Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

-Original Message- From: Monty Taylor [mailto:mord...@inaugust.com] Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 1:48 AM To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list On 11/14/2013 07:54 PM, Caitlin Bestler wrote: > On 11/14/2013 5:12 AM, Thierry

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: > Can I suggest that you don't try purely mechanical filtering into > folders? Instead, for a while, try using a threaded client, and > configure it to show threads unexpanded by default. > if we are into mail client tips, Emacs GNUS has an a

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Morgan Fainberg wrote: > TL;DR Don't split the community, work to improve the tools for those > who are overwhelmed. (Email clients, enforcing use of subject tags, > etc) Thanks everyone for the insightful comments ! Like I said earlier, we can keep it the way it is, but I just wanted to make sure

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

A couple of quick points. 1) I think that splitting the list is the wrong approach. 2) Perhaps we need to look at adding a mechanism that enforces the use of tags in the subject line (send a nice "sorry, but you need to indicate the topic(s) you are mailing about" error back if it doesn't exist, ke

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

2013/11/16 Sean Dague > On 11/14/2013 02:25 PM, Mark Washenberger wrote:> It seems excessive, I > agree. But if your meeting time bounces on a > > biweekly schedule to accommodate multiple timezones, I think its quite > > necessary. > > And the fact that people forget the times are in UTC > >

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 02:25 PM, Mark Washenberger wrote: > > > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Thierry Carrez > wrote: > > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > [...] > > That will not solve all issues. We should also collectively make sure > > that *usage question

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

I am one of those horizontal people (working on docs and basically one of the people responsible at my organization for keeping a handle on what's going on) and I'm totally against a split. Of COURSE we need to maintain the integrated/incubated/proposed spectrum. Saying that we need to keep all tr

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

On 11/16/2013 02:52 AM, Monty Taylor wrote: On 11/15/2013 05:06 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: Wow, lots of different opinions! let's try to summarize: Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions * Traffic would drop by

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

ts. But those are still related to integrated or incubated, so I did not include them in the 8. For the record, I'm pasting the topics and message counts here: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (48 messages) [openstack-dev] [Neutron] New plug-ins requirements (7 messages) [open

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

fixed and easy to ignore. There are a few, like: [openstack-dev] [Trove][Savanna][Murano] Unified Agent proposal discussion at Summit that involve integrated, incubated, and stackforge projects. But those are still related to integrated or incubated, so I did not include them in the 8. For the reco

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

On 11/15/2013 05:06 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Wow, lots of different opinions! let's try to summarize: > > Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev > * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions > * Traffic would drop by about 25% > * Removes confusion as

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 07:54 PM, Caitlin Bestler wrote: > On 11/14/2013 5:12 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the >> openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and >> November well on its way to pass 2000 again.

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 02:46 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: > Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2013-11-14 05:12:55 -0800: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the >> openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and >> November well on its way

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/15/2013 04:13 AM, Sylvain Bauza wrote: > Le 14/11/2013 20:46, Clint Byrum a écrit : >> >> Now, choose which city will grow faster and produce more innovation. >> > > The problem is larger than only innovation, it is also making sure the > Stackforge projects are also a starting point for c

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Agree with Clint completely! In my opinion it would be a big mistake to separate the lists. There are tools in modern e-mail readers to filter specific content into separate views. Why should OpenStack Foundation do it for us? Alex Freedland Co-Founder and Chairman Mirantis, Inc. On Thu, Nov 1

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Coming from QA/Ops, I agree that there are horizontal teams that need to get info from the mailing list(s) across the spectrum. I also agree with Clint's and Adrian's statements about the synergies and serendipities of all the developers on one list. But I also understand the feeling of drowni

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Another thing that I remember from talking with people who work at yahoo on the hadoop project and was an insight early on for me. I remember those folks saying that about 2 hours of there day is spent on catching up on mailing list emails and reviews. This is/was a change in how they operated when

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Excerpts from Stefano Maffulli's message of 2013-11-15 09:12:05 -0800: > On 11/15/2013 02:06 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev > > * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions > > * Traffic would drop by about 25% > > I'm n

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

On 11/15/2013 02:06 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev > * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions > * Traffic would drop by about 25% I'm not so convinced about this figure, as others pointed out. > * Removes confusion as

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Adrian Otto wrote: > If OpenStack starts a culture of exclusion instead of inclusion, that would > start a dangerous trend that sets the wrong tone. It would quickly reach the > point where new projects like mine would simply not come here. We would go > somewhere else that does have a culture o

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

On Nov 15, 2013, at 2:06 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Wow, lots of different opinions! let's try to summarize: > > Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev > * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions > * Traffic would drop by about 25% > * Removes confusi

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 07:54 PM, Caitlin Bestler wrote: > I would suggest that each *established* project (core or incubator) have > its own mailing list, and that "openstack-dev" be reserved for > topics of potential interest across multiple projects (which new > projects would qualify as). +1 This see

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Definitely +1 for splitting -- it becomes overwhelmed. We'll soon need regexps just to handle the incoming emails :) Having separate mailing lists would make it easier to stay focused and concentrate on needed projects. On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote: > On 15/11/13 11:06

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

On 15/11/13 11:06 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: Wow, lots of different opinions! let's try to summarize: Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions * Traffic would drop by about 25% * Removes confusion as to which pr

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (summary so far)

Wow, lots of different opinions! let's try to summarize: Arguments in favor of splitting openstack-dev / stackforge-dev * People can easily filter out all non-openstack discussions * Traffic would drop by about 25% * Removes confusion as to which projects are actually "in openstack" Arguments in

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Sylvain Bauza wrote on 15/11/2013 11:13:37 AM: > On a technical note, as a Stackforge contributor, I'm trying to > implement best practices of Openstack coding into my own project, and > I'm facing day-to-day issues trying to understand what Oslo libs do or > how they can be used in a fashion

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Tom Fifield wrote: > On 15/11/13 02:40, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: >> >> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Julien Danjou > > wrote: >> >> > Other suggestion: we could stop posting meeting reminders to -dev (I >> > know, I'm guilty of it) and only post something if the

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Le 14/11/2013 20:46, Clint Byrum a écrit : Now, choose which city will grow faster and produce more innovation. The problem is larger than only innovation, it is also making sure the Stackforge projects are also a starting point for contributing to Openstack in a different manner. ATCs can

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 15 Nov 2013, at 02:46, Clint Byrum wrote: > Allow me an analogy if you will: > > Consider a burgeoning city. There are people who have been around a long > time. Some are politicians, some work for the city, some are just good > citizens. These people see newcomers in the commons and greet th

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 14/11/13 11:46 -0800, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2013-11-14 05:12:55 -0800: Hi everyone, I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and November well on its way to pass 2000 a

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 5:12 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: Hi everyone, I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just off-topic (and I've been regularly fight

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 15/11/13 02:40, Chmouel Boudjnah wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Julien Danjou > wrote: > > > Other suggestion: we could stop posting meeting reminders to -dev (I > > know, I'm guilty of it) and only post something if the meeting time > > cha

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 11:46 AM, Clint Byrum wrote: > Now, choose which city will grow faster and produce more innovation. This is not about welcoming newcomers. It's about teaching newcomers the tools, habits, culture of an established community that keeps growing. If questions about usage need to be ask

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 02:46 PM, Clint Byrum wrote: Allow me an analogy if you will: Consider a burgeoning city. There are people who have been around a long time. Some are politicians, some work for the city, some are just good citizens. These people see newcomers in the commons and greet them with open

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Stefano Maffulli wrote: > On 11/14/2013 09:03 AM, David Ripton wrote: > > I don't think it's worth the bother. openstack-dev would still receive > > most of the traffic. Once you add back the traffic from people > > cross-posting, posting to the wrong list, yell

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2013-11-14 05:12:55 -0800: > Hi everyone, > > I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the > openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and > November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just > off-to

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > [...] > > That will not solve all issues. We should also collectively make sure > > that *usage questions are re-routed* to the openstack general > > mailing-list, where they belong. Too many people still answer off

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 09:03 AM, David Ripton wrote: > I don't think it's worth the bother. openstack-dev would still receive > most of the traffic. Once you add back the traffic from people > cross-posting, posting to the wrong list, yelling at people > cross-posting or posting to the wrong list, etc. I'

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 2013-11-14 14:12:55 +0100 (+0100), Thierry Carrez wrote: [...] > I'd like to propose a split between two lists: > > *openstack-dev*: Discussions on future development for OpenStack > official projects > > *stackforge-dev*: Discussions on development for stackforge-hosted projects [...] Consid

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 08:21 AM, Julien Danjou wrote: On Thu, Nov 14 2013, Thierry Carrez wrote: Thoughts ? I agree on the need to split, the traffic is getting huge. As I'd have to subscribe to both openstack-dev and stackforge-dev, that would not help me personally, but I think it can be an easy an

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Nov 14, 2013 5:16 AM, "Thierry Carrez" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the > openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and > November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just > off-topic (and I've been

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Good idea. -romain ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Julien Danjou wrote: > > Other suggestion: we could stop posting meeting reminders to -dev (I > > know, I'm guilty of it) and only post something if the meeting time > > changes, or if the weekly meeting is canceled for whatever reason. > > Good suggestion. > Or

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the > openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and > November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just > off-topic (and I've

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

+1, agreed. Personally, I’ll subscribe to both lists but I think it really could help to prioritize emails. Sincerely yours, Sergey Lukjanov Savanna Technical Lead Mirantis Inc. On Nov 14, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I think that we have recently reached critic

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the > openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and > November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just > off-topic (and I've

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

++ On 11/14/2013 08:37 AM, m...@openstack.org wrote: This would also have the added benefit of reducing the times people conflate related open source projects from stackforge with OpenStack itself. Having related oss discussions on a list called "OpenStack-Dev" may certainly have given the wro

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 14/11/13 14:12 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: Hi everyone, I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just off-topic (and I've been regularly fig

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 11/14/2013 08:12 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the > openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and > November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just > off-topic (and I've been regu

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Julien Danjou wrote: > On Thu, Nov 14 2013, Thierry Carrez wrote: > >> Thoughts ? > > I agree on the need to split, the traffic is getting huge. > > As I'd have to subscribe to both openstack-dev and stackforge-dev, that > would not help me personally, but I think it can be an easy and first > s

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

This would also have the added benefit of reducing the times people conflate related open source projects from stackforge with OpenStack itself. Having related oss discussions on a list called "OpenStack-Dev" may certainly have given the wrong impression to the casual observer. On Nov 14, 201

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On 14/11/13 13:23, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: Is there somewhere on the website which keeps a record of all regular scheduled meetings people can discover / refer to easily ? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings Cheers, -- Stephen Gran Senior Systems Integrator - theguardian.com Please con

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14 2013, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > Is there somewhere on the website which keeps a record of all regular > scheduled meetings people can discover / refer to easily ? It's all on the wiki: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings -- Julien Danjou // Free Software hacker / indepe

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings 2013/11/14 Daniel P. Berrange > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 02:19:24PM +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: > > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > > [...] > > > That will not solve all issues. We should also collectively make sure > > > that *usage questions are re-routed* t

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 02:19:24PM +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Thierry Carrez wrote: > > [...] > > That will not solve all issues. We should also collectively make sure > > that *usage questions are re-routed* to the openstack general > > mailing-list, where they belong. Too many people still an

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Yeah, that's big problem... Especially when you are trying to keep track on lots of topics... I suppose this solution will do letters' prioritisation at least easier for developers and everybody who is subscribed on openstack-dev. Nice idea. On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:12 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote:

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14 2013, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Thoughts ? I agree on the need to split, the traffic is getting huge. As I'd have to subscribe to both openstack-dev and stackforge-dev, that would not help me personally, but I think it can be an easy and first step. -- Julien Danjou -- Free Softwa

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

On Thu, Nov 14 2013, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Other suggestion: we could stop posting meeting reminders to -dev (I > know, I'm guilty of it) and only post something if the meeting time > changes, or if the weekly meeting is canceled for whatever reason. Good suggestion. -- Julien Danjou -- Free

Re: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Thierry Carrez wrote: > [...] > That will not solve all issues. We should also collectively make sure > that *usage questions are re-routed* to the openstack general > mailing-list, where they belong. Too many people still answer off-topic > questions here on openstack-dev, which encourages people

[openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list

Hi everyone, I think that we have recently reached critical mass for the openstack-dev mailing-list, with 2267 messages posted in October, and November well on its way to pass 2000 again. Some of those are just off-topic (and I've been regularly fighting against them) but most of them are just abo