Re: an over-the-top data center

> Gadi, > I can't help that you need a few nights away in a lovely Swiss Hotel > in order to help those cynical thoughts lift: > > http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,28318,24732642-5014090,00.html That looks too noisy. This seems to be a little more upscale. http://www.budgettravel.com/bt-

RE: Telecom Collapse?

That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the power was out, or the Internet connectivity was flaking out. 2.) 911 would function exactly the way it is

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Dec 4, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Russell J. Lahti wrote: That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the power was out, or the Internet connectivity was f

Re: Recommendation of Tools

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Anders Lindbäck wrote: Mtr is even less usefull then that, in its default mode it does a traceroute and then proceeds to ICMP Ping flood each IP in the list generated by the traceroute, the result is usually completly useless on WAN topologies due to asym-routing, ICMP node

VoIP E911 - was: Telecom Collapse?

With one provider in Canada at least, the E911 address to phone number registration is a large bureaucratic manual process, likely involving fax machines. Meanwhile, the ILEC presumably has an address in a database for the loop... So, I wonder about more direct access to PSAPs by CLEC, anywhere

RE: Telecom Collapse?

In the past, an inactive cell phone could still dial 911. I'm not sure if that's still the case, but it used to be, at least with some carriers. Chuck -Original Message- From: Russell J. Lahti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 7:47 AM To: 'Mike Lyon'; 'Alex R

Re: Telecom Collapse?

I believe there is a law that requires just that, even if you don't have an active service plan the phone must still be able to access 911. Josh On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 8:44 AM, Church, Charles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In the past, an inactive cell phone could still dial 911. I'm not sure >

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ One thing doesn't make sense in that article: it talks about

RE: VoIP E911 - was: Telecom Collapse?

I would agree on that, my voip setup at my house took several faxes back and forth to the provider to get it working right. Then it took a week for the 911 dispatch center to actually see my address as correct when I placed test calls. -Original Message- From: Jeremy Jackson [mailto:[EM

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it might be of interest to this community: http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ One thing doesn't make sense in that

RE: Telecom Collapse?

A Marine VHF works under almost any circumstances, and anywhere coastal in the world. You can almost always reach the Coast Guard. >-Original Message- >From: Marshall Eubanks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:56 AM >To: Russell J. Lahti >Cc: nanog@nanog.org;

RE: Telecom Collapse?

If they had made any decent investment in plant, or had not run the DSL CLECs out of business, they could make money on DSL and Video services, or by leasing the unused copper. There's no sympathy for companies that have been nothing more than obstacles to progress. >-Original Message- >

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On 2008-12-04, at 09:47, Josh Potter wrote: I believe there is a law that requires just that, even if you don't have an active service plan the phone must still be able to access 911. With GSM phones you don't even need a SIM in the phone to call 911 (and equivalent numbers in other regio

RE: Telecom Collapse?

Well put Joe... I haven't had a landline in quite a bit neither and rely on VOIP today. This doesn't mean that it's never gone down but for the few times it ever has it has never worried me. There's at least two cell phones in our house whenever the family is home and I have neighbors within quic

Re: Telecom Collapse?

> That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I > have two young children, and I need to be sure that if something > were to ever happen that: 1.) The phone would work even if the > power was out, or the Internet connectivity was flaking out. > 2.) 911 would function exactly the

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Once upon a time, Paul Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > What worries me the most is a power outage longer than say 8 hours. > This is the typical battery time at most cell sites, telco remotes and > many telco CO's. Beyond those 8 hours, it's quite probable that the > site will go down and you'

Re: Telecom Collapse?

People have been digging up fiber thinking it's copper anyways, but yeah that's a big problem. On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Joe Greco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That is the one and only thing keeping a land line at my home. I > > have two young children, and I need to be sure that if some

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Joe Abley wrote: > > I seem to remember when I *did* have dial-tone from Bell Canada I'd pick > up the handset and get dead air a disturbing proportion of the time. The > idea that copper wire-line providers are the only ones who can provide > stable telephony doesn't ring true, for me. There's a

Re: Recommendation of Tools

On 4 dec 2008, at 14.05, Pekka Savola wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2008, Anders Lindbäck wrote: Mtr is even less usefull then that, in its default mode it does a traceroute and then proceeds to ICMP Ping flood each IP in the list generated by the traceroute, the result is usually completly useless

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Paul Stewart wrote: > > There's at least two cell phones in our house whenever the family is > home and I have neighbors within quick walking distance. > That's assuming they're not doing the same thing you are, are home, or are willing to let you borrow their phone. You're assuming a lot. I fin

Re: Telecom Collapse?

In my experience with a fiber to the home deployment I feel that the trend of moving away from the stability of POTS lines for emergency service is acceptable for most people. Most battery backups allow for around 36 hours of dialtone. The overwhelming majority of power outages last nowhere near th

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Solar is civil defence - that goes for Node Bs as well as citizens. In the UK, I have absolutely no confidence in the reliability of our major cable op, because everywhere I go I find their street cabinets broken into, presumably by scum looking for copper (how long will they take to respond to th

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 10:13:14 -0600 "Paul Bosworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In my experience with a fiber to the home deployment I feel that the > trend of moving away from the stability of POTS lines for emergency > service is acceptable for most people. Most battery backups allow for > around

RE: Telecom Collapse?

> The AT&T (BellSouth) remotes around here installed in the last 10 years > or so typically have natural gas generators installed, and the COs have > a pair of generators for redundancy. Even many of the cell towers have > generators. The telco infrastructure is pretty well backed up (I don't > k

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Mike Lyon wrote: > That makes two of us... > > Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are > providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people > call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential > realm going with VOIP offerings... >

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Many proposed regulations are struck down before they become required regulation. Just like the FCC mandates that POTS and fiber have guaranteed battery, the FCC will mandate that cellular towers do the same. This is inevitable. The telco industry is notorious for litigating to death anything that

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Paul Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: What worries me the most is a power outage longer than say 8 hours. This is the typical battery time at most cell sites, telco remotes and many telco CO's. Beyond those 8 hours, it's quite probable that the site will go

RE: Telecom Collapse?

And it gets better: AT&T to reduce workforce by 12,000 - AT&T Inc. will layoff 12,000 of its employees, or 4 percent of its total workforce, in response to recent economic pressures. Sprint/Nextel has had negative net income of $326mm, $829mm, and $505mm for the last three quarters. Verizon s

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On 2008-12-04, at 11:06, Chris Marlatt wrote: That's assuming they're not doing the same thing you are, are home, or are willing to let you borrow their phone. You're assuming a lot. I find it surprising that many people replying haven't kept a 911 only POTS line. This is straying far fro

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Paul Bosworth wrote: On a personal note, when I worked in telecom I never once saw a cell tower that was down due to power loss. Every tower I have worked with had some form of power generation, be it natural gas or diesel. In addition, as a cellular service consumer I have also never experienced

Re: Telecom Collapse?

There will always be exceptions to the rule. Nature can be quite ugly to service infrastructure and the best service providers can do is pull double duty to get services back up as quickly as possible. As you said, cellular was torn up pretty badly, but then again so was the power grid and the hard

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:59:00 PST, Paul Ferguson said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ The article goes on to quote some other source regarding Hawaii

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Joe Abley wrote: This is straying far from network operations, but I think 911 generally engenders an unnecessary degree of hysteria. As I suggested before, the marketing of this fear from certain quarters has apparently been quiet effective. Many will agree with you; unless 911 saved their l

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: What about the cell site? See http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/12/03/ap5776571.html The FCC proposed in May 2007 that all cell towers have a minimum of eight hours of backup power, which would switch on if a tower lost it

route-views maintenance

Folks, We're planning a brief outage on route-views.routeviews.org at 1200 PST today (basically, upgrading processor and memory; thanks Chip Sharp). Thanks, Dave signature.asc Description: Digital signature

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Large scale Tesla coils would be pretty awesome :) On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Justin M. Streiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Steven M. Bellovin wrote: > > What about the cell site? See >> http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/12/03/ap5776571.html >> >>The FCC p

Re: Telecom Collapse?

That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position of figuring out how to come into the 21st century and actually compete for business. But I

Re: Telecom Collapse?

For my own $0.02 worth, I would like to point out the kind of engineering that was done during the days of Ma Bell - when it was THE phone company, and had the world in it's pocket - was quite spectacular and resulted in telecommunications systems that largely stood up and continued functioni

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any > of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it > might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position of > fi

Re: Recommendation of Tools

On 4 dec 2008, at 17.49, Daniel Hagerty wrote: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_Lindb=E4ck?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: According to the 0.75 sorcecode ICMP is still the default prot used, =20 and the definition of MTR from bitwizards homepage disagress with you: Have you considered checking a

Re: Telecom Collapse?

I think we've figured out the next get together for the next nanog. Make sure there is a gun range within an hour drive On 12/4/08, Wayne E. Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any > of them know how to run a decent business

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Daniel Senie wrote: Mike Lyon wrote: That makes two of us... Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential realm going with VOIP o

Re: Telecom Collapse?

> On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any > > of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it > > might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Dec 4, 2008, at 12:20 PM, Wayne E. Bouchard wrote: That the old ILECs are having problems due to the fact that few if any of them know how to run a decent business is not exactly news. IMO, it might be best if some of them were finaly placed in the position of figuring out how to come into the

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 08:48:27AM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > > might be of interest to this community: > > > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-

[NANOG-announce] NANOG45 Update

Hi Everyone:> On behalf of Merit, we look forward to our continued working relationship with the NANOG SC and PC who are working hard to bring a great program to NANOG45.   Our Host, Terremark, continues to work hard to provide all of the additional support items to make everyone comfortable in

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Joe Abley wrote: This is straying far from network operations, but I think 911 generally engenders an unnecessary degree of hysteria. As I suggested before, the marketing of this fear from certain quarters has apparently been quiet effective. The probability of any single individual needing t

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 11:18:42 -0800 Michael Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Joe Abley wrote: > > This is straying far from network operations, but I think 911 > > generally engenders an unnecessary degree of hysteria. As I > > suggested before, the marketing of this fear from certain quarters >

RE: [SPAM-HEADER] - Re: Telecom Collapse? - Email has different SMTP TO: and MIME TO: fields in the email addresses

I am not sure. Business lines are significantly higher priced than residential lines and the conventional wisdom was that there is a cross sudsidy. How it shakes out across all phone lines is unclear to me. A lot depends on the economic realism of depreciation schedule. I'm not familiar with h

NANOG45 Update

Hi Everyone:> On behalf of Merit, we look forward to our continued working relationship with the NANOG SC and PC who are working hard to bring a great program to NANOG45. Our Host, Terremark, continues to work hard to provide all of the additional support items to make everyone comfortable in

RE: Telecom Collapse?

The ILEC is the carrier of last resort. The wireless carrier doesn't have to build coverage everywhere. They don't need to serve that hog barn that requires a 10,000 feet copper loop while playing $17/month. The problem is that whether the take rate for POTS is 75% or 95%, the ILEC still needs

RE: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Frank Bulk wrote: The ILEC is the carrier of last resort. The wireless carrier doesn't have to build coverage everywhere. They don't need to serve that hog barn that requires a 10,000 feet copper loop while playing $17/month. They gladly hit you up for an FCC mandated uni

RE: Telecom Collapse?

I find it amusing that: 1. Many assume one is able to get POTS everywhere 2. How some use the term "POTS" when in reality they're referring to VoIP Pardon the length, but to make the point, here's one of many Canadian examples some of us are intimately familiar with: -Construction conglomerate st

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Erik (Caneris) wrote: > > So it can be argued both ways. Ultimately, it all comes down to marketing and > hype. With everything going to IP at both the core and edge (yes, I chose the > terms deliberately) and analogue-digital-analogue or TDM-IP-TDM-IP > conversation happening so many times, th

RE: Telecom Collapse?

They do. But I'm sure you know the FCC has capped some of the funds, with plans to cap more of it. That may be good or bad, depending if you're a wireless or wireline carrier drawing on those funds or not. Frank -Original Message- From: Justin M. Streiner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent

RE: Telecom Collapse?

The classic problem of the ILECs is that they have a government backed monopoly on the local loops everywhere and they leverage that monopoly to compete with companies that don't have government backing. For my $0.02,there are two good options. 1. Eliminate the FCC Universal Service/Coverage fund

Re: Telecom Collapse?

The Verizon lay-offs article you linked to ("Verizon just laid off thousands of people ") in the blog post is dated December 29, *2002* Cheers, Jayfar On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Jim Cowie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Lorell Hathcock wrote: The classic problem of the ILECs is that they have a government backed monopoly on the local loops everywhere and they leverage that monopoly to compete with companies that don't have government backing. Monopoly? Really? I could have sworn someone devised the idea of CLE

Re: Telecom Collapse?

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:59:00 PST, Paul Ferguson said: > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure it > might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collapse/ The articl

Stress Testing LAN/WAN

I have the need to stress test a LAN and WAN. The primary concern is the WAN which is at most OC-3. The LAN would be an additional bonus if I could do that as well. I am familiar with tools such as those from Spirent and IXIA which are very expensive. I was wondering if someone has had t

Re: Stress Testing LAN/WAN

On 5/12/2008, at 11:23 AM, Brian Feeny wrote: I have the need to stress test a LAN and WAN. The primary concern is the WAN which is at most OC-3. The LAN would be an additional bonus if I could do that as well. I am familiar with tools such as those from Spirent and IXIA which are very

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 11:10:57PM -0800, Mike Lyon wrote: > Anyways, for residential VOIP, where are we these days with E911? Are > providers like Vonage and such providing reliable E911 when people > call 911? That is one of the major problems I see with the residential > realm going with VOIP of

RE: Stress Testing LAN/WAN

You can download a copy of the SolarWinds toolset from our website (the eval is free). There's a traffic generator in there called "WAN Killer". Give it a try. Josh -Original Message- From: Nathan Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:27 PM To: nanog list Su

RE: Stress Testing LAN/WAN

I have used Solarwinds Wan Killer, but have yet to discover a method of initiating round-trip traffic from a single generator, but Solarwinds can stress a GiGE MAN link using a desktop PC with a GiGE card as the generator. -Original Message- From: Stephens, Josh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: Stress Testing LAN/WAN

To generate round-trip traffic you have to enable echo services on the target host and then send to that port. On a Windows box I think it's called "Simple TCP Services" and then you send the traffic to TCP Echo. HTH, Josh -Original Message- From: Holmes,David A [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

network testbed (was: Stress Testing LAN/WAN)

Coincidentally, this week I was asked to specify current and next-gen equipment for a new network testbed at $DAYJOB. This lab would be used to test software used to monitor large networks. Specifically I need to setup an environment similar to that of large SPs, with emphasis on MPLS, STP, OSPF

Re: Stress Testing LAN/WAN

With iperf, you can use the -d option to initiate a "real-time parallel" test (my term). You can also use the -r option to run a "trade-off parallel" test (again, my term). To see the other options iperf offers: http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/resources/guide/software/iperf/ Sounds like you m

Re: Telecom Collapse?

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:18 PM, Michael Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We haven't really had a major catastrophe where we've been totally > dependent on IP yet, AFIAK. Maybe all of the qos, call gapping and > the rest of the stuff the TDM networks do to deal with disasters > will be left

Re: Stress Testing LAN/WAN

We use iperf running off of a bootable Linux CD with a 2.4 Kernel and can push 960 to 980 Mbps with no drops or errors on any pair of PCs with Gig interfaces we have tried so far. We usually 10 TCP streams, or tune the TCP stack and use a single stream. We also capture the traffic on both sides,

NANOG 45: Register Now, Hotel Link Available

Folks, NANOG 45 in the Dominican Republic is fast approaching, so now is the time to go get registered for the conference. You can register for NANOG 45 at: https://nanog.merit.edu/registration/ I'm also pleased to report that our hotel has provided us with with a direct link for online r

RE: Telecom Collapse?

Yes, that's correct as far as I know -- though you might not be able to receive a return call from the dispatcher. - S -Original Message- From: Church, Charles [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 9:44 AM To: Russell J. Lahti Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: Telec

RE: Telecom Collapse?

No POTS line here. New office is all VoIP, too. For my own use, though, I'm sticking with cell. Don't recall the last time that there was an outage to the point where I couldn't make a voice call in the past few years (though I've seen EVDO data go down for my region and have had to fall back

Re: Telecom Collapse?

Skywing wrote: No POTS line here. New office is all VoIP, too. For my own use, though, I'm sticking with cell. Don't recall the last time that there was an outage to the point where I couldn't make a voice call in the past few years (though I've seen EVDO data go down for my region and have

Re: Telecom Collapse?

I believe its still the case, but you can order from the local LEC a soft-dial tone. You hear dial tone, however the only calls that can be made are to the LEC's Billing & to the PSAP(911). This might be a good option for people w/ kids, etc. without paying the full price of a land line. I used to

RE: Telecom Collapse?

Even "disconnected" customers due to non-pay have access to E-911 Frank -Original Message- From: b nickell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 10:12 PM To: Russell J. Lahti Cc: nanog@nanog.org; Alex Rubenstein Subject: Re: Telecom Collapse? I believe its stil

Re: Telecom Collapse?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Paul Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I deliberated for a while on whether to send this, or not, but I figure > it might be of interest to this community: > > http://techliberation.com/2008/12/04/telecom-collap