[mailop] Handling certificate expiration (Was: Re: Google and Spam detection)

On Mon, 7 Apr 2025, Klaus Ethgen wrote: With this Lets-Encrypt-stuff comes that the certificate needs to be replaced every 3 Months. I do not have all the time to replace them that often. FYI, it seems likely that all certificate issuers will change to short intervals as well, gradually down

Re: [mailop] Handling certificate expiration

On Mon, 7 Apr 2025, Viktor Dukhovni wrote: On Mon, Apr 07, 2025 at 12:47:33PM -0400, Bill Cole via mailop wrote: On 2025-04-07 at 09:38:56 UTC-0400 (Mon, 7 Apr 2025 06:38:56 -0700 (PDT)) Mark Milhollan via mailop is rumored to have said: Mainly it is for browsers but that would force some

Re: [mailop] Validity: "Our product team is working to remove IPV6 as option"

On Mon, 4 Nov 2024, Andy Smith wrote: Just now my NS queries for the lists used in SpamAssassin: sa-trusted.bondedsender.org sa-accredit.habeas.com bl.score.senderscore.com are all returning SERVFAIL so I can't tell if they even have any nameservers on IPv6. Obviously if all their na

Re: [mailop] SPF fragility vs. utility

On Thu, 17 Oct 2024, Louis wrote: If spammers were to use my email in the return path/envelope from with the intent on causing backscatter, the emails will be rejected at SMTP time due to SPF failure. FYI, You might not believe it but not everyone checks SPF much less at SMTP time. They may

Re: [mailop] Good registrar?

On Wed, 2 Oct 2024, Tony McCrory wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 at 11:51, Otto J. Makela via mailop wrote: Do you have recommendations for a good domain registrar which still keeps prices at a reasonable level, I would suggest Cloudflare domain registration. They have several things to recom

Re: [mailop] strange sender

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, Jeff Pang wrote: Jun 30 06:20:51 mx postfix/smtpd[1081379]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[193.37.41.106]: 550 5.7.25 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [193.37.41.106]; from= to= proto=ESMTP helo=<[193.37.41.106]> do you know what is the sender "t...@s

Re: [mailop] Set profile picture from server side for Outlook (Standalone client)

On Wed, 26 Jun 2024, Sebastian Nielsen wrote: I wonder, which header should I set to show a profile picture in Microsoft Outlook (standalone client)? As an aside: Which client, the old or the new? What works for one might not work for the other. That I know of there's nothing. I'm not sur

Re: [mailop] Strange Behavior from Microsoft IP Address

On Tue, 7 May 2024, Vitali Quiering wrote: We've identified an IP address, notably tied to Microsoft (20.203.218.75), executing thousands of hits on our URLs almost immediately after dispatching a newsletter. However, the peculiar part is the variation in the hash segments they're accessing. T

Re: [mailop] Gmail + Spamhaus "technical values and unusual sending behaviors"

On Mon, 6 May 2024, K. M. Peterson wrote: I'm going to have to put together some sort of automated reporting of when I get blacklisted, I can recommend . /mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.

[mailop] Google Postmaster Tools

On Sun, 31 Mar 2024, Odhiambo Washington wrote: Might someone know what I must do to get data showing on https://postmaster.google.com/managedomains ? I have two verified domains in there, but nothing on the (expected) dashboard. You must reach a certain volume of messages before anything will

Re: [mailop] Outgoing Spam from Microsoft IPs

[Piggybacking as I didn't see Matt's message directly] On Mon, 19 Feb 2024, Gellner, Oliver wrote: On 16.02.2024 at 03:38 Matt Palmer via mailop wrote: Although I must say that without reverse DNS would seem to be the easier blocking option -- when was the last time you saw legitimate

Re: [mailop] Is forwarding to Gmail basically dead?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Dave Crocker wrote: On 2/12/2024 4:37 PM, Mark Milhollan via mailop wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Dave Crocker wrote: 1. S/MIME has been around for 25 years. While it has gained    respectable amounts of implementation in MUAs, it has achieved use    only in specialized

Re: [mailop] Is forwarding to Gmail basically dead?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024, Dave Crocker wrote: 1. S/MIME has been around for 25 years.  While it has gained respectable amounts of implementation in MUAs, it has achieved use only in specialized environments.  Google could greatly accelerate its uptake by automatically providing every freemai

Re: [mailop] zen.spamhaus.org

On Tue, 6 Feb 2024, Odhiambo Washington wrote: On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 12:53 AM Mark Milhollan wrote: On Tue, 6 Feb 2024, Odhiambo Washington wrote: Today morning I woke up to all emails being rejected as I was using zen.spamhaus.org in my dnslists. Are you using your own resolver (like

Re: [mailop] zen.spamhaus.org

On Tue, 6 Feb 2024, Odhiambo Washington wrote: Today morning I woke up to all emails being rejected as I was using zen.spamhaus.org in my dnslists. Almost all incoming emails - even from gmail.com - were being rejected. Did I maybe miss something? Are you using your own resolver (like BIND, Kn

Re: [mailop] Contact Google Postmaster

On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Scott Mutter wrote: The 173.225.104.91 server has sent 68 emails to gmail.com email addresses thus far in January 2024. GPT will not present data for that volume. From their FAQ: "Most of the Postmaster Tools dashboards will only display data when there’s a sizable dail

Re: [mailop] Gmail blocking of good customer

On Fri, 24 Feb 2023, Rob McEwen wrote: Quite frankly, I'm constantly amazed at how often I see assumptions from so many - that assume Google is always right and the other entity is wrong - even when all the facts point to the opposite. I never said Google was "right", but if you want to deliv

Re: [mailop] Gmail blocking of good customer

On Fri, 24 Feb 2023, Christine Borgia wrote: I have a customer whose email campaign was heavily blocked yesterday by Gmail with the error: 421 4.7.0 [149.72.90.158 15] Our system has detected that this message is suspicious due to the very low reputation of the sending domain. To best protect o

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Sending DMARC Reports From IP In SBL

On Tue, 19 Jul 2022, Matt Corallo wrote: Relevant headers below, but note that its actually the very first Received header that matches SBL-CSS. You are via Spamassassin doing what Google does and I guess at least some other Spamassassin users do -- presuming to know how earlier hops should

Re: [mailop] forwarding to gmail - problem

On Thu, 28 Apr 2022, Scott Mutter wrote: configure your Gmail account to POP mail from that POP3 mailbox. This side steps the issues of SPF failing, It does not. As recently discussed, Gmail plays a game of trying to guess whether SPF should have failed on a previous hop, rather than just

Re: [mailop] gmail - pop3 retrieval checking SPF ? ( gmail, wth ? Take 2 )

On Wed, 13 Apr 2022, Paulo Pinto wrote: Why on earth is gmail checking the IP address of the message sender (ISP assigned home address, for instance) against the sender's domain SPF I've mentioned it before to which got a "I don't think we do that" when it was plain they did (their own SPF re

Re: [mailop] Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

On Sun, 10 Apr 2022, Byron Lunz wrote: I don't recall seeing any discussion in this thread about how to migrate old email messages from a Google Workspace account to a different host. Anyone have advice or suggestions on how to do that? If you use a desktop MUA likely you just add the other se

Re: [mailop] subaddresses, was Best mailbox provider for personal domain?

On Sat, 9 Apr 2022, John Levine wrote: PS: Gmail allows general plus addresses, Yahoo allows a limited number, can't think of any other significant commercial mail system that allows either. Apart from whether they are significant I've found many others provide plus addressing / subaddresses,

Re: [mailop] What am I supposed to do with abuse complaints on legit mail?

It is too bad if you or your user feels the message was legit but reported as junk, spam or unwanted, whether directly or indirectly, whether mistaken or not -- even messages that "need" to be delivered might get you blocked. PSA: You should authenticate bounces, feedback reports and even SMTP

Re: [mailop] How to detect fraud login in POP IMAP or SMTP?

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021, Michael Peddemors wrote: Use RATS-AUTH to block auth attacks, from known dedicated IP(s) ;) I've tried this, so far it has blocked 7 of 4933 AUTH attempts since I began using it. Block AUTH from Amazon/Gcloud/Azure by default Would you include other clouds, like Alib

Re: [mailop] Gmail putting messages to spam

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021, Ken O'Driscoll wrote: 2. Your sending domain (rafa.eu.org) is a sub-domain of a pseudo-TLD which a) gives sub-domains away for free, and b) has an overly permissive SPF policy ("v=spf1 +all"). The reputation of your sub-domain is going to be influenced by the reputations

Re: [mailop] SNDS At Work

On Tue, 7 Sep 2021, Mike Hammett wrote: I now manage another ISP with another set of e-mail servers I went to sign up for SNDS with my work e-mail. I don't want to use my existing account because I want some amount of separation of duties. What are the rest of you doing in these kinds o

Re: [mailop] I disabled Spamhaus checking due to false-positives

On Thu, 15 Jul 2021, Bastian Blank wrote: Did you check the result of those RBL requests? Spamhaus also provides specific codes for errors, so you _must_ explicitely list what codes you want to accept. See https://www.spamhaus.org/faq/section/DNSBL%20Usage#200 what those mean. I've been cons

Re: [mailop] I disabled Spamhaus checking due to false-positives

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021, Al Iverson wrote: is it bad vibes to query Spamhaus directly against a.gns.spamhaus.org - e.gns.spamhaus.org? Those are the servers that would normally be queried, in that they are the listed NS for the DBL, PBL, SBL, XBL, SBL-XBL and ZEN zones. /mark _

[mailop] I disabled Spamhaus checking due to false-positives

Spamhaus has been working fine for me and has been a wonderful resource for many years, but I recently decided I had to disable using them on my personal, low volume mail server because of a few recent surprises (that's right, I don't look at Spamhaus rejects, timestamps are UTC): Jul 10 22:

Re: [mailop] Gmail's MTA is broken

On Sun, 6 Jun 2021, Larry M. Smith wrote: Seems that gmail.com's MTA can't properly speak SMTP. I've been seeing re-queuing and re-sending of permanent failures for some time now, Delivery incomplete There was a temporary problem delivering your message to [redacted]. Gmail will retry for 47

Re: [mailop] Ooo.. That's an ugly email header..

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Michael Peddemors wrote: can any one guess why they need THAT much data in the email header? It seems that those that add giant or lots of headers are doing so for future analysis purposes where logs are not kept or may have expired by the time an investigation might beg

Re: [mailop] Hotmail and block on OVH: possible solutions alternatives?

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021, Michael Peddemors wrote: Also, speaking of whois, pet peeve that some of the whois databases never seem to be updated/cleaned up. And some of the biggest don't publish anything. whois 51.79.55.200 Still thinks RIPE is responsible.. Your whois program thinks that -- n

Re: [mailop] RFCs on quoted pairs in From:?

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021, Paul Smith wrote: From: "Joe " Subject: test and Thunderbird tries to reply to b...@example.com. That is totally wrong! It's a bug and needs reporting. At a guess, it is a mistaken attempt to work around a rewritten From header (e.g., for SPF reasons) but no Reply-To h

Re: [mailop] t-online.de refuses to remove an ip from their blacklist

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020, Benoît Panizzon wrote: AFAIK only one PTR per RR is allowed, Incorrect. Whether others will process them in a way you want might be the larger concern. /mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal

Re: [mailop] Anyone have any luck delisting from Microsoft's Advanced Threat Protection (ATP)?

On Wed, 13 May 2020, Alex Burch wrote: we tried going this route - we went through paid support in our Office/Microsoft365 account (Business Premium) and these tickets have not been resolved. Is there no way to ask for or demand escalation? Or by "not resolved" do you mean "as we wished/need

Re: [mailop] Sendgrid strikes again; zendesk, actually

On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, Paul Smith wrote: ## In replies all text above this line is added to the ticket ## Your Twilio Ticket ID # 3806345 Encoded ID # [Q54RWY-VROX] Your Ticketing System's ID # (if we have recorded one): - This email is a service from SendGrid

Re: [mailop] sendgrid sending spam claiming to be chase.com

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019, Carl Byington wrote: The spam was sent with a From: header of @email.chase.com. _dmarc.email.chase.com. has a txt record with p=reject, so it was rejected here. Sendgrid - you should be able to check that at your end, and just not send anything that violates the dmarc restri

Re: [mailop] Gmail doesn't like my IPv6 address, why?

On Wednesday 2019-12-18 12:18, Brian wrote: For what I can see on my logs, Gmail seem to prefer v6 when delivering emails to my server, but for some reason when my server uses v6 to deliver emails their milters mark them as spam (except of course when I send test emails to my 15 years old person

Re: [mailop] BIMI

On Tuesday 2019-12-10 17:32, John R Levine wrote: I sadly realize that I am the last person in the world using Alpine. Not quite, but indeed not a large crowd. /mark ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mai

Re: [mailop] Issue with Mailop 'From' header

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019, Andy Smith wrote: On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 12:09:10PM -0600, Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop wrote: Something has changed in the past several weeks so that email from Mailop now comes: From: ..making triage, etc., of reading Mailop mail more onerous now, I don't

Re: [mailop] Outlook/Hotmail reporting to us that a mail has been declared as SPAM by a recpient, but... ?

On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, Sébastien Riccio wrote: We've seen this a few times. We've come to the conclusion that it's either anti-spam software on the local computer that is automatically moving the email into the user's spam folder (and thus marking it as spam), For example Thunderbird defaults

Re: [mailop] Are there any de facto standards around no-reply@ addresses?

On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Grant Taylor wrote: Are there any standards around no-reply type addresses? The back story in this case involved two such systems that were naively replying to each others no-reply address. Automation trying to be "helpful"? Damned if you do and damned if you don't, a

Re: [mailop] Google to the WCP?

Google inspects Received headers and checks SPF for each ignoring those showing an RFC-1918 address, any of which failing means a pretty good chance the message will be given the SPAM tag, i.e., SPF is checked not just for the connected peer. So a message originated at 192.168.1.101 and relaye

Re: [mailop] Any t-online.de admins here?

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019, Eike Armbrust wrote: >I'm not sure what you mean. Of course my users do have IMAP. I.e., have them configure their T-Online account to pickup messages from you via IMAP. That doesn't always help/work though. If they forwarded SPAM to other than themselves (e.g., a friend)

Re: [mailop] Expires SSL cert for mailop

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018, Doug Barton wrote: >In the age of Let's Encrypt expired TLS certs are a really bad look. Let's Encrypt changes little, processes can break whether they are yearly, bi-yearly or monthly. Granted you'd think there would be monitoring and then reasonably quick restoration.

Re: [mailop] Anyone else seeing EOP/O365 unable to connect when delivering?

[mildly rearranged] On Wed, 3 Oct 2018, Ryan Krueger wrote: >The behavior is that EOP/O365 servers get a connection refused error >when connecting to our servers. The error is "450 4.4.316 Connection >refused [Message=Socket error code 10061]...". >One of our customer's business partner has o

Re: [mailop] How to find 'low flying' spamers?

On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, Rob McEwen wrote: >On 10/1/2018 5:23 AM, Benoit Panizzon wrote: >> * Require SMTP Authentication. So much is now via stolen credentials (which your other checks try to handle) that this does nothing to prevent, of course, but it is indeed reasonable and responsible of you to

Re: [mailop] Weird Gmail deliverability issue - mail message not there

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018, Vytis Mar?iulionis wrote: > relay=aspmx.l.google.com[64.233.163.27]:25, delay=1.2, > delays=0.13/0/0.51/0.6, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK > 1537051207 z2-v6si12644415ljb.127 - gsmtp) > >The only probable idea I come up with is that we have gotten rid of 7 >domains use

Re: [mailop] Orange.fr and Wanadoo.fr Hardbounces

On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, David Hofstee wrote: >- You send to e.g. a 1000 recipients one week. These recipients download >images and click on links (e.g. 40% open rate and 5% click rate). >Conclusion: Recipients are real and active. >- The next week *all* these recipients suddenly bounce Unless Orange

Re: [mailop] question regarding support for international characters

And yet Google (and Microsoft and many others) do seem to assume that if the headers are badly formatted (in various ways) it needs rejection or adds to the score tending towards classification as SPAM. The body is a different mess, indeed, and one where a more relaxed scanner seems to be used

Re: [mailop] question regarding support for international characters

But that's the From: comment and Subject: text where they're expected and already have a way to provide for encoded UTF-8 (or whatever), where SMTPUTF8 means we will likely begin seeing raw UTF-8 in the From: mailbox name, and anywhere in Received: and other headers. This will make MUAs and thu

Re: [mailop] Reg. Instant delivery within sec. for OTP based mailer

On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Vaibhav wrote: >At Gmail we are able to deliver 70% emails less than 2sec where we expect >all emails to get deliver within 1 OR 2 sec. Does TLS encryption slow down >the delivery ? E-mail isn't instant messaging -- don't expect instant delivery. Yes of course TLS slows thi

Re: [mailop] GSuites looking too closely at first-hop Received: headers?

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018, Philip Paeps wrote: >I have no way of knowing if GSuites is actually looking too closely at my >first-hop Received: headers but that's the only theory I can come up with for >my emails not arriving on that GSuites list. Probably. I postulate that since they hide the sender's

Re: [mailop] Office 365 - Emails marked as not passing fraud detection

On Fri, 24 Nov 2017, Shane Clay wrote: >I can't figure this one out so looking for some help from people in the >know. One of our clients has a postfix mail relay server used for >relaying emails from photocopiers/internal software systems out to the >world. >Any ideas? I don't know, but can'

Re: [mailop] Timeouts on "." sending to nic.ru

On Tue, 14 Nov 2017, Brandon Long wrote: >On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:58 AM Renaud Allard via mailop >wrote: >>Actually, it's way more than that: >> Initial 220 Message: 5 Minutes >> MAIL Command: 5 Minutes >> RCPT Command: 5 Minutes >> DATA Initiation: 2 Minutes >> Data Block: 3 Minutes. This is

Re: [mailop] Concurrent Messages and Proper Time to Keep a Connection Open

On Mon, 31 Jul 2017, Ryan Harris wrote: >Naturally we don't want to cause unrest within the ecosphere by keeping >connections open for too long. Have you looked at the related RFCs? (2821 and 1123 primarily but et seq) >>It would seem kind of pointless to keep a connection open for 10 >>minu

Re: [mailop] New gmail warning about spoofing

On Wed, 14 Jun 2017, Stefano Bagnara wrote: >PS: maybe this list is used to "complaints" and "how to get a contact at a >given provider", so I don't know if this generic discussion about Google >approach to user spam/spoofing warnings is an interesting/appropriate topic. Your thread seems to me t

[mailop] Come on protection.outlook.com, don't send me messages even you think are SPAM

We periodically receive SPAM from outbound.protection.outlook.com hosts. No worry, they can slip through anyone's filters. But some have an X-Forefront-Antispam-Report header with SFV:SPM which has been said is their indicator of a message they consider to be SPAM. How MS handles them is up

Re: [mailop] Confused by bounce

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016, Terry Barnum wrote: >If we send email to a specific gmail user we receive a bounce from Hotmail >saying it can't deliver due to our DMARC policy. Postfix logs show the email >being delivered and accepted by gmail. Email to other gmail users goes through >fine. If you get a

Re: [mailop] hosting.com mailservices failing on greylisting?

On Fri, 21 Oct 2016, Benoit Panizzon wrote: >We had complaints about delivery issues from hosting.com. > >After looking at the logs, it's obvious what goes wrong: [greylisting with a 10 minute wait/backoff period] >The problem is that all attempts are made before the 10min threshold >would accep

Re: [mailop] Issues Receiving from MSN/Hotmail

On Thu, 1 Sep 2016, Dave Brockman wrote: >There is an encoded text attachment named >details.txt, I'm not sure what to do with that. Really? A text attachment should be something that every MUA still alive can handle, even if it is encoded using Base64. >Has anyone experienced anything simil

Re: [mailop] Your subscription is not allowed because the email address you gave is insecure?

On Sat, 27 Aug 2016, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: >- Original Message - >> From: "Steve Atkins" >>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 2:11 PM, John Levine wrote: >>> Valdis Kletnieks, an old nerd at Virginia Tech, tells me he just tried >>> to subscribe to mailop and it said "the email address you gave is >

Re: [mailop] Gmail SRS Problem: low reputation of sending domain

On Fri, 12 Aug 2016, Benoit Panizzon wrote: >Our Email Services implement SRS to forward emails from SPF protected >domains. >Unfortunately [...] spam and exam...@eblcom.ch has choosen to have >spam emails tagged in the subject and delivered. Mainly you shouldn't use SRS, but if you keep using i

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Junk Mail Reporting Program

On Wed, 27 Jul 2016, Craig Marchant wrote: >That's an issue we have also, where customers set up forwarders on the >cPanel "account / service" and then forward it off to hotmail as an example. I'd love a way to disable that ability whenever the destination is a service known to have the ability

Re: [mailop] Microsoft Junk Mail Reporting Program

On Wed, 27 Jul 2016, Craig Marchant wrote: >I've got no issue with people reporting spam - it just seems like that >"this is spam" button makes it a little too easy for end users to take >absolutely zero responsibility for legitimate mailing list subscriptions >and in the process getting other leg

Re: [mailop] Mail accepted by outlook.com/hotmail.com disappears.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016, Michael Wise wrote: >And yes, under certain circumstances, Hotmail/Outlook will [...] delete >[...] with no NDR. The issue will be highlighted in the SNDS report, >however. Any idea what that looks like? Are those the ones to be found in the blocked table on the ipStatus.

Re: [mailop] Microsoft/GMail MX Priority Issues.

On Sun, 21 Feb 2016, Adrian Neale (iComms) wrote: >The 3rd priority MX record is in the event of an outage, That's your intent, but that isn't how it usually works, much as having a tertiary/backup DNS provider that is only used in the event of outages -- you must expect all MX (and NS) server