Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Jim Grisanzio
Dennis Clarke wrote: >> All right. >> >> I don't even know where to begin. > > Welcome to the OpenSolaris Community where you can do great work, endless > hours year after year and get endless heartache for it. > > Ian, to be frank, you're new here. This sort of thing has gone on for > years and

Re: [osol-discuss] Indiana / SXCE / Sun Solaris 10 / Nevada - Gawd I'm CONFUSED

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Ceri Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 07:56:14PM -0700, Ch?? Kristo wrote: > > > > > > SXCE (and SXDE) are going to be Sun Solaris 11 > > > eventually, or at least > > > their aim is to provide an unstable testing bed > > > for Solaris 11 > > >Note: Th

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Let's focus. (2nd Draft)

2007-11-02 Thread Octave Orgeron
Hi Everyone, I've been trying to read through my email today and trying to sift through the apparent mess we're now in. Project Indiana has its place in the community and we will all be able to benefit from it as time passes. However, I do agree that the way in which it has been labeled and pre

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Ceri Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 04:04:08PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > > On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >>> Then you shouldn't say you speak with "one voice" because that implies > > > >>> unanimity whic

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Garrett D'Amore
Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 15:57 -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > >> The community hasn't been given the right to give the name to anybody, >> or for that matter, take it from anybody. The community explicitly has >> no rights over the name whatsoever. >> > > so, either one

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Let's focus. (2nd Draft)

2007-11-02 Thread Rich Teer
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 01:00:46PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > > > >> I'll counter with this amendment that I believe makes the requirement > >> clear by citing the specific terms used on the web site: > >> > >> Until that time, we ask that S

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Ceri Davies
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 04:48:42PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > On 02/11/2007, Ceri Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Shawn, "abstain" only has one meaning. It's perfectly consistent and in > > layman's terms as it stands. > > Abstain has only one meaning but was not used in the context giv

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Nov 2, 2007, at 14:41, Garrett D'Amore wrote: > Shawn Walker wrote: >> On 02/11/2007, Bill Sommerfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> The community may (or may not) choose to *GIVE* the name to the >>> project >>> to use. >>> >> >> The community hasn't been given the right to give the name

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Ceri Davies
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 04:04:08PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >>> Then you shouldn't say you speak with "one voice" because that implies > > >>> unanimity which is not the case here. You should say "the majority of > > >>> th

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Garrett D'Amore
Shawn Walker wrote: > On 02/11/2007, Bill Sommerfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The community may (or may not) choose to *GIVE* the name to the project >> to use. >> > > The community hasn't been given the right to give the name to anybody, > or for that matter, take it from anybody. T

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread elw
>>> Then you shouldn't say you speak with "one voice" because that implies >>> unanimity which is not the case here. You should say "the majority of >>> the OGB feels X way." >> >> That is not how abstentions are generally counted. > > Well, sorry, but for those not used the extreme level of bu

Re: [osol-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread elw
> those same people for our trouble, and in return thinks it reasonable to > have _some_ say in how the community functions? Or is that a sign of > evil intentions? Do we have to completely abdicate to "be community"? > Isn't that taxation without representation? > > Or is all that insignifican

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Rushmore
Ian Murdock wrote: > I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Not in the least bit. > > -ian > I am with Ian here, I just don't get it either. While I really can't say I really agree 100 % with what was done I just don't get the responses and how this whole thing has blown up into yet another fla

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 15:57 -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > The community hasn't been given the right to give the name to anybody, > or for that matter, take it from anybody. The community explicitly has > no rights over the name whatsoever. so, either one of two things has happened: 1) the projec

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Bill Sommerfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The community may (or may not) choose to *GIVE* the name to the project > to use. The community hasn't been given the right to give the name to anybody, or for that matter, take it from anybody. The community explicitly has no rights over

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 15:41 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > That is not the argument, and you know it. The argument is that no single > > project is allowed to take the OpenSolaris name and claim that it owns it. > > > > If no single project is allowed to take the

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Garrett D'Amore
Sara Dornsife wrote: > Bill, > > >> It's all about the name. Back away from "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" >> and this nightmare will end. >> >> > > And then what? I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm really asking > what you see as next steps. > Ask for community buy-in on th

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Garrett D'Amore
Very simply Ian, I think a lot of people agree that the *end* result (a binary downloadable called OpenSolaris) is probably a good thing. What the community is objecting to is *how* we got there. Sun (or your team) unilaterally decided to apply the brand, without really consulting the communit

Re: [osol-discuss] Name Change?

2007-11-02 Thread W. Wayne Liauh
> Since Murdock and the rest of Sun's marketing > department decided to > stab the community in the back by defining by > executive fiat what > exactly "OpenSolaris" meant, perhaps it's time to > rename what the old > bits used to be. > > Anyone on OGB or other committees, what's the > likel

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Aubrey Li
On Nov 3, 2007 11:00 AM, Sara Dornsife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It doesn't actually exist... let's imagine it in a cape with wings flying > over a frozen hell > :) :D > > > > Aubrey Li wrote: > On Nov 3, 2007 1:22 AM, Sara Dornsife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > We talked about a

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Sara Dornsife
It doesn't actually exist... let's imagine it in a cape with wings flying over a frozen hell :) Aubrey Li wrote: On Nov 3, 2007 1:22 AM, Sara Dornsife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We talked about a flying pig as a potential community mascot at the Summit. No graphics have been created.

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Aubrey Li
On Nov 3, 2007 1:22 AM, Sara Dornsife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > We talked about a flying pig as a potential community mascot at the Summit. > No graphics have been created. > Sara > > > Just wonder, the pig is flying over a background, which is used popularly on windows XP. Does this picture

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Russell Delo
Reply To: I just don't get it. From: rust (Russ Delo) Ian, I am a person that stumbled into OpenSolaris about 4 months ago, at that time I could not get any!!! of the open versions to load and connect to the internet. Then I tried indiana and although not fully working, all the parts that a

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread ken mays
You know... Can we actually use Jack as the mascot for now (till we find something better)?!? Even use a video or two of Jack in action?!? :oD Ref: http://www.antics.com/renegade.html ~Ken __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread MC
> I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Not in the least > bit. > > -ian That is unexpected for me, but it explains why things have happened the way they've happened. Simply put, there has been a public perception for years that "OpenSolaris" is not just a mechanical arm of Sun Microsystems.

Re: [osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminaltype in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>The label=console6 change didn't have any more effect than the >terminal_type=xterm change. Use the script I posted : Usage is: conspeed [-t termtype] [-R root] [speed] it makes th whole world consistent. Casper ___ opensolaris-discuss m

Re: [osol-discuss] Self-hosting ON

2007-11-02 Thread Ceri Davies
On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 05:59:30PM +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote: > Ceri Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I did already send this list many times, let me send it again. This is > > > missing: > > > > Not to me :) > > Then you appeared recently on this mailing list. I've been here a whil

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Ian Collins
Ian Murdock wrote: > > > > Or is all that insignificant, irrelevant? We haven't given everything, > > so therefore we've given nothing? > > > > I'm sorry, but I just don't get it. Not in the least bit. > > > > > I must admit I haven't been able to follow all the threads (several hundred dupl

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Tim Scanlon
I'll be both blunt and brief about this. I posted more in another thread on page 2 & my opinion hasn't changed much yet. Not that it won't, but probably it'll get revised some based on needs analysis. I am desperate for the type of thing Indiana is doing. Not for myself, but for the people I in

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Ceri Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 04:48:42PM -0500, Shawn Walker wrote: > > On 02/11/2007, Ceri Davies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Shawn, "abstain" only has one meaning. It's perfectly consistent and in > > > layman's terms as it stands. > > >

Re: [osol-discuss] Did list policy just change?

2007-11-02 Thread Mike Kupfer
> "Bill" == Bill Sommerfeld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Bill> I just started getting bounces saying: Your mail to Bill> 'opensolaris-discuss' with the subject Bill> Re: [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [osol-discuss] I'm Bill> sorry, but I just don't get it Bill> Is being held un

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Marty Duey
On 11/2/2007 3:12 PM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > Jason J. W. Williams wrote: > >>If the goal of the distro is draw folks like my company into the fold, >>there has to be distro unequivocally associated with the OpenSolaris >>name. Because frankly, if you're trying to grab folks from another OS >>y

Re: [osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminaltype in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread McDonald, Kyle
The label=console6 change didn't have any more effect than the terminal_type=xterm change. Back to the drawing board. -Kyle -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McDonald, Kyle Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:00 PM To: Bill Sommerfeld Cc:

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Alan Coopersmith
Jason J. W. Williams wrote: > If the goal of the distro is draw folks like my company into the fold, > there has to be distro unequivocally associated with the OpenSolaris > name. Because frankly, if you're trying to grab folks from another OS > you've got a short window of opportunity to get them

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Sara Dornsife
Joerg Schilling wrote: Mark Phalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 12:22 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: We talked about a flying pig as a potential community mascot at the Summit. No graphics have been created. Sara Please, not a flying pig! Jack is bett

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Jason J. W. Williams
Hey Guys, As someone who's come to OpenSolaris from outside the community, I think the decision is right on. And Ian's comment that he doesn't get it. It seems to me that community is important, but OpenSolaris has a larger identity issue vis-a-vis the non-community. If the goal of the distro is

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>> Then you shouldn't say you speak with "one voice" because that implies > >>> unanimity which is not the case here. You should say "the majority of > >>> the OGB feels X way." > >> > >> That is not how abstentions are generally co

[osol-discuss] Did list policy just change?

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
I just started getting bounces saying: Your mail to 'opensolaris-discuss' with the subject Re: [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Too many

Re: [osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminaltype in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread McDonald, Kyle
So, Given that there is no 'consoleX:' line that specs a 38400 speed, I went and added one: console6:38400 hupcl opost onlcr:38400::console And then set ttymon/label=console6 in svccfg. Is that the recommended way to setup a speed that doesn't already exist? Or should I have say modified conso

Re: [osol-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, John Plocher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Indiana developer preview naming decision seems to instead > have done > > Get an idea, discuss it with executives at Sun, announce > the results to the stakeholders as an already-decided fact > and start acting unilaterall

Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread John Plocher
Sara Dornsife wrote: >> It's all about the name. Back away from "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" >> and this nightmare will end. >> > > And then what? I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm really asking > what you see as next steps. Seriously: Mend your bridges with the community you diss

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Even those in favor of Indiana==OpenSolaris feel there should be a vote. Let's focus.

2007-11-02 Thread Brandorr
On 11/2/07, Glynn Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Brandorr wrote: > > The team responsible (Ian and Sara) for this divisive action have > > actually been ridiculing those who don't subscribe to their world > > view. This cavalier attitude is doing nothing put inflaming this > > issue. > > >

Re: [osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminaltype in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread McDonald, Kyle
Ahh. I stumbled across ttydefs after I sent that (by greping for 9600 in /etc) but I wasn't sure what to change. I'll try that. Anyone have any ideas why my terminal type change hasn't had any effect? -Kyle -Original Message- From: Bill Sommerfeld [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fr

Re: [osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminal type in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 16:29 -0400, McDonald, Kyle wrote: > This allows the Kernel banner and everything up to: > > Reading ZFS config: done. > > To come out properly, but after that the serialline speed drops back to > 9600. The baud rate at that point is set by console login through ttydefs.

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Sara Dornsife
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Consensus? Among whom? It should be obvious that there are actually many people in this community that do believe there should be one *reference* distribution called OpenSolaris. That is not the argument, and you know it. The argument is that no single project is

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Even those in favor of Indiana==OpenSolaris feel there should be a vote. Let's focus.

2007-11-02 Thread Glynn Foster
Brandorr wrote: > The team responsible (Ian and Sara) for this divisive action have > actually been ridiculing those who don't subscribe to their world > view. This cavalier attitude is doing nothing put inflaming this > issue. > > At this point, I feel the Project Indiana leadership group is ou

Re: [osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminal type in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>What other setting am I missing? It's really a bug in Solaris Attach please find my script "conspeed" which allows you to sync all the speeds of the devices for SPARC and x86. I would try and explain exactly what you need to change but I dont remember exactly what the script does. Casper #!/

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Then you shouldn't say you speak with "one voice" because that implies > >unanimity which is not the case here. You should say "the majority of > >the OGB feels X way." > > That is not how abstentions are generally counted. Well, s

[osol-discuss] Setting Serial console baud rate, and terminal type in NV?

2007-11-02 Thread McDonald, Kyle
Hi, I've installed build 74 on an IBM xSeries server. The BIOS and terminal server are already setup for a serial line speed of 38400. The BIOS output comes up as 38400. So I've edited /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc so that it contains: setprop ttya-mode '38400,8,n,1,-' setprop console 'ttya'

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] [advocacy-discuss] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread Marty Duey
Can someone please fix the discussion list mail server or am I the only one getting a second helping of the same messages? It's tough enough to go through them all (including the cross-postings) the first time, but having to do it again is killer. Thanks, Marty On 11/2/2007 10:07 AM, Joerg S

Re: [osol-discuss] Self-hosting ON

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> >> >> >Interesting! Why then does Sun remove them from the code? >> >> >> Remove how? It's not in the public sfw gate? > >You seem to have strange ideas from a "complete source" that >allows a compilation. Please Joerg, don't speak in riddles. I'm assuming that l

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>Then you shouldn't say you speak with "one voice" because that implies >unanimity which is not the case here. You should say "the majority of >the OGB feels X way." That is not how abstentions are generally counted. Casper ___ opensolaris-discuss m

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Glynn Foster
Dennis Clarke wrote: > > The flying pig would not a good idea with many cultures in the word. Not only that, but we've now proved the pig could fly - it certainly seems less interesting now :) Glynn ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread Joerg Schilling
Jonathan Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Nov 2, 2007, at 12:33, Shawn Walker wrote: > > >> err actually .. > >> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/samqfs/ > >> > >> just follow the star source link, but then again some might also have > >> to admit that samqfs is a valuable filesystem in

Re: [osol-discuss] Self-hosting ON

2007-11-02 Thread Joerg Schilling
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >Interesting! Why then does Sun remove them from the code? > > > Remove how? It's not in the public sfw gate? You seem to have strange ideas from a "complete source" that allows a compilation. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Shawn Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >I think he does understand; look where Debian is now, and how Ubuntu > > >has risen above them. Do we want to end up like Debian? So caught-up > > >in voting and democra

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >Consensus? Among whom? It should be obvious that there are actually > >many people in this community that do believe there should be one > >*reference* distribution called OpenSolaris. > > That is not the argument, and you know it. T

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Nov 2, 2007, at 12:33, Shawn Walker wrote: >> err actually .. >> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/samqfs/ >> >> just follow the star source link, but then again some might also have >> to admit that samqfs is a valuable filesystem in addition to zfs > > star is Schily's Tar Archiver. Sorry, i

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Joerg Schilling
Mark Phalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 12:22 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: > > We talked about a flying pig as a potential community mascot at the > > Summit. No graphics have been created. > > Sara > > > > Please, not a flying pig! Jack is better than a flying pig http:

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >I think he does understand; look where Debian is now, and how Ubuntu > >has risen above them. Do we want to end up like Debian? So caught-up > >in voting and democracy that we are paralysed and unable to make > >important choices? >

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>Consensus? Among whom? It should be obvious that there are actually >many people in this community that do believe there should be one >*reference* distribution called OpenSolaris. That is not the argument, and you know it. The argument is that no single project is allowed to take the OpenSolar

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>I think he does understand; look where Debian is now, and how Ubuntu >has risen above them. Do we want to end up like Debian? So caught-up >in voting and democracy that we are paralysed and unable to make >important choices? So you suggest a dictatorship on the basis that the trains run on ti

Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] [advocacy-discuss] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread John Plocher
[Followups to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joerg Schilling wrote: > Compatiblitiy is less trivial than you might belive but without conformance > tests, we cannot claim anything about compatibility > ... > > A distro alone cannot be a refernce. It must not even be changed for > the compatibility tests.

Re: [osol-discuss] Solaris Packages

2007-11-02 Thread Joerg Schilling
"Shawn Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 02/11/2007, Joerg Schilling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "Shawn Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The autoconf documentation that tells you "if you like to use XXX copy > > > > these > > > > 10 lines into your source" is of course bad.

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Dennis Clarke
> I think Japan might want to have a word with you. > >> The flying pig would not a good idea with many cultures in the word. >> So that is a no go. >> >> I like a blazing sun. A blazing rising sun. * sigh * OKay .. suggestions ? Dennis ___

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Jonathan Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Nov 1, 2007, at 07:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > Could you explain this? > > Your claim does not look to be correct. > >>> > >>> > >>> So: who is doing the work on

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Nov 1, 2007, at 07:26, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> >>> Could you explain this? Your claim does not look to be correct. >>> >>> >>> So: who is doing the work on star? Where is the project page? >>> Is there an OpenSolaris ready tarbal people can

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Mario Goebbels
I think Japan might want to have a word with you. > The flying pig would not a good idea with many cultures in the word. > So that is a no go. > > I like a blazing sun. A blazing rising sun. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Bryan Cantrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ian, > > > All right. > > > > I don't even know where to begin. > > > > Does it matter at all that the feedback outside this community to > > the idea that we're producing a binary distribution called > > OpenSolaris has almost universall

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Shawn Walker
On 02/11/2007, Gueven Bay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sorry, but I just didn't get it ... > > that the founder, > that the creator, > that the maker > > of THE (cannot make "THE" big enough) Free Software distribution mankind has > today > > cannot understand the difference between the "commu

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Nov 2, 2007, at 10:42, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 13:16 -0400, Ian Murdock wrote: >> I don't even know where to begin. > > You should start with the choice of name. > > Names are very important. I don't agree Bill .. this focus on names and renaming and rebranding that s

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Dennis Clarke
The flying pig would not a good idea with many cultures in the word. So that is a no go. I like a blazing sun. A blazing rising sun. - Dennis Clarke ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org

Re: [osol-discuss] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name

2007-11-02 Thread John Plocher
Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > On Thu, 2007-11-01 at 21:12 -0700, John Plocher wrote: >> In addition, the OpenSolaris >> community itself produces a distro that is compatible. > > I think "a distro" is unnecessarily constraining. +1 I used the term in a "at this current time" context; as I've said be

Re: [osol-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Mario Goebbels
> I was wondering if the Indiana pre-release has any sort of graphical logo or > if simply "Indiana Pre-Release" was correct? Or maybe "Indiana Beta Rev > 0.1" or similar. > > Anything at all or shall I make something up ? Now that I had a shower and something to eat, here's an actual idea: Com

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Rich Green
Thank you both for your comments. Specifically for the eyes and ears of all of the folks on the OpenSolaris software team, I can't thank you enough for the outstanding work you've done to date on this program. The creativity, speed and focus you've all demonstrated is visible to all - and is wor

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread James Carlson
Tim Foster writes: > We all thought it was okay to burn fossil fuels a few years ago; there > was a community consensus even that it was okay - this appears to be a > similar issue (though of less global importance I admit). That's weak. My reduction (or increase or lack of change altogether) in

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Does Project Indiana have a logo ?

2007-11-02 Thread Rich Green
+1 Mark Phalan wrote: On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 12:22 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: We talked about a flying pig as a potential community mascot at the Summit. No graphics have been created. Sara Please, not a flying pig! -Mark _

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Alan Coopersmith
Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 13:06 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: > >>> As members >>> of our community's elected body have made exhaustively clear, there is >>> a consensus that a single OpenSolaris-derived distribution -- even one >>> emanating from Sun -- should not have exclusiv

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Alan Burlison
Ian Murdock wrote: > Does it matter at all that the feedback outside this community to > the idea that we're producing a binary distribution called > OpenSolaris has almost universally been: "Duh. What took so long?" > > Does it matter that the initial feedback on the Developer Preview > has been

Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bryan Cantrill
> >>And, yes, does it matter that Sun holds a large stake in this > >>community, PAYS the vast majority of people here for the privilege of > >>being able to spend their days doing what they love, gets flamed > >>repeatedly by many of those same people for our trouble, and in return > >>thinks it

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Alan Coopersmith
Ian Murdock wrote: > All right. > > I don't even know where to begin. I don't think anyone disputes that there is a lot of good being overshadowed by a few small decisions that have large impact. I just don't get why it would have been so bad for the binaries shipped this week to be labeled as "

Re: [osol-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 13:06 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: > > As members > > of our community's elected body have made exhaustively clear, there is > > a consensus that a single OpenSolaris-derived distribution -- even one > > emanating from Sun -- should not have exclusive use of the name > > "Open

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Dennis Clarke
> > On Nov 2, 2007, at 10:16, Ian Murdock wrote: > >> All right. >> >> I don't even know where to begin. > > hear hear! thanks for your candid insight Ian! .. i've only been at > sun for about 10 years now, but from what i've seen it's always been > a chaotic mess of consolidations replete with l

Re: [osol-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>+1 This says it all for me. I'm also getting pretty sick of the rather >negative atmosphere around the mailing lists at the moment. > >We just shipped a major milestone, and people are doing nothing but >bitching about it. I'm glad the responsible project team are a pretty >thick skinned bunch,

Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Tim Foster
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 10:42 -0700, Bryan Cantrill wrote: > nomenclature. That's it; it's not more complicated than that. As members > of our community's elected body have made exhaustively clear, there is > a consensus that a single OpenSolaris-derived distribution -- even one > emanating from Su

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bob Netherton
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 13:42 -0400, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: > Names are very important. Absolutely. > Pick a new one that properly communicates this release's status as an > experimental prototype produced by a subset of the community without > prior broad review, and all will be well. > > To me,

Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Chris Mahan
On 11/2/07, Sara Dornsife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > And then what? I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm really asking > what you see as next steps. > Sara Compromise? Rename "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" to "an OpenSolaris Developer Preview" (Notice the "an" part? Good) Have Ian m

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread James Carlson
Sara Dornsife writes: > Bill, > > > It's all about the name. Back away from "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" > > and this nightmare will end. > > > > And then what? I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm really asking > what you see as next steps. When you feel you're ready to do so, ask f

Re: [osol-discuss] Self-hosting ON

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>Interesting! Why then does Sun remove them from the code? Remove how? It's not in the public sfw gate? Casper ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Eric Boutilier
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007, Mario Goebbels wrote: > > ... > I don't think that the name "OpenSolaris" is making the big difference > here > Agreed. I'd even go so far as to say uptake of Nevada might be on the verge of /skyrocketing/ with this release. I believe there's massive, long-building, pent up

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 12:55 -0500, Sara Dornsife wrote: > > It's all about the name. Back away from "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" > > and this nightmare will end. > > And then what? I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm really asking > what you see as next steps. I think those steps includ

Re: [osol-discuss] [trademark-policy-dev] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Sara Dornsife
Bryan Cantrill wrote: Ian, All right. I don't even know where to begin. Does it matter at all that the feedback outside this community to the idea that we're producing a binary distribution called OpenSolaris has almost universally been: "Duh. What took so long?" Does it matter that the i

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Let's focus. (2nd Draft)

2007-11-02 Thread Casper . Dik
>On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 01:00:46PM -0400, James Carlson wrote: > >> I'll counter with this amendment that I believe makes the requirement >> clear by citing the specific terms used on the web site: >> >> Until that time, we ask that Sun require that references to Indiana >> discontinue using

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Sara Dornsife
Bill, > It's all about the name. Back away from "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" > and this nightmare will end. > And then what? I hope that doesn't sound facetious, I'm really asking what you see as next steps. Sara > - Bill > > > > > _

Re: [osol-discuss] [advocacy-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Ian, I have been (quietly) so far following this long discussion and may as well put in my 2 cents (several other people have contributed a lot more). I would rather download and install something called "Sun OpenSolaris" than "OpenSolaris". I trust Sun to have gone through all the testing nee

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bryan Cantrill
Ian, > All right. > > I don't even know where to begin. > > Does it matter at all that the feedback outside this community to > the idea that we're producing a binary distribution called > OpenSolaris has almost universally been: "Duh. What took so long?" > > Does it matter that the initial fe

Re: [osol-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Gueven Bay
I'm sorry, but I just didn't get it ... that the founder, that the creator, that the maker of THE (cannot make "THE" big enough) Free Software distribution mankind has today cannot understand the difference between the "community" project(s) presented here (where SUN has 90-98% to say over it

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Bill Sommerfeld
On Fri, 2007-11-02 at 13:16 -0400, Ian Murdock wrote: > I don't even know where to begin. You should start with the choice of name. Names are very important. Pick a new one that properly communicates this release's status as an experimental prototype produced by a subset of the community witho

Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread Tim Foster
+1 This says it all for me. I'm also getting pretty sick of the rather negative atmosphere around the mailing lists at the moment. We just shipped a major milestone, and people are doing nothing but bitching about it. I'm glad the responsible project team are a pretty thick skinned bunch, because

Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] I'm sorry, but I just don't get it

2007-11-02 Thread James Carlson
Ian Murdock writes: > Does it matter at all that the feedback outside this community to [...] No. None of those things are actually under discussion here. What's under discussion is the taking of the name "OpenSolaris" and the branding of this particular distribution as the one and only OpenSola

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