Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

>Yes - ISPs are immune unless they are deliberately doing things that >would be in the class of "unfair competition" to drive other companies >out of business. You might want to look up a company called "Holomaxx". They sued Yahoo and Google under that theory and lost, badly. Threatening to su

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

There's magic sauce to try and split hairs, and it's not perfect. Brandon On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Franck Martin > wrote: > > or Google... > > > > Guess what, Google allows their DMARC'ed domain to send to GMail users > via 3rd part

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Franck Martin wrote: > or Google... > Guess what, Google allows their DMARC'ed domain to send to GMail users via 3rd party systems (i.e. mailop), so I do get Brandon's emails to various lists. It's odd, from my perspective, to say the least. :-) -Jim P. ___

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Laura Atkins wrote: > >> On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Brandon Long wrote: >>> In general, I'd be surprised if we spam folder mailop, though given it's a >>> mailing list and several of the participants have

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Brandon Long wrote: >> In general, I'd be surprised if we spam folder mailop, though given it's a >> mailing list and several of the participants have dmarc p=reject or >> p=quaruntine enabled and the list is

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

or Google... https://dmarcian.com/dmarc-inspector/google.com On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Brandon Long wrote: > > In general, I'd be surprised if we spam folder mailop, though given it's > a > > mailing list and several of the participa

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 4:21 PM, Brandon Long wrote: > In general, I'd be surprised if we spam folder mailop, though given it's a > mailing list and several of the participants have dmarc p=reject or > p=quaruntine enabled and the list isn't set up to handle that, not really > surprised. > > Brando

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

In general, I'd be surprised if we spam folder mailop, though given it's a mailing list and several of the participants have dmarc p=reject or p=quaruntine enabled and the list isn't set up to handle that, not really surprised. Brandon On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 1:10 PM, Franck Martin wrote: > > On

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Mike Reed wrote: > Hi, > > Gmail filters mailop list items into the spam folder fairly often (at > least for me)... any service that has some filtering.. and all of them > must.. will make mistakes sometimes. > > Create a filter in gmail and select "Never send it

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Yeah--I was wondering about that too. I have "exercised" my 5th amendment right on several occasions and have never been arrested for doing so. Not to get even more off-topic but in the state of Oregon, there are only 3 things an officer *MUST* absolutely arrest you for (i.e. he/she has no discret

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

On 09/03/15 11:09, Michael Wise wrote: Can your filter handle billions of pieces of email a day, across tens of thousands of servers? It could scale to handle it. And would your sanity survive the Microsoft Development process for such services? No - not a chance. :) The last one is

Re: [mailop] Introductions and white listing

Thanks for that Gil, most weeks are good weeks but in August I had a number of screwups. Very unusual though. I didn't know about that stats page. Very interesting. I try hard to get it right. On 09/03/15 11:07, Gil Bahat wrote: Welcome to the list Marc, I'll vouch for Marc on being a long

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Well, it wouldn't be any worse than the responses I've got from Microsoft so far. On 09/03/15 11:05, Michael Wise wrote: You need to understand perfectly .. that it doesn't matter. It's like asking to speak to a lawyer when you are being "Questioned" by the Police... it means an automatic arr

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Hi, Gmail filters mailop list items into the spam folder fairly often (at least for me)... any service that has some filtering.. and all of them must.. will make mistakes sometimes. Kind regards, Mike On 3 September 2015 at 19:01, Luke Martinez wrote: > A while back I told a representative th

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

>> Are those complaints or are they DMARC notices? > > complaints, en mass, by a n00b who just returned from vacation and > decided to expeditiously clear out his inbox. :-) He subscribed to > a list on 07-Aug using an outlook.com addr, and again on 27-Aug using > a @yahoo.com addr from a Comc

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Laura Atkins wrote: >> >> I'm seeing it for confirmed-opt-in list subscribers using >> hotmail/live/outlook addrs. >> >> And the beauty is I'm getting mailbombed by MS about 1918 addrs: >> >>From: st...@hotmail.com >>To: postmas...@domainmail.org >>Subje

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Brian Curry wrote: > > Agreed that legal action seems a bit extreme. I am taking the approach that > Microsoft/Hotmail saw something that said spam was being sent and we need to > work to correct this. > > I am taking an aggressive approach with the IP to pull

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Perhaps they are suggesting that the process itself needs improvement, rather than the immediate problem being solved up until the next one. my personal experience has been somewhat of a toss: At times I have been able to escalate a noticeable problem to qualified engineers (which happen to be fam

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Gil Bahat wrote: > > This looks like the format for FBL complaints and not DMARC complaints. Note > the IP however is in the private use 10.0.0.0/8 block, > which means something is not correct with the setup. Something is definitely broken,

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

This looks like the format for FBL complaints and not DMARC complaints. Note the IP however is in the private use 10.0.0.0/8 block, which means something is not correct with the setup. when you get an FBL complaint, you also get a redacted copy of the email. can you trace back and see if these are

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Why do people always redact the critical details? I keep looking up xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx in the tools, and it keeps telling me I’ve made an error. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." | Got the Junk Mail Reporting Tool

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Agreed that legal action seems a bit extreme. I am taking the approach that Microsoft/Hotmail saw something that said spam was being sent and we need to work to correct this. I am taking an aggressive approach with the IP to pull way back and the recipients that are being sent and monitoring SN

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

I wish I had an error message other than the regular/occasional 550 mailbox unavailable. I do have one gun that has a wisp of smoke to it: when analyzing FBL complaints, an overwhelmingly large amount of them (~70% ballpark or so I believe) are ex post factum FBL complaints coming in bulk: a given

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Can your filter handle billions of pieces of email a day, across tens of thousands of servers? And would your sanity survive the Microsoft Development process for such services? The last one is probably the bigger issue, trust me on this. To answer your question, you probably already have the a

Re: [mailop] Introductions and white listing

Welcome to the list Marc, I'll vouch for Marc on being a long time in the filtering business and being very reasonable to deal with. For some things, I guess numbers can speak better than words so I offer these two links: https://www.intra2net.com/en/support/antispam/blacklist.php_dnsbl=RCVD_IN_J

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 8:05 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Marc Perkel > wrote: >> Hi Brian, >> >> I'm having problem with Microsoft too. It's just plain weird. Sometimes it >> takes 6 hours to deliver an email. And I can't quite understand what is >> happening. 6

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

A while back I told a representative that our new suggestion for senders dealing with unwarranted filtering is to tell their recipients to migrate to gmail or yahoo mailboxes. It actually got the ticket escalated and the filtering resolved. It felt incredibly childish. But the truth is, if non-tran

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

You need to understand perfectly .. that it doesn't matter. It's like asking to speak to a lawyer when you are being "Questioned" by the Police... it means an automatic arrest. Aloha, Michael. -- Michael J Wise | Microsoft | Spam Analysis | "Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed." | Got the Ju

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

If someone can send me actual error messages, along with the IP address from which you are sending, we'll see what we can do. Anne Anne P. Mitchell, Attorney at Law CEO/President ISIPP SuretyMail Email Reputation, Accreditation & Certification Your mail system + SuretyMail accreditation = delive

[mailop] Introductions and white listing

I suppose I should introduce myself as I'm new to the list. I'm Marc Perkel. My service is Junk Email Filter. The name says it all. We do front end spam filtering, outbound spam filtering, and email hosting. Glad to be part of this list. Thanks for including me. And - assuming people on this

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get their attention and fix their problem? I'd be happy to replace their lame spam filtering with mine. :) On 09/03/15 10:37, Michael Wise wrote: When you get LCA involved, or even mention them, things grind to a complete halt. Aloha, Michael. --

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

Well, the likelihood of me actually doing this is low. I'm mostly just venting frustration. :( -- Marc Perkel - Sales/Support supp...@junkemailfilter.com http://www.junkemailfilter.com Junk Email Filter dot com 415-992-3400 ___ mailop mailing list m

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

When you get LCA involved, or even mention them, things grind to a complete halt. Aloha, Michael. -- Sent from my Windows Phone From: Marc Perkel Sent: ‎9/‎3/‎2015 10:25 AM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

On 3 September 2015 at 18:21, Marc Perkel wrote: > I've had some luck before doing extreme things to get their attention. And > keep in mind this suggestion is aimed to get their attention. > > Lawyers for big corps are generally smart and if someone points out to them > an issue they can often de

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft/Outlook - getting their attention

I've had some luck before doing extreme things to get their attention. And keep in mind this suggestion is aimed to get their attention. Lawyers for big corps are generally smart and if someone points out to them an issue they can often deal with it before it becomes a lawsuit. Same it true of

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

That might not be the smartest tactic.. :) * Do you want to be on their radar? They have deep pockets.. * Email operators and end users have protected rights, they can choose to accept/deny based on almost any principle (eg, We don't accept emails from people who's name starts with the letter

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

> And as someone who's job it is to stop spam, do you really want a lawsuit to > find that a mail service has to accept mail from someone else? Not to mention that Federal law specifically exempts ISPs from any liability for acceptance/delivery decisions they make. Federal law specifically sta

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

Has that ever worked for you before? In general, I think people shut down at the threat of a lawsuit, it puts everyone on extreme notice. And as someone who's job it to stop spam, do you really want a lawsuit to find that a mail service has to accept mail from someone else? Brandon On Thu, Sep

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

I watch our SNDS, SRD, and complaint data like a hawk and there's no ryhme or reason I've found to match that data to blocks/things going to spam. Things can be great data wise and there's issues and vice versa. The only thing I've found to help is regularly trimming inactive. That does have a noti

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

I'm thinking about writing Microsoft's legal department a letter threatening a lawsuit with the hope that their lawyers will get the attention of their tech staff and do something about this. Very very frustrating. On 09/03/15 08:05, Jim Popovitch wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Marc

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Marc Perkel wrote: > Hi Brian, > > I'm having problem with Microsoft too. It's just plain weird. Sometimes it > takes 6 hours to deliver an email. And I can't quite understand what is > happening. > > I'm in the front end spam filtering business. Email comes to me

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

Microsoft is also an engagement outlier for us compared to other major providers, for the same traffic. We have not finished investigation into the matter yet but I am really interested in your results / resolution. On Sep 3, 2015 5:29 PM, "Brian Curry" wrote: > Is anyone from Microsoft/Hotmail a

Re: [mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

Hi Brian, I'm having problem with Microsoft too. It's just plain weird. Sometimes it takes 6 hours to deliver an email. And I can't quite understand what is happening. I'm in the front end spam filtering business. Email comes to me - I clean it - and then forward it on to the recipient's ser

[mailop] Hotmail/Microsoft Contact Available?

Is anyone from Microsoft/Hotmail able to help me with a delivery issue that has been lingering for months? Long story short, I have been going in loops with the normal Hotmail support process for months and cannot seem to get a useful answer. IP address in question has pulled way back on engage