ay
choose not to get involved in such agreements to save time/money.
-Original Message-
From: NANOG On Behalf
Of Sean Donelan
Sent: January 2, 2025 5:52 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024, Brandon Martin wrote:
> But yeah, I'm of
2, 2025 5:51:45 PM
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024, Brandon Martin wrote:
> But yeah, I'm of the impression that anything we'd colloquially call a
> "mansion" (which is much bigger than what the real estate agents would call
> one)
On Mon, 30 Dec 2024, Brandon Martin wrote:
But yeah, I'm of the impression that anything we'd colloquially call a
"mansion" (which is much bigger than what the real estate agents would call
one) is probably going to have dedicated service of some sort. The same goes
for larger hotels, though s
On 12/30/24 14:09, Sean Donelan wrote:
Uhm. Do you realize that cable is asymetric, with less than 35 Mbps
upstream, and marketing bandwidth numbers aren't real? Mega-mansions
like the Gates estate are like small hotels, and sometimes have parties
(charity events) with over 200 people, and cor
On Sun, 29 Dec 2024, Josh Luthman wrote:
Why can't Gates just use the 1.2 Gbps Cable? Just because he has the wealth
to do something doesn't mean there's any requirement to do so.
Uhm. Do you realize that cable is asymetric, with less than 35 Mbps
upstream, and marketing bandwidth numbers are
On Sat, 28 Dec 2024, Mike Hammett wrote:
But you don't have to be that rich. You just need friendly local
companies to work with.
I'm not personal friends with any multi-billionaires, and I don't get
invited to parties at multi-billionaire mega-mansions. So I don't have
first-hand experience
Why can't Gates just use the 1.2 Gbps Cable? Just because he has the
wealth to do something doesn't mean there's any requirement to do so.
On Fri, Dec 27, 2024 at 8:38 PM Sean Donelan wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > "But even the rich can't fix broadband access beyond thei
(CST)
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Mike Hammett wrote:
> "But even the rich can't fix broadband access beyond their property line."
>
> It depends on how rich. ;-)
The limitations of the FCC Broadband map, if you are in the Top
(CST)
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Mike Hammett wrote:
> "But even the rich can't fix broadband access beyond their property line."
>
> It depends on how rich. ;-)
The limitations of the FCC Broadband map, if you are in the Top
(CST)
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Mike Hammett wrote:
> "But even the rich can't fix broadband access beyond their property line."
>
> It depends on how rich. ;-)
The limitations of the FCC Broadband map, if you are in the Top
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Mike Hammett wrote:
"But even the rich can't fix broadband access beyond their property line."
It depends on how rich. ;-)
The limitations of the FCC Broadband map, if you are in the Top 10 (not
percent, the Top 10) wealthest people in the USA, it doesn't apply to
reali
/www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Sean Donelan"
> To: "NANOG list"
> Sent: Friday, December 27, 2024 4:36:36 PM
> Subject: Re[2]: New home builders without wires
>
>
uting Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
- Original Message -
From: "Sean Donelan"
To: "NANOG list"
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2024 4:36:36 PM
Subject: Re[2]: New home builders without wires
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Aaron Wendel wrote:
> W
On Fri, 27 Dec 2024, Aaron Wendel wrote:
When I built my house a few years ago I put a 0 entry hand hole with 2"
conduit in the ROW in front and pulled 96 SM into the basement. It takes a
little convincing to get the providers to connect out there instead of
running their own lines into my hou
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2024 1:29:00 PM
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
About 20% of new home construction is owner-financed ("Custom" homes). The
builder will add essentially any "commercially reasonable" options the
owner is willing to p
good.
-- Original Message --
From "Sean Donelan"
To nanog@nanog.org
Date 12/27/2024 1:29:00 PM
Subject Re: New home builders without wires
About 20% of new home construction is owner-financed ("Custom" homes). The builder will
add essentially any "commercially reasonable&qu
About 20% of new home construction is owner-financed ("Custom" homes). The
builder will add essentially any "commercially reasonable" options the
owner is willing to pay for. But even the rich can't fix broadband access
beyond their property line.
About 80% of new home construction is builder
Send that builder a fruit basket. That's behavior we need to encourage.
--TimH
On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 16:45:15 -0500
Justin Streiner wrote:
> We were also very fortunate that the builder provided two 2" Schedule 40
> conduits from the side of our house out to the utility hand-holes in the
> right
To:
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
When my wife and I were preparing to build our house a few years ago, solid
terrestrial connectivity was one of the top things on my must-have list,
because we both work from home the vast majority of the time.
It took som
When my wife and I were preparing to build our house a few years ago, solid
terrestrial connectivity was one of the top things on my must-have list,
because we both work from home the vast majority of the time.
It took some tenacity with the local FTTH provider to determine if they
served this are
On Thu, 19 Dec 2024, Karl Auer wrote:
A friend was involved in a development project in a regional town. They
specified conduits everywhere. When the network people showed up at
some random later date, they mostly just had to pull stuff through
existing conduits. Not sure of the details beyond th
@nanog.org
Sent: Fri, 06 Dec 2024 02:31:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 at 05:30, Mark Tinka wrote:
> I ran Ethernet to every room, some of it using STP through conduits crossing
> the roof to get across one end of the house to the other. It hel
On Wed, 2024-12-18 at 16:27 -0500, Sean Donelan wrote:
> Utility hired subcontractors don't show up on time when a
> builder has the utility trenches open, or they show up months/years
> afterwards. Damage things digging up utility right-of-ways, that the
> developer has to repair.
A friend was in
Although some folks were talking about inside structured wiring, I was
trying to address lack of outside plant (provider side to DEMARC). I went
down the rabbit hole trying to understand what was happening when my
friend first told me about buying in a neighborhood with no telephone or
cabl
consequence fault that every modern jurisdictions code
memorializes.
-- Original Message --
From "Saku Ytti"
To "Mark Tinka"
Cc nanog@nanog.org
Date 12/6/2024 3:31:41 AM
Subject Re: New home builders without wires
On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 at 05:30, Mark Tinka wrote:
On 12/6/24 10:31, Saku Ytti wrote:
In the EU at least you cannot do that, you can't use the same conduits
for data and power. But it's been in the code for a long time now to
have ethernet upon delivery, both CAT6a (rooms) and fiber (just a
single place is enough, I think).
I am using after-
On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 at 05:30, Mark Tinka wrote:
> I ran Ethernet to every room, some of it using STP through conduits crossing
> the roof to get across one end of the house to the other. It helped me avoid
> wireless extenders and meshing technologies.
In the EU at least you cannot do that, you
On 12/5/24 20:48, j...@joelesler.net wrote:
If I ever build the next house, I’ll ensure that Ethernet is installed
just as extensively as electric wiring.
It's a no-brainer.
My house was built in the early 90's, so no Ethernet at that time.
I ran Ethernet to every room, some of it using
NEC wouldn't apply to telecommunications/low voltage. You may think yellow
is common because of single mode fiber. Gray is far more common in the
field in/on buildings. OSP is usually orange, because orange is the color
for telecommunications/phone/internet. Gas plants use yellow
markers/tracer
On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 8:15 PM William Herrin wrote:
> As others have noted: conduit is smarter. Communication cable
> standards remain in a state of flux much more rapid than the lifetime
> of a house and the little blue one-inch conduits are not exceptionally
> expensive.
And electricians (and
On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 10:48 AM wrote:
> If I ever build the next house, I’ll ensure that Ethernet is installed just
> as extensively as electric wiring.
Hi Joel,
As others have noted: conduit is smarter. Communication cable
standards remain in a state of flux much more rapid than the lifetime
If I ever build the next house, I’ll ensure that Ethernet is installed just as
extensively as electric wiring.
> On Dec 5, 2024, at 10:23, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
>
> NDI or similar? I don't follow. Cable TV, Cable Internet and sat TV aren't
> distributed (to homes) using NDI, they use coax.
>
NDI or similar? I don't follow. Cable TV, Cable Internet and sat TV aren't
distributed (to homes) using NDI, they use coax.
On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 1:37 AM Joly MacFie wrote:
>
> > How else would you distribute cable and sat tv?
> NDI or similar
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 1:15 PM Tom Deligian
> How else would you distribute cable and sat tv?
NDI or similar
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 1:15 PM Tom Deligiannis
wrote:
> How else would you distribute cable and sat tv? I would never buy a home
> or build a home if there weren't hard wired services to the home. The last
> thing I want to do is
On 12/4/24 20:15, Tom Deligiannis wrote:
How else would you distribute cable and sat tv? I would never buy a
home or build a home if there weren't hard wired services to the home.
The last thing I want to do is run all media streaming and internet
surfing through a wireless 5g connection.
The coax was part of the electrician's standard build package, so it was no
added cost for us to leave it in their spec. While we're not using the
coax today, it's handy to have if needed. I terminated and tested the coax
while I was doing the Cat7 and it didn't take me much extra time.
Thank yo
On 12/4/24 13:49, j...@joelesler.net wrote:
On Dec 4, 2024, at 16:12, Jerry Cloe wrote:
Even with broadcast, the need for coax (vs network) is going away.
People that use broadcast still want "cable type" services, mainly dvr
and channel guides. With so many options out there, TiVo, HDHomeRun
Coaxial cable runs from the street to my house at my most recent purchase. All
the “cable boxes” in the house are wireless. They are essentially whitelisted
Android TV boxes.
—
Joel Esler
Vice President, Security
ThreatSTOP
> On Dec 4, 2024, at 16:12, Jerry Cloe wrote:
>
> Even with broadcas
Even with broadcast, the need for coax (vs network) is going away. People that
use broadcast still want "cable type" services, mainly dvr and channel guides.
With so many options out there, TiVo, HDHomeRun, MythTV, many others, all of
them only need coax to the unit, then distribute via IP from
use)
-Original Message-
From: NANOG On Behalf Of
William Herrin
Sent: December 4, 2024 2:40 PM
To: Tim Burke
Cc: NANOG
Subject: Re: New home builders without wires
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 11:41 AM Tim Burke wrote:
> Cable companies are still doing coax for new neighborhoods and
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 11:41 AM Tim Burke wrote:
> Cable companies are still doing coax for new neighborhoods and even
> overbuilds in 2024, for some reason.
Their staff knows how to run coax, how to troubleshoot coax and how to
repair coax. To do something else, they have to hire and/or train
s
Its so cheap, its an opportunity cost thing.
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 3:02 PM Nathan Angelacos wrote:
> On Wed, 2024-12-04 at 09:12 -0500, Joly MacFie wrote:
>
> Excuse my ignorance, but why, in this day and age, coax?
>
> Joly
>
> I can't speak for the original poster. But SDI over coax comes to
Cable companies are still doing coax for new neighborhoods and even overbuilds
in 2024, for some reason.
One of the major cable operators just got done tearing up my neighborhood north
of Houston (that already had coax from another major operator in addition to
XGS-PON) to pull in coax with bla
On 12/4/24 10:54, Josh Baird wrote:
You could use modern media distribution systems over IP or HDBase-T.
But yeah, I would still run coax to each TV location -- even if you
don't intend on using it. You _may_ find a use for it at some point,
and the next person who lives in the home may want
You could use modern media distribution systems over IP or HDBase-T.
But yeah, I would still run coax to each TV location -- even if you don't
intend on using it. You _may_ find a use for it at some point, and the
next person who lives in the home may want it.
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 1:17 PM Tom
How else would you distribute cable and sat tv? I would never buy a home or
build a home if there weren't hard wired services to the home. The last
thing I want to do is run all media streaming and internet surfing through
a wireless 5g connection.
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 8:13 AM Joly MacFie wrote
On Wed, 2024-12-04 at 09:12 -0500, Joly MacFie wrote:
> Excuse my ignorance, but why, in this day and age, coax?
>
> Joly
>
I can't speak for the original poster. But SDI over coax comes to
mind.
Excuse my ignorance, but why, in this day and age, coax?
Joly
On Wed, Dec 4, 2024 at 7:14 AM Justin Streiner wrote:
> When we built our new house 3 years ago, I had the electrician pull Cat7
> and coax to most of the rooms in the house, since it would be way easier to
> do it before the drywall
When we built our new house 3 years ago, I had the electrician pull Cat7
and coax to most of the rooms in the house, since it would be way easier to
do it before the drywall went up. They initially resisted because they had
never worked with Cat7 before. I struck a deal with them where I bought
t
On 12/3/24 20:27, Tim Howe wrote:
It's always too late.
Installing facilities after the fact will cost 50 times more
than if they had been done during neighborhood construction. Nobody
will want to pay for that. It will not pencil out for a competing
provider to foot the b
: Tuesday, December 3, 2024 19:53
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: New home builders without wires
As some may remember from earlier this year, my friend was buying a new
"semi-custom" home. "Semi-custom" is a marketing term, meaning you get to
choose (pay more) pre-determined builde
ssage-
> From: NANOG On
> Behalf
> Of Sean Donelan
> Sent: December 3, 2024 10:53 AM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: New home builders without wires
>
> As some may remember from earlier this year, my friend was buying a new
> "semi-custom" home. "Semi-custom
On Tue, Dec 3, 2024 at 8:53 AM Sean Donelan wrote:
> According to the real estate realtor, not the builder's sales agent,
> broadband is now in the top three things home buyers want to know. Some
> states require the realtor MLS to disclose broadband access in the home
> listings. Broadband access
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 20:15:46 +0200
Mark Tinka wrote:
> I doubt it will be long until sense prevails.
It's always too late.
Installing facilities after the fact will cost 50 times more
than if they had been done during neighborhood construction. Nobody
will want to pay for that.
On 12/3/24 18:53, Sean Donelan wrote:
As some may remember from earlier this year, my friend was buying a
new "semi-custom" home. "Semi-custom" is a marketing term, meaning
you get to choose (pay more) pre-determined builder options. It is not
custom designed.
The home builder was not in
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