On 11/15/2013 12:08 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote: > Adrian Otto wrote: >> If OpenStack starts a culture of exclusion instead of inclusion, that would >> start a dangerous trend that sets the wrong tone. It would quickly reach the >> point where new projects like mine would simply not come here. We would go >> somewhere else that does have a culture of inclusion. We would not employ >> the values of open design and open collaboration, and we would be back to >> the "throw stuff over the wall" approach to open source. That would be a >> tragedy. Don't destroy the things about OpenStack's community that make it >> awesome. > > It's definitely a trade-off between usability and community inclusion... > Trust me, I understand the value of cross-pollination, which is why I > wouldn't support a pure per-project split (as suggested elsewhere in > this thread). I'm just trying to find the right balance. > >>> Because they ARE two different groups. >> >> That thinking is backwards. From a community perspective we are not two >> different groups. Making us into two groups is a huge mistake. > > I was talking about groups of projects. We have an incubation process to > decide when new projects are allowed to start tapping into OpenStack > common resources, like use an openstack/* repo, get into the integrated > gate, or tap into QA or release management dudes for guidance. I see > openstack-dev ML space as one of those common resources. Letting anyone > use it to talk about their new stackforge project has some cost, even if > it's an externality to you. > > This is not about excluding anyone, it's about prioritizing our > resources. If we followed your line of thought, we should just abandon > the project incubation process because it's a way to prevent promising > projects from accessing resources they need in order to develop their > full potential. > > Anyway, I don't expect to convince you, since you're clearly the one > benefiting the most from the current setup. I'm on the other end of the > spectrum, trying my best to keep my sanity with the ever-growing number > of things I need to keep an eye on :) And maybe the benefits of > unlimited cross-pollination are worth more than the drawback of forcing > everyone to process enormous email piles every day. (Filtering is an > option I have with well-behaved projects like Solum, I just fear it > would not work so well for less "filterable" threads.)
Can I suggest that you don't try purely mechanical filtering into folders? Instead, for a while, try using a threaded client, and configure it to show threads unexpanded by default. Then, when you're going to read openstack-dev, you can scan the subject lines with your eyes, which are AMAZINGLY good at pattern recognition and contextualization. It's pretty easy to skip over the non-OpenStack threads. BTW - in the 55 most recently active threads in openstack-dev, 8 of them are for topics that are only of interest to 'official' OpenStack projects. All 8 of them are properly prefixed and easy to ignore. There are a few, like: [openstack-dev] [Trove][Savanna][Murano] Unified Agent proposal discussion at Summit that involve integrated, incubated, and stackforge projects. But those are still related to integrated or incubated, so I did not include them in the 8. For the record, I'm pasting the topics and message counts here: [openstack-dev] Split of the openstack-dev list (48 messages) [openstack-dev] [Neutron] New plug-ins requirements (7 messages) [openstack-dev] Is Havana keystone rpm actually splitting identity and assignment? (4 messages) [openstack-dev] Using AD for keystone authentication only (9 messages) [openstack-dev] Openstack + OpenContrail (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [Glance] Summit Session Summaries (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [nova][api] Is this a potential issue (11 messages) [openstack-dev] sqlalchemy-migrate 0.8.1 (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [qa] Proposals for Tempest core (5 messages) [openstack-dev] [Heat] Continue discussing multi-region orchestration (13 messages) [openstack-dev] Congress: an open policy framework (10 messages) [openstack-dev] [nova][object] One question to the resource tracker session (11 messages) [openstack-dev] [Solum] SFO Design Workshop [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Neutron Tempest code sprint - 2nd week of January, Montreal, QC, Canada (27 messages) [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Troubleshooting OVS RPC API unit test error (3 messages) [openstack-dev] sqlalchemy-migrate needs a new release (15 messages) [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Find the compute host on which a VM runs (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [Neutron] Plugin and Driver Inclusion Requirements (4 messages) [openstack-dev] Shall backward compatibility env. vars be removed from python-clients? (6 messages) [openstack-dev] [horizon] User registrations (9 messages) [openstack-dev] [Heat] rough draft of Heat autoscaling API (26 messages) [openstack-dev] [Solum] Command Line Interface for Solum (20 messages) [openstack-dev] [nova] future fate of nova-network? (3 messages) [openstack-dev] [Nova] New API requirements, review of GCE (6 messages) [openstack-dev] how can I know a new instance is created from the code ? (3 messages) [openstack-dev] [Nova] Icehouse Blueprints (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [Solum/Heat] Is Solum really necessary? (14 messages) [openstack-dev] Nova XML serialization bug 1223358 moving discussion here to get more people involved (4 messages) [openstack-dev] [RFC] Straw man to start the incubation / graduation requirements discussion (11 messages) [openstack-dev] [Savanna] DiskBuilder / savanna-image-elements (4 messages) [openstack-dev] [Keystone] Blob in keystone v3 certificate API (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [oslo] team meeting Friday 15 November @ 14:00 UTC (2 messages) [openstack-dev] [Trove][Savanna][Murano] Unified Agent proposal discussion at Summit (6 messages) [openstack-dev] [oslo] tracking graduation status for incubated code [openstack-dev] [OpenStack-dev][Neutron][Tempest]Can Tempest embrace some complicated network scenario tests (3 messages) [openstack-dev] [nova][cinder][oslo][scheduler] How to leverage oslo schduler/filters for nova and cinder (6 messages) [openstack-dev] [Nova] Hypervisor CI requirement and deprecation plan [openstack-dev] [Ceilometer] compute agent cannot start (7 messages) [openstack-dev] [Horizon] Use icon set instead of instance Action (4 messages) [openstack-dev] [OpenStack][Horizon] poweroff/shutdown action in horizon (3 messages) [openstack-dev] [Murano] Implementing Elastic Applications (3 messages) Now - tell me in the above list where the mass of StackForge related email overwhelming madness is coming from. I count 4 topics and 26 messages out of a total of 44 topics and 328 messages. So - before we take the extreme move of segregation, can we just try threaded mail readers for a while and see if it helps? Monty _______________________________________________ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
