Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Jack Bates
On 10/18/2010 7:16 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: You are to be commended for your leadership in conserving space. Our children will surely be grateful that thanks to your efforts they have 99.9% of IPv6 space left to work with rather than the paltry 99.9975% that might have been their inher

RE: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread George Bonser
> -Original Message- > From: Robert E. Seastrom > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:17 PM > To: sth...@nethelp.no > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption > You are to be commended for your leadership in conserving space. Our > children will surely be grat

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread ML
IPv6 isn't going to make class-based routing obsolete... is it? *ducks* cheers! Andrew Of course not. My users are already asking for some Class G networks (/56) to use.

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Doug Barton
On 10/18/2010 5:16 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: sth...@nethelp.no writes: I still haven't seen any good argument for why residential users need /48s. No, I don't think "that makes all the address assignments the same size" is a particularly relevant or convincing argument. We're doing /56 fo

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Robert Bonomi
> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Mon Oct 18 09:13:13 > 2010 > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:13:35 +0100 > From: Nick Hilliard > To: Brandon Kim > Subject: Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > > On 18/10/2010 14:27, Brandon Kim wrote: > > Good question

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Andrews
In message <35804bc3-9efe-4ce4-b13a-f2e15c420...@americafree.tv>, Marshall Euba nks writes: > It makes a bigger difference if everyone starts using 6RD - to give out = > a /48 effectively=20 > requires a /16, and the number of /16s is by no means approximately = > infinite.=20 > > Regards > Mars

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Andrew Kirch
On 10/18/2010 5:46 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:52:18 PDT, George Bonser said: > Those people are next on my hit list, after we've finally eliminated those > who still talk about class A/B/C addresses. :) > IPv6 isn't going to make class-based routing obsolete... is

Re: network name 101100010100110.net

2010-10-18 Thread Robert Bonomi
> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 23:33:13 -0700 > From: Joel Jaeggli > Subject: Re: network name 101100010100110.net > > On 10/17/10 8:24 PM, Joe Hamelin wrote: > > That's why 3M registered mmm.com back in 1988. > > and not just because minnestoaminingandmanufacturing.com is hard to type... Like they ha

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread David Conrad
RS, On Oct 18, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > If we were to give a /48 to every human on the face of the planet, we > would use about .25 of the total available IPv6 address space. Sure. I once did the math that suggested that even if you multiplied the current IPv4 consumpti

Re: network name 101100010100110.net

2010-10-18 Thread Robert Bonomi
> From nanog-bounces+bonomi=mail.r-bonomi@nanog.org Sun Oct 17 22:23:13 > 2010 > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 20:24:30 -0700 > Subject: Re: network name 101100010100110.net > From: Joe Hamelin > To: Mark Andrews > Cc: bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com, nanog@nanog.org > > That's why 3M registered mmm

Re: Network Operators Europe?

2010-10-18 Thread Kuniaki Kondo
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 06:02:56 -0400 Day Domes wrote: > What is the name of the mailing list for Network Operators Europe? there is a nogs list. http://www.bugest.net/nogs.html - kuniaki

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Robert E. Seastrom
Marshall Eubanks writes: > It makes a bigger difference if everyone starts using 6RD - to give > out a /48 effectively requires a /16, and the number of /16s is by > no means approximately infinite. Don't I know it! Poorly designed protocol, but what're we gonna do? I was of the "a /56 was bad

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Marshall Eubanks
On Oct 18, 2010, at 8:16 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: > > sth...@nethelp.no writes: > >> I still haven't seen any good argument for why residential users need >> /48s. No, I don't think "that makes all the address assignments the >> same size" is a particularly relevant or convincing argument.

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread Randy Carpenter
John, Thank you very much. That clarification helps out quite a bit. -Randy -- | Randy Carpenter | Vice President, IT Services | Red Hat Certified Engineer | First Network Group, Inc. | (419)739-9240, x1 - Original Message - > On Oct 18, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Robert E. Seastrom
sth...@nethelp.no writes: > I still haven't seen any good argument for why residential users need > /48s. No, I don't think "that makes all the address assignments the > same size" is a particularly relevant or convincing argument. > > We're doing /56 for residential users, and have no plans to c

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread John Curran
On Oct 18, 2010, at 3:42 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > I have a few customers whose allocations are /29 away from their nearest > neighbor (half a nibble). That seems a little close considering there is a > lot of talk about doing nibble boundaries, and there doesn't seem to be > consensus yet

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Henning Brauer
* Ricky Beam [2010-10-18 21:32]: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 08:30:48 -0400, Henning Brauer > wrote: > >"Currently, the Pica8 driver is released in binary form" > > > >none of the interesting low-level drivers is open. none. zero. > > If it's based on a Broadcom chip, trust me, they are doing the worl

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Smith
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Doug Barton wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Owen DeLong wrote: > > > I think it's generally a bad idea. /48 is the design architecture for > > IPv6. It allows for significant innovation in the SOHO arena that we > > haven't accounted for in some of our cu

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:52:18 PDT, George Bonser said: > > From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com] > > The good news is that stateful inspection doesn't go away in IPv6. It works > > just fine. All that goes away is the header mangling. > > Exactly true but there are people out there who experi

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Seth Mattinen
On 10/18/2010 14:39, Doug Barton wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> I think it's generally a bad idea. /48 is the design architecture for >> IPv6. It allows for significant innovation in the SOHO arena that we >> haven't accounted for in some of our current thinking. > > Q:

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Dorian Kim
Wouldn't it be better to leave such labels and judgements to future generations? I'm sure they'll be the best judge of who led them to paradise /ruin. -dorian

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Doug Barton
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Joe Greco wrote: For example, consider the T-Mobile Sidekick Danger server crash/disaster. This is frequently pointed to as a "failure of the cloud", but in reality, it appears to have been trusting data to a company that wasn't exercising proper care in maintaining its serv

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Doug Barton
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Owen DeLong wrote: I think it's generally a bad idea. /48 is the design architecture for IPv6. It allows for significant innovation in the SOHO arena that we haven't accounted for in some of our current thinking. Q: Why are /48s everywhere a good idea? A: Becaus

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Franck Martin
- Original Message - > From: "Joel Jaeggli" > To: "Franck Martin" > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > Sent: Tuesday, 19 October, 2010 8:58:57 AM > Subject: Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA > On 10/18/10 1:38 PM, Franck Martin wrote: > > I'm an IPv6 pioneer, because I did it the year, you could

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Valdis . Kletnieks
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:41:36 +0200, Jens Link said: > Jeroen Massar writes: > > > So, if your company is not doing IPv6 yet, you really are really getting > > late now. > > They won't listen. Consider it evolution in action. :) pgpBYy5yKbRFN.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Jack Bates
On 10/18/2010 3:51 PM, Franck Martin wrote: So they can't run their own services from home and have to request premium connectivity from you? Beside the IPv4 scarcity mentality we have the Telco mentality to fight... Happy days still ahead... Of course they can run their own services at hom

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
Generally the older allocations would be left in place until deprecated by attrition. At least that's what I plan to advocate in my policy proposal. Owen Sent from my iPad On Oct 18, 2010, at 12:42 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > I have a few customers whose allocations are /29 away from th

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 10/18/10 1:38 PM, Franck Martin wrote: > I'm an IPv6 pioneer, because I did it the year, you could really go > IPv6 only. That was when ICANN put IPv6 glue in the root zone, which > fell a few days before the IETF did an IPv4 blackout. > > I thank Russ to come up with this IPv4 blackout, becaus

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Franck Martin
So they can't run their own services from home and have to request premium connectivity from you? Beside the IPv4 scarcity mentality we have the Telco mentality to fight... Happy days still ahead... - Original Message - From: "Jack Bates" To: sth...@nethelp.no Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent:

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Franck Martin
Tunnels! OECD and many others recommends to do tunnels if your upstream is "uncooperative" They work well... This is why I say, get your clients first, think servers later... - Original Message - From: "Jonas Frey (Probe Networks)" To: "Jeffrey Lyon" Cc: "NANOG list" Sent: Tuesday,

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Franck Martin
I'm an IPv6 pioneer, because I did it the year, you could really go IPv6 only. That was when ICANN put IPv6 glue in the root zone, which fell a few days before the IETF did an IPv4 blackout. I thank Russ to come up with this IPv4 blackout, because it certainly encouraged ICANN to get its act an

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 10/18/10 12:42 PM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > I have a few customers whose allocations are /29 away from their > nearest neighbor (half a nibble). That seems a little close > considering there is a lot of talk about doing nibble boundaries, and > there doesn't seem to be consensus yet. > > For

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Jack Bates
On 10/18/2010 1:20 PM, sth...@nethelp.no wrote: I still haven't seen any good argument for why residential users need /48s. No, I don't think "that makes all the address assignments the same size" is a particularly relevant or convincing argument. We're doing /56 for residential users, and have

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread Randy Carpenter
I have a few customers whose allocations are /29 away from their nearest neighbor (half a nibble). That seems a little close considering there is a lot of talk about doing nibble boundaries, and there doesn't seem to be consensus yet. For these customers, I don't think they will need more than

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread John Curran
Randy - We'll likely put that out to the ARIN community for consultation at the point in time when becomes a potential issue. I expect we will have plenty of time before that needs to be considered at the present rate of allocation. /John John Curran President and CEO ARIN On Oct 18,

Re: Network Operators Europe?

2010-10-18 Thread Daniel Roesen
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 06:02:56AM -0400, Day Domes wrote: > What is the name of the mailing list for Network Operators Europe? The closest one to that is RIPE's European Operators Forum WG mailing list, but that one has zero traffic. http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/index.html Best regards, Dani

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 12:26 PM, Johnny Eriksson wrote: > "Tony Hain" wrote: > >> Actually nat does something for security, it decimates it. Any 'real' >> security system (physical, technology, ...) includes some form of audit >> trail. NAT explicitly breaks any form of audit trail, unless you are

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread Randy Carpenter
John, Can you tell us at what degree the bisection stops? i.e. does it keep going until there are no spaces left, or will you leave some space in between each one to leave some room for future needs for orgs that already have allocations? -Randy -- | Randy Carpenter | Vice President, IT Serv

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Jon Lewis wrote: > On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> The customers should get /48s. The /56 guideline is merely that and only for >> the smallest of sites. It's also subsequently turned out to be bad advice. > > Can you elaborate on why /56 is "bad advi

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Henning Brauer wrote: > * Owen DeLong [2010-10-18 18:29]: >> The good news is that stateful inspection doesn't go away in IPv6. > > that is right. > >> It works just fine. All that goes away is the header mangling. > > that is partially true. it can work just fin

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:18 AM, David Conrad wrote: > On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Jack Bates wrote: >> ARIN does reservations (unsure at what length, but at least down to /31). > > Do they still do that? Back when I was at IANA, one of the justifications > the RIRs gave for the /12s they receiv

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption - Sparse IPv6 allocation

2010-10-18 Thread John Curran
On Oct 18, 2010, at 2:18 PM, David Conrad wrote: > On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Jack Bates wrote: >> ARIN does reservations (unsure at what length, but at least down to /31). > > Do they still do that? Back when I was at IANA, one of the justifications > the RIRs gave for the /12s they received

Re: Terminology Request, WAS: Enterprise DNS providers

2010-10-18 Thread Ken Gilmour
On 18 October 2010 10:21, Mans Nilsson wrote: > Subject: Terminology Request, WAS: Enterprise DNS providers Date: Mon, Oct > 18, 2010 at 12:36:33AM -0700 Quoting Michael DeMan (na...@deman.com): > > Hi, > > > > I have been following this thread, and am mostly curious - can somebody > (or preferab

RE: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread George Bonser
> > > You are confusing SI with Packet Filters. The technologies are > different > and it is, also, important to understand this distinction as well. I don't think I am "confusing" the two. I am saying that I have seen people use them and think they are secure when they aren't. IPv6 is going to

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Seth Mattinen
On 10/18/2010 11:19, Henning Brauer wrote: > * Owen DeLong [2010-10-18 18:29]: >> The good news is that stateful inspection doesn't go away in IPv6. > > that is right. > >> It works just fine. All that goes away is the header mangling. > > that is partially true. it can work just fine, but all

RE: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Johnny Eriksson
"Tony Hain" wrote: > Actually nat does something for security, it decimates it. Any 'real' > security system (physical, technology, ...) includes some form of audit > trail. NAT explicitly breaks any form of audit trail, unless you are the one > operating the header mangling device. Given that th

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Ricky Beam
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 08:30:48 -0400, Henning Brauer wrote: "Currently, the Pica8 driver is released in binary form" none of the interesting low-level drivers is open. none. zero. If it's based on a Broadcom chip, trust me, they are doing the world a favor by not exposing you to the SoC SDK.

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread sthaug
> > don't decide without thinking it through that you're assigning a > > customer a /64 a /60 a /56 or even /48. this should be defensible as > > part of a business plan, otherwise what's the point? > > > A /48 is defensible. It's the architecturally intended end-site configuration, > it is allowe

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 10:52 AM, George Bonser wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com] >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:25 AM >> To: George Bonser >> Cc: Henning Brauer; nanog@nanog.org >> Subject: Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA >> >> >>

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Henning Brauer
* Owen DeLong [2010-10-18 18:29]: > The good news is that stateful inspection doesn't go away in IPv6. that is right. > It works just fine. All that goes away is the header mangling. that is partially true. it can work just fine, but all the bloat in v6 makes it way harder to implement the stat

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Jon Lewis
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Owen DeLong wrote: The customers should get /48s. The /56 guideline is merely that and only for the smallest of sites. It's also subsequently turned out to be bad advice. Can you elaborate on why /56 is "bad advice" and if you're saying it only for this case or if you're

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread David Conrad
On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Jack Bates wrote: > ARIN does reservations (unsure at what length, but at least down to /31). Do they still do that? Back when I was at IANA, one of the justifications the RIRs gave for the /12s they received was that they were going to be using the 'bisection' meth

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Jack Bates wrote: > On 10/18/2010 11:45 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> More accurately... A /48 per customer end-site... >> > > Define end0-site. Residential customers, for example, don't need more than a > /56. More would just be obscene. Most small businesses don

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:53 AM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > On 10/18/10 9:33 AM, Tony Hain wrote: >> This 'get a /32' BAD ADVICE has got to stop. There are way too many people >> trying to force fit their customers into a block that is intended for a >> start-up with ZERO customers. >> >> Develop a plan

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Jack Bates wrote: > > > On 10/18/2010 11:47 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote: >> >> Unfortunately, it is not as easy as that in practice. >> >> I recently worked with a customer that has ~60,000 customers >> currently. We tried to get a larger block, but were denied. ARI

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote: > > Unfortunately, it is not as easy as that in practice. > > I recently worked with a customer that has ~60,000 customers currently. We > tried to get a larger block, but were denied. ARIN said they would only issue > a /32, unless immediat

Re: Enterprise DNS providers

2010-10-18 Thread Darren Bolding
I have been quite happy with Dynect so far. They were very flexbile on a number of items and the service has been great. On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Shacolby Jackson < shaco...@bluejeansnet.com> wrote: > I have used UltraDNS before. They are decent. I am however evaluating > Dynect > (www.

Re: network name 101100010100110.net

2010-10-18 Thread Claudio Lapidus
Day, > does anyone see any issues with this? Please, I strongly urge you to consider the ergonomics in question. That name is REALLY hard to read, spell, pronounce, type, recognize, etc. Agreed that there are no technical roadblocks, but again, please use common sense and choose something that d

RE: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread George Bonser
> -Original Message- > From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com] > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 9:25 AM > To: George Bonser > Cc: Henning Brauer; nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA > > > > Nobody is using dynamic nat pools to block inbound connections.

Re: Enterprise DNS providers

2010-10-18 Thread Peter Beckman
On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, Ken Gilmour wrote: We are looking at urgently deploying an outsourced DNS provider for a critical domain which is currently unavailable but are having some difficulty. I've tried contacting UltraDNS who only allow customers from US / Canada to sign up (we are in Malta) and t

Re: network name 101100010100110.net

2010-10-18 Thread Barry Shein
On October 17, 2010 at 20:24 j...@nethead.com (Joe Hamelin) wrote: > That's why 3M registered mmm.com back in 1988. When BU joined the internet and promptly brought down about a third of it with their host table entries one of the problems was a host named 3b (.bu.edu, it was an AT&T 3B5) which

Re: Enterprise DNS providers

2010-10-18 Thread Brandon Galbraith
Working with a previous client about 1.5 years ago, we asked Dyn and UltraDNS to send proposals over. UltraDNS was 3x the Dyn quote, and we were satisfied from personal experience with Dyn before. When I explained to the UltraDNS rep why we went with Dyn, they said "Oh, I thought you were looking f

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 10/18/10 10:10 AM, Jack Bates wrote: > On 10/18/2010 11:45 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: >> >> More accurately... A /48 per customer end-site... >> > > Define end0-site. Residential customers, for example, don't need more > than a /56. This is a matter of opinion not gospel. larger, this size, or sma

[NANOG-announce] NANOG 51 Call For Presentations now open

2010-10-18 Thread David Meyer
Folks, Please take a look at the NANOG 51 Call For Presentations ( http://nanog.org/meetings/nanog51/callforpresent.php): he North American Network Operators' Group (NANOG) will hold its 51st meeting in Miami on January 30 to February 2, 2011. NANOG51w

Re: 12 years ago today...

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Smith
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 13:03:54 +0100 Will Hargrave wrote: > On 16/10/10 10:02, Warren Bailey wrote: > > > While we are on the subject of "the godfathers of the Internet", when is a > > documentary coming out that tells the story? There was a really long > > documentary done on the BBS, surely some

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Jack Bates
On 10/18/2010 11:45 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: More accurately... A /48 per customer end-site... Define end0-site. Residential customers, for example, don't need more than a /56. More would just be obscene. Most small businesses don't need more than a /56 either, especially if you are breaking

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Jonas Frey (Probe Networks)
How do you want to do that without IPv6 connectivity? :-) -Jonas Am Montag, den 18.10.2010, 18:42 +0430 schrieb Jeffrey Lyon: > Only if you're prepared for the bloody onslaught of DDoS. > > Jeff > > On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Je

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Jack Bates
On 10/18/2010 11:47 AM, Randy Carpenter wrote: Unfortunately, it is not as easy as that in practice. I recently worked with a customer that has ~60,000 customers currently. We tried to get a larger block, but were denied. ARIN said they would only issue a /32, unless immediate usage could be

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 10/18/10 9:33 AM, Tony Hain wrote: > This 'get a /32' BAD ADVICE has got to stop. There are way too many people > trying to force fit their customers into a block that is intended for a > start-up with ZERO customers. > > Develop a plan for /48 per customer, then go to ARIN and get that size >

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Tony Hain wrote: > This 'get a /32' BAD ADVICE has got to stop. There are way too many people > trying to force fit their customers into a block that is intended for a > start-up with ZERO customers. > +1 > Develop a plan for /48 per customer, then go to ARIN and ge

Re: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Randy Carpenter
Unfortunately, it is not as easy as that in practice. I recently worked with a customer that has ~60,000 customers currently. We tried to get a larger block, but were denied. ARIN said they would only issue a /32, unless immediate usage could be shown that required more than that. Their guidel

RE: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Tony Hain
Owen DeLong wrote: > ... > > It's really unfortunate that most people don't understand the > distinction. > If they did, it would help them to realize that NAT doesn't actually do > anything for security, it just helps with address conservation > (although > it has some limits there, as well). Ac

RE: Definitive Guide to IPv6 adoption

2010-10-18 Thread Tony Hain
This 'get a /32' BAD ADVICE has got to stop. There are way too many people trying to force fit their customers into a block that is intended for a start-up with ZERO customers. Develop a plan for /48 per customer, then go to ARIN and get that size block. Figure out exactly what you are going to as

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 8:47 AM, George Bonser wrote: > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Henning Brauer >> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:36 AM >> To: nanog@nanog.org >> Subject: Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA >> >> instead of working on a viable alternative that doesn't suck. >>

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Smith
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 08:18:57 -0700 Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 5:28 AM, Curtis Maurand wrote: > > > On 10/18/2010 8:16 AM, ML wrote: > >> > And +1 on the "pioneers" comment too. > >>> > >>> Paul. > >>> > >> > >> IPv6 Hipsters..Doing it before it was cool. > >> > >> > >> > >

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Tim Burke
I'm wondering how long it'll be until HE starts spamming their IPv6 service... Tim Burke (815) 556-2000 Sent from my iPhone On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:44, Jeroen Massar wrote: > APNIC just got another IPv4 /8 thus only 5 left: > > http://www.nro.net/media/remaining-ipv4-address-below-5.html > (And

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Joe Greco
> George: > > Nice answer. Do you think cloud services is based on an oversubscription mo= > del? > Where they hope those who purchase servers don't actually max them out memo= > ry/CPU wise? > > Do you also believer that cloud services should never have any downtime? To= > me=2C cloud services

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 10/18/10 8:35 AM, Henning Brauer wrote: > * Owen DeLong [2010-10-18 17:27]: >> Have you done IPv6? >> I have... It's not even difficult(), let alone really().Really().Difficult(). > > maybe not from a users standpoint (that comes later when it misbehaves > again). from an implementors (I have

Re: Enterprise DNS providers

2010-10-18 Thread seph
I haven't used UltraDNS, but given some of their unsavory sales tactics, I'm pretty biased against them. They spend awhile spamming people, and calling up CTOs. seph Jeffrey Lyon writes: > We're using Afilias now, we had nothing short of a horrendous > experience dealing with Neustar / UltraDNS

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Djamel Sadok
How does it compare to the OpenFlow design ideas? Djamel On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Matlock, Kenneth L wrote: > Because 'cloud computing' is the latest buzzword, and their marketing > department thought that by attaching that buzzword to it, that would > increase sales? :) > > Nevermind

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Smith
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 13:21:29 +0100 Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 18/10/2010 12:25, Lin Pica8 wrote: > > We are starting to distribute Pica8 Open Source Cloud Switches : > > Sounds interesting. What chipset does this run on? > > Also, what's a cloud switch? Is this a switch which forwards L2 traff

RE: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Brandon Kim
George: Nice answer. Do you think cloud services is based on an oversubscription model? Where they hope those who purchase servers don't actually max them out memory/CPU wise? Do you also believer that cloud services should never have any downtime? To me, cloud services is synonymous with redu

RE: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread George Bonser
> -Original Message- > From: Henning Brauer > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:36 AM > To: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA > > instead of working on a viable alternative that doesn't suck. > Which is certainly possible. I would say that at this point it

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Jared Mauch
On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Henning Brauer wrote: > * Owen DeLong [2010-10-18 17:27]: >> Have you done IPv6? >> I have... It's not even difficult(), let alone really().Really().Difficult(). > > maybe not from a users standpoint (that comes later when it misbehaves > again). from an implemento

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Jared Mauch
Owen, He did not display the return values of these functions. I think his IPv6 one returns FALSE; - Jared On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > > On Oct 18, 2010, at 5:28 AM, Curtis Maurand wrote: > >> On 10/18/2010 8:16 AM, ML wrote: And +1 on the "pioneers" comment too.

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Henning Brauer
* Owen DeLong [2010-10-18 17:27]: > Have you done IPv6? > I have... It's not even difficult(), let alone really().Really().Difficult(). maybe not from a users standpoint (that comes later when it misbehaves again). from an implementors (I have written a lot of kernel-side networking code and netw

Re: [Nanog] Re: 12 years ago today...

2010-10-18 Thread Jay Nugent
Greetings, On Mon, 18 Oct 2010, Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 10/18/2010 08:03 AM, Will Hargrave wrote: > > I can recommend "Where Wizards Stay Up Late" by Katie Hafner > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Where-Wizards-Stay-Up-Late/dp/06848

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
If you aren't telling your existing vendors that you need IPv6 now, you need to be. If your vendors aren't getting the message, it's well past time to take action and start looking for other vendors. Owen On Oct 18, 2010, at 6:15 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote: > I'll listen, but I need my vendors, carr

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
On Oct 18, 2010, at 5:28 AM, Curtis Maurand wrote: > On 10/18/2010 8:16 AM, ML wrote: >> > And +1 on the "pioneers" comment too. >>> >>> Paul. >>> >> >> IPv6 Hipsters..Doing it before it was cool. >> >> >> > IPV4 ->easy(); > IPV6->really().Really().Difficult(); > Have you done IPv6? I hav

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Owen DeLong
Uh that would be 12 left -- 7 general distribution and 5 reserved for the global end allocation policy. That's 5%, not 5 /8s. Owen On Oct 18, 2010, at 4:44 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote: > APNIC just got another IPv4 /8 thus only 5 left: > > http://www.nro.net/media/remaining-ipv4-address-below-

RE: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread George Bonser
> -Original Message- > From: Brandon Kim > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:58 AM > > Cc: nanog@nanog.org > Subject: RE: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch > > > Has our industry ever really fundamentally defined what is "cloud > computing"? > > Even though "MPLS" is sort of a buzzwo

Re: [Nanog] Re: 12 years ago today...

2010-10-18 Thread Jason 'XenoPhage' Frisvold
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/18/2010 08:03 AM, Will Hargrave wrote: > I can recommend "Where Wizards Stay Up Late" by Katie Hafner > > http://www.amazon.com/Where-Wizards-Stay-Up-Late/dp/0684832674 > > A really good read IMHO. An excellent read, highly recommended! Also

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Aleksi Suhonen
Hello, ML wrote: > IPv6 Hipsters..Doing it before it was cool. I'm afraid I'm still doing it before it's cool. )-; -- Aleksi Suhonen () ascii ribbon campaign /\ support plain text e-mail

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Jorge Amodio
> But cloud computing? Yes, it is distributed high performance computing on a rainy day with a 99% chance of marketing hype and a 100% chance of non interoperability between clouds ... forecast may vary in your area. -J

RE: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Brandon Kim
Has our industry ever really fundamentally defined what is "cloud computing"? Even though "MPLS" is sort of a buzzword too, we can define it, how it works, it's protocol and such... But cloud computing? > Subject: RE: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch > Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 08:26:29 -0

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Joel Jaeggli
On 10/18/10 5:16 AM, ML wrote: > > And +1 on the "pioneers" comment too. >> >> Paul. >> > > IPv6 Hipsters..Doing it before it was cool. Late to the party... The hipsters have already moved on having grown bored with their v6 deployments around 2004. > >

Re: Co-Lo and Connectivity options in Kuwait

2010-10-18 Thread Jim Mercer
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 07:34:18PM +0100, Rod Beck wrote: > Good luck. }The Middle East is generally a horror. Prices are sky high. i was generally happy with my co-lo with etisalat in Dubai. that would also provide connectivity to kuwait and other places in the region as etisalat/emix seem to b

RE: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Matlock, Kenneth L
Because 'cloud computing' is the latest buzzword, and their marketing department thought that by attaching that buzzword to it, that would increase sales? :) Nevermind that clouds contain nothing but vapor. Ken Matlock Network Analyst Exempla Healthcare (303) 467-4671 matlo...@exempla.org -

Re: Pica8 - Open Source Cloud Switch

2010-10-18 Thread Nick Hilliard
On 18/10/2010 14:27, Brandon Kim wrote: Good question Nick, what is a cloud switch? Is this like VSS in cisco where you have a virtual chassis? The vss is virtual management software for a virtual switch. This box looks like a piece of hardware that you can plug things into, so I'm just won

Re: Only 5x IPv4 /8 remaining at IANA

2010-10-18 Thread Jeffrey Lyon
Only if you're prepared for the bloody onslaught of DDoS. Jeff On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: > On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:39 AM, Jeffrey Lyon wrote: > >> My clients can't use IPv6 when my infrastructure and carriers don't support >> it. > > Smells like a business opportu

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