. Address the issu

Re: Schwartzian Transform

2001-03-26 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Mar 26, 2001 at 10:50:09AM -0500, Uri Guttman wrote: > > "SC" == Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > SC> Why can't Perl automagically do a Schwartzian when it sees a > SC> comparison with complicated operators or functions on each side of > SC> it? That is, @s = sort { f(

Re: Larry's Apocalypse 1

2001-04-06 Thread Adam Turoff
On Fri, Apr 06, 2001 at 03:31:56PM -0400, John Porter wrote: > Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote: > > So URLs are not > > literals, they have structure, and only thinking of them as filenames > > may be too simplistic. > > Yeah. But Rebol manages to deal with them. I doubt it. telephone:? fax:? lpp:?

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-10 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 05:23:01PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:20:13AM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: > > So, I wonder aloud, do we want to signify that degree of change with a more > > dramatic change in the name? Still Perl, but maybe Perl 7, Perl 10, Perl > > 2001, Per

Re: You will not have to rewrite your Perl 5 programs!

2001-05-10 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 02:58:50PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: > * Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [05/10/2001 14:18]: > > > > > >Perl 6 *will* provide a backwards compatible Perl 5 parser. The > > >details are not nailed down, but this definately will happen. > > > > Damn straight. One way or a

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-10 Thread Adam Turoff
On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 12:13:13PM -0700, David Goehrig wrote: > On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:55:36AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: > > If you talk that way, people are going to start believing it. > [snip] > > Some of us are are talking that way because we already > beleive it. You can't

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-16 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, May 15, 2001 at 03:41:15PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: > Stephen P. Potter writes: > > It seems to me that recently (the last two years or so) and > > especially with 6, perl is no longer the SAs friend. It is no > > longer a fun litle language that can be easily used to hack out > >

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-16 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 08:57:42AM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: > It doesn't look to me like the amount of Perl one needs to know to achieve > a given level of productivity is increasing in volume or complexity at > all. What it looks like to me is that there are additional features being > added

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-16 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 01:32:26PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: > In that case, how exactly has it forgotten its roots? I mean, in what > way is it not as useful as it was before? [Please forgive the following marketspeak] The issue isn't that Perl is less useful now. It's that it's shifted

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-16 Thread Adam Turoff
On Wed, May 16, 2001 at 12:49:00PM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote: > If you work in a team, then the bar is raised to the union (not the > intersection) of everyone's knowledge. But team programming is not > for small trivial tasks, and if you're solving large complex tasks > then it's unsurprisi

Re: Perl, the new generation

2001-05-18 Thread Adam Turoff
On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 08:08:40PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 12:55:55PM -0400, Stephen P. Potter wrote: > > Atoms- Unicode. If everything is Unicode, you're going to have to grok > > Unicode (at least tangentally) to be able to use perl. > > Bah. Rubbish, no more than

[ANNOUNCE] Apprenticeship Hour at YAPC::NA

2001-06-05 Thread Adam Turoff
As some of you may have noticed from the YAPC schedule[1], I'll be hosting the "Perl Apprenticeship Hour" next week. I'm STILL looking for brief descriptions of projects that are looking for some help, including: * documentation* tools * tutorials* bugfixes * modules *

Perl Doesn't Suck

2001-06-27 Thread Adam Turoff
What follows is a long, detailed summary of an attempt to install JDK 1.2.2 on FreeBSD today. FreeBSD/JDK 1.2.2 is an unsupported configuration for Sun, although patches exist to get the JDK to work under FreeBSD. Skip to the last two paragraphs if you want to see how this installation compares

Re: Perl Doesn't Suck

2001-06-29 Thread Adam Turoff
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 12:02:28PM -0400, Christopher Masto wrote: > Having gone through much the same pain a couple of weeks ago (although > I just broke down and installed the linux-jdk-1.3.1 port after Sun's > web site told me to come back later), I eagerly await a pure-Perl > replacement for F

Re: Perl Doesn't Suck

2001-06-29 Thread Adam Turoff
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 01:18:07PM -0500, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: > Adam Turoff [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: > *> > *>Nevertheless, a degenerate case for installing Perl never requires > *>transfers or temporary disk space measured in quarter gigabytes. > > Sure it ca

Re: Perl Doesn't Suck

2001-06-30 Thread Adam Turoff
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 05:20:40PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There's the trick, Solaris is Sun's Blessed Platform. As a > Linux/PowerPC user, I know how Ziggy feels. I'm almost totally > ignored by Sun and I'd imagine I'd have just as much trouble getting > it working as he did. This is

Re: http://www.ora.com/news/vhll_1299.html

2001-07-09 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 02:36:17PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Adam Turoff wrote: > > Don't laugh. It's here now. It's called XSLT. :-) > > Um, that's not what the article was talking about The proposal is to use > an XML syntax t

Re: http://www.ora.com/news/vhll_1299.html

2001-07-09 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 03:48:27PM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote: > Why can't a general-purpose programming language be augmented with XML for > internal documentation purposes? You mean like C#? :-) Z.

Re: http://www.ora.com/news/vhll_1299.html

2001-07-09 Thread Adam Turoff
On Mon, Jul 09, 2001 at 01:37:36PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote: > On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, ivan wrote: > > > http://www.ora.com/news/vhll_1299.html > > Fascinating article, but his point about XML source code struck my funny > bone. I've certainly heard the argument before - most recently in Dr. > Dobbs

Re: Per-object inheritance in core a red herring?

2001-07-10 Thread Adam Turoff
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 02:08:58AM -0500, David L. Nicol wrote: > Uh, C++ virtual methods can be overloaded on a per-object basis, not > just a per-class basis, since the object drags around its virtual jump > table with it wherever it goes, so the jump can get compiled into > "jump to the address

Re: Perl DOC BOF

2001-07-30 Thread Adam Turoff
On Sun, Jul 29, 2001 at 12:48:54AM -0400, Bryan C . Warnock wrote: > Okay, fun's over. Back to work. > > There was a Perl Documentation BOF that was scheduled for 6:30 Friday; > however, it seems none of the folks who showed up actually called it, and > none of the folks who called it actually

Re: Sometimes MakeMaker won't make.

2005-11-08 Thread Adam Kennedy
IFEST - use ExtUtils::MakeMaker; WriteMakefile( NAME=> 'Tree::Splay', VERSION_FROM=> 'lib/Tree/Splay.pm' ); Try that... Adam K Rob Bloodgood wrote: I've had this problem for awhile with a distribution I'

Re: RFC: Test::JSON

2005-11-14 Thread Adam Kennedy
install Module::Build for people that don't have it yet. It's especially grating when someone's module fails because it got stuck somewhere down in a cascade of Test:: dependencies. Same level of problem, but as the Mozilla people would say a "highly visible" problem. Ad

Re: RFC: Test::JSON

2005-11-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
convenience of not having to write that code yourself, at least if you don't go crazy with it. The question is, what level of deps is "crazy" for something that they don't actually need on their computer permanently but only need for 2 seconds to install something of yours. Adam K

Re: Private tests

2005-11-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
#x27;m sure there's be a Test::Tags module in a year or something. Adam K

Re: Private tests

2005-11-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Golden wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: What about a special environment variable, like RUN_PRIVATE_TESTS? I've been working on a concept of taggable tests on some of my larger commercial stuff, integrating with the Test::More skip() function, and some form of environment variables

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-22 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael There's existing work happening in this area you may want to get involved in. We even have a draft XML schema that does exactly what you are talking about. Go read http://ali.as/pita/ Then come hang out on irc://irc.perl.org/#pita Adam K Michael Peters wrote: Hello all, I

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-22 Thread Adam Kennedy
doing neutral format data interchange. Adam K

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-22 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-23 01:40]: And XML was designed for, and still remains VERY good at, doing neutral format data interchange. Another option if you want a lightweight format for structured data is JSON. XML is very nice for doc

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-23 Thread Adam Kennedy
PITA::Report, and the rest is irrelevant. As for the schema, it's _potentially_ a little richer than you need, as it offers the chance for a smarter analyzer later on to re-evaluate the conclusions, but it does have all of the TAP output in raw form in it as well. Should be just what you need

Re: RT Permissions

2005-12-02 Thread Adam Kennedy
anges into account in the new one. Adam K James E Keenan wrote: Andy Lester wrote: On Fri, Dec 02, 2005 at 12:10:24PM -0800, Ovid ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I've wondered about this myself. I've taken over Class::Trait but I can't take ownership of the RT requests.

Re: Flexible testing

2005-12-21 Thread Adam Kennedy
deal with retesting, but it does have to deal with issues like "how do I know I'm at the end of a test run" and other various things. There might be some interesting things that could be pulled back into the Perl ones and applied to parts of your problem. Adam K Joe McMa

Injecting functionality into Test::Harness without needing to touch it...

2005-12-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
variable to Test::Harness that more generically makes it require a specific file I'd create specifically for this, which would maybe do something to the Test::Harness internals to achieve the same thing... Thoughts from people on doing what I want? Adam K

Re: SKIP blocks and the debugger

2006-01-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
Actually, eval does this all the time as well. If you next your way though an eval, it's prone to running away to the end of a program. Adam K

Re: how to detect that we're running under CPAN::Testers?

2006-01-12 Thread Adam Kennedy
gh to start doing CPAN testing. I'll make sure to set AUTOMATED_TESTING as well. Adam K

Re: how to detect that we're running under CPAN::Testers?

2006-01-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
Anyhow, I haven't added the stats about whether a report is from automated testing as you can't tell unless the test is using YACSmoke as it adds a tag line in the report. Incidentally, Adam it would be worth you doing the same with PITA, so these sorts of stats could be gleaned in

Re: how to detect that we're running under CPAN::Testers?

2006-01-17 Thread Adam Kennedy
OK, I'll make sure there's some level of tagging about that in the reports. Adam K Barbie wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 06:06:50AM +1100, Adam Kennedy wrote: At the moment all our output is structured XML files, so at some point I need to write an XSL to translate it back down into

Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
a similar purpose. Test modules based on installation from scratch. With this focus on more-practical aspects, we can zero on the module within CPAN that are causing the most problem FAR more easily, and we know where attention needs to be placed. Adam K I have another idea. What about reversing th

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
ependecies It will auto-install dependencies just like CPAN, I believe. And, yes, it's currently Windows-only. Didn't you offer bonus points for Windows?? No it isn't. ActivePerl runs on 8 platforms, and the ppms are available for said 8 platforms. Adam K

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
rious auto-packaging systems to do their job. If a Perl module needs libfoo then it should be stated in the metadata somewhere so that the binary packaging system can resolve that generalised dependency into the appropriate action for that environment. Adam K

Re: Dependency trees

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
relatively common environment in the form of ActivePerl that means they can provide pre-compiled binary libs. Adam K

Re: Test Script Best-Practices

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
l use MakeMaker rather than Module::Build. And I'm generally using 'prove' to trouble-shoot individual tests after I've already run 'make test' and identified which test files have failures. jimk Or $a_specific_perl_path Build in the case of other situations. Adam K

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Graph::Easy installation failing here with YAML 0.50 (newer versions of YAML seem to be uninstallable at the moment due to Class::Spiffy + Spiffy + Test::Base install failures... Any suggestions? Adam K

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
m/etc) that you need to compile, so they can make judgements earlier, without every single autopackaging system being expected to go and scan the entire tarball. That said, I'd also like "I need libfoo 1.41" declarations and other similar things, so we can really make the auto-packagers work some hardcore magic. Adam K

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
's something other people can actually download, install and try out. I tend to add to "Release early, release often", "... once it works" Adam K

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
t. So needs_lib entries result in a debian module using libfoo on Debian, or on RPM, or etc... Adam K A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-28 09:00]: If a Perl module needs libfoo then it should be stated in the metadata somewhere so that the binary pa

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-28 16:20]: More to the point, it should lead people to spend more time looking into WHY their module isn't installing, and help us nail down the critical modules in the CPAN toolchain that have problems. Sounds to me

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-28 17:15]: So do have any additional specific objections, or are we up to "grumble, just fucking do it then, but I won't care" :) Actually, I like the effort, even if I share some of the concerns of the p

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
. Is there a mailing list or wiki or some such? (Subversion repository?) No infrastructure for now, until it's actually announced, but the IRC channel is logged ala #perl6, so you can visit when you wish, and catch up when you care. Adam K

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
reports abstract data collection from data analysis, so we $should be able to upgrade the analaysis and rerun them on the old reports in our database. Adam K

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: That said, I'd also like "I need libfoo 1.41" declarations and other similar things, so we can really make the auto-packagers work some hardcore magic. /me takes the Net::Pcap maintainer hat I'd really like to see

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: Could you have a look at the COOKBOOK section of the Module::Install docs on CPAN, is that File::HomeDir example sort of what you would need? Module::Install... 1) I'm allergic to this module, 2) I want to keep the backward compatib

Re: Fwd: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
d) or whatever requires a human judgment call. So we can't really do anything about it. Is it OK to use a lot of dependencies if they all work? :) Adam K

Re: Fwd: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
score only 5, you score only 5 too, at MOST. :) Adam K

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
=> '0.80'; build_requires 'Test::More' => '0.47'; install_share; auto_install; WriteAll; --- which creates the following META.yml --- no_index: directory: - inc - t generated_by: Module::Install

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
nimised end-user pain at the expense of some bandwidth and disk space. It doesn't replace EUMM or MB, it enhances them. Adam K

Re: Fwd: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Golden wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: And therein lies the problem. Working out when a dependency is important and when it's useless, or vanity, or lazyness (good or bad) or whatever requires a human judgment call. So we can't really do anything about it. Is it OK to us

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
ld be terribly grateful :) Adam K

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-30 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Cantrell wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: A testing system should only be sending FAIL reports when it believes it has a platform that is compatible with the needs of the module, but when it tries to install tests fail. So how, then, do I tell the testing system "this module only

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-30 Thread Adam Kennedy
brian d foy wrote: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And if there is a problem with Module::Install, you have to update all your dists with the new version - solve one problem, create two new ones :) But if there is a problem with EU::

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-30 Thread Adam Kennedy
chromatic wrote: On Monday 30 January 2006 20:40, Adam Kennedy wrote: Incremental releasing is a toolchain problem. Having to rerelease more than one module and making every one of my users upgrade every module that uses this tool -- not just my one or more modules -- rather than making

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-30 Thread Adam Kennedy
chromatic wrote: On Monday 30 January 2006 20:40, Adam Kennedy wrote: Incremental releasing is a toolchain problem. Having to rerelease more than one module and making every one of my users upgrade every module that uses this tool -- not just my one or more modules -- rather than making

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-31 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-31 07:50]: There isn't really any very good way (that I can see at least) to ensure that an end-user gets an update to EUMM/MB, just the module packager. So maybe that is the fundamental problem that should be addresse

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-31 Thread Adam Kennedy
a critical failure, without requiring the user to be smart? These things tend to cascade. The obvious solution results in a daisy chain of things you need to change. Adam K

Re: [Module::Build] [RFC] author tests

2006-02-01 Thread Adam Kennedy
larly weird combinations (5.004 VMS, "that" 5.6.0 from RedHat 7, 5.6.1 on Windows 95). Then make sure the code is so clean and complete you'll never need add another lines of code or tweak the docs. Then lets think about adding a new compulsory near-core dependency. Adam K T

Re: [Module::Build] [RFC] author tests

2006-02-02 Thread Adam Kennedy
. I quite like being able to run the additional tests manually if needed, and not be limited to only during the disttest process. Adam K

Re: [Module::Build] [RFC] author tests

2006-02-02 Thread Adam Kennedy
systems" bit. Also, if anyone has a good knowledge of Xen, and they let me know? Adam K

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