Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> [...] a possible future change could be, say, > > \include "arabic.ly" > \language "arabic-hel" > > but I don't see much benefit for that. Hmm, probably it *is* the way to go – this is exactly what is done in `makam.ly` and `turkish-makam.ly`. Too bad that `makam.ly` is essentially undoc

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> Now, obviously renaming it will break scores, [...] It won't. Such a renaming could be done easily with `convert-ly`. I just don't see a reason for doing that – and especially, I don't see a alternative name for `hel-arabic.ly` that is really superior. Werner

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> The same holds for Arabic: As described in the documentation changes > of MR !1783 you should say > > \include "arabic.ly" > > if you want Italian-based note names for inputting Arabic music, and > > \include "hel-arabic.ly" > > if you want English-based note names with customized, Ital

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> But what is the point of this high-level interface? Surely, > arabic.ly should be the obvious entry point. It's similar to note name language support in LilyPond: We don't say \include "language.ly" Instead, we rather have \include "deutsch.ly" or \include "italiano.ly" The same ho

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On 2023-01-13 1:44 am, Werner LEMBERG wrote: it seems like we could easily find a better name for this file, more descriptive of its purpose and less related to the original author. While this might be true, I don't think there is a pressing reason to change the name of a high-level interface j

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 10:44 AM Werner LEMBERG wrote: > `hel-arabic.ly` exists since more > than five years, and nobody has ever complained about the name, as far > as I can remember. > Well yes. but. Out of the users of that file, how many a) would have noticed, b) would be aware of our naming

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> it seems like we could easily find a better name for this file, more > descriptive of its purpose and less related to the original author. While this might be true, I don't think there is a pressing reason to change the name of a high-level interface just because three letters of the name refe

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 10:11 AM Aaron Hill wrote: > I have no idea what "hel" is supposed to be referring to > If I remember right, in a previous post Hassan had indicated "hel" to be a shorthand for his name _H_assan _El_ Fatihi. FWIW, I would have found it more natural to shorten the name as

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello I just answered the questions I have no problem with including arabic.ly in hel-arabic.ly. For me the subject can be closed Best regard Hassan EL FATIHI

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hassan, > Question: Should all key signatures for the various maqams simply go > only into arabic.ly ? > Answer: All key signatures for the various maqams simply go only > into hel-arabic.ly (if not modified, as recently proposed) You are missing the point. Whether the signat

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On 2023-01-13 12:23 am, Luca Fascione wrote: Hassan, it would help us enormously if you could share with us the reasoning behind these choices. For example, you stated "All key signatures for maqams go in hel-arabic.ly": could you explain to us why this is the better place for them, compared

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hassan, it would help us enormously if you could share with us the reasoning behind these choices. For example, you stated "All key signatures for maqams go in hel-arabic.ly": could you explain to us why this is the better place for them, compared to arabic.ly? This will provide some intuition to a

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello Answers to questions Question : while hel-arabic.ly has this line that includes arabic.ly , what are they getting out of this? Some more key signatures and keyAlterationOrder? answer: normally hel-arabic.ly doesn't need arabic.ly (if not modified, as recently proposed) Question: Shou

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> Could someone clarify: while hel-arabic.ly has this line that > includes arabic.ly , what are they getting out of this? Some more > key signatures and keyAlterationOrder? >From MR 1783: The file @file{arabic.ly} sets the note language to Italian (or Solfege), since that is the modern stan

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Could someone clarify: while hel-arabic.ly has this line that includes arabic.ly , what are they getting out of this? Some more key signatures and keyAlterationOrder? Should all key signatures for the various maqams simply go only into arabic.ly ? Adam On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 4:11 AM Mats Bengts

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello I am okay Thank you for your sense of dialogue Hassan EL FATIHI

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Please note that the proposed new version of hel-arabic.ly internally contain a line that includes arabic.ly, which means that the end user only has to do \include "hel-arabic.ly" just as before. Hopefully this resolves your concern.    /Mats On 2023-01-11 16:02, Werner LEMBERG wrote: The

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> The other modifications are useless, they simply make hel-arabic > dependent on arabic.ly. But hel-arabic.ly is supposed to be an > independent file from other ly files. This doesn't make sense. `hel-arabic.ly` is part of the LilyPond core files. If someone uses a recent version of LilyPon

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello Al the proposed changes are not justified. Until now hel-arabic is a standalone file. except élimination of 7/2 and 5/2 The other modifications are useless The other modifications are useless, they simply make hel-arabic dependent on arabic.ly. But hel-arabic.ly is supposed to be an

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hassan: Even if self sufficient was a good goal (sometimes it is, some times it isn't) it should be achieved by inclusion of other content, in this case probably arabic.ly, so that fixes only need to happen in one place. The objection here is to the duplication of the code, not to the functionality

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello 5/2 and 7/2 are not being used, You can delete them. Removing nakriz, farahfaza, nawaatar, kurd, is not a good idea The file hel-arabic.ly is complete and self-sufficient best regard Hassan EL FATIHI

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hi, Ok, just to be sure: If 5/2 and 7/2 are not being used, means we can delete it? Best regards, Amir Czwink Am Dienstag, dem 10.01.2023 um 09:37 +0100 schrieb hassan.elfat...@free.fr: > Hello > First of all, I don't have a problem with English, it's just not my > childhood language. > I didn't

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello First of all, I don't have a problem with English, it's just not my childhood language. I didn't say keep 5/2 and 7/2 alterations. 5/2 and 7/2 are practically not used in Arabic music. Before the changes you suggest, the hel-arabic.ly file was complete, and it doesn't need another file to

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello, if you have problems with English maybe try DeepL translater, it's pretty good: https://www.deepl.com/translator Anyways @Adam Good, thanks for your offering. You can find the merge request here: https://gitlab.com/lilypond/lilypond/-/merge_requests/1783 @Hassan EL FATIHI I'm not "changin

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello I believe you are changing everything ,if I understood correctly. it was necessary to delete 7/2 and 5/2 and we are tempted to compare arablic.ly and hel-arabic.ly which aren't the same. I absolutely do not agree all your modifications but do what you want. To say for example that nahawand i

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> I'm around (Adam Good) and though I worked on the turkish-makam.ly file and > Turkish makam is most my specialty, I'd be happy to look at any ly file you > may be working on currently and give my thoughts or thumbs up. Great! Please have a look at Amir's merge request. https://gitlab.com/l

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Amir, I'm a little late to this thread but thought I'd chime in since Karlin High mentioned my name. I'm around (Adam Good) and though I worked on the turkish-makam.ly file and Turkish makam is most my specialty, I'd be happy to look at any ly file you may be working on currently and give my thoug

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello You are right in practice 7/2 tone is not used. You can delete. I personally don't use it. Here are the files I modified in 2017 : lily-library.scm and define-note-names.scm The hel-arabic.ly file must be modified => You must remove: (5/2 . "accidentals.sharp.slashslashslash.stemste

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello Hassan, Hello I am hassan EL FATIHI author of hel-arabic.ly, if you have questions or changes to propose I am at your disposal. I have been practicing Arabic music for more than thirty years, in addition I am a computer scientist which pushed me to program hel-arabic.ly What's most surpr

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello Don't remove 7/2 , and don't replace it with 7/4, It is nonsense why you want to delete 7/2 , I don't understand Best regard Hassan EL FATIHI

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Le 02/01/2023 à 15:38, hassan.elfat...@free.fr a écrit : Hello 7/2 tone exists on the other hand I made a mistake: 7/2 tone is not equivalent to 1 tone + 3/4 tone but is equivalent to 3 tones + 1/2 tone. Since 7/2 tone is rarely used, this part can be deleted. (cshb . ,(ly:ma

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Amir Czwink writes: > Thanks for your responses. > > First and foremost: I'm not trying to accuse or hold someone > accountable. I'm trying to understand (and idealistically improve) the > process. [...] > But I wonder, how the process will work then? Every one simply commits > what he thinks i

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On 1/2/2023 10:25 AM, Amir Czwink wrote: But I wonder, how the process will work then? Every one simply commits what he thinks is best and we regularly overwrite each others contributions? LilyPond's process for contributions is documented here, in the Contributor's Guide:

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Le 02/01/2023 à 17:25, Amir Czwink a écrit : But come on, you don't need to be experts to discover code duplication. Even if you're not familiar with Arabic music, the same blocks of code in a single file from a single contribution can possibly be spotted and it should be in your best interest to

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

> But come on, you don't need to be experts to discover code > duplication. [...] Right now, you are only ranting. This doesn't help anybody. Please provide a patch or series of patches (ideally, as an Merge Request) that we can discuss further. Everyhing else is pointless, as far as I can s

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Thanks for your responses. First and foremost: I'm not trying to accuse or hold someone accountable. I'm trying to understand (and idealistically improve) the process. Okay, maybe my expectations were a bit too high considering the need of comparing a contribution against the documentation in a m

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello Hassan, Please keep the list in CC so that everyone can participate, as developing LilyPond is a collective effort. Le 01/01/2023 à 18:49, hassan.elfat...@free.fr a écrit : Hello 7/2 tone is equivalent to 1 tone + 3/4 tone , In absolute terms it can be used but it is rare. How it causes

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello, Please always keep the list in CC. Le 31/12/2022 à 18:06, hassan.elfat...@free.fr a écrit : Hello /hel-arabic.ly use a notation I created myself: / /bb the second b means flat / /bd  d: means sharp #/ /adb: db means half flat (1/2 flat)/ /add: dd means half sharp (1/2 #)/ /Arabic music i

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Le 30/12/2022 à 16:50, hassan.elfat...@free.fr a écrit : Hello I am hassan EL FATIHI author of hel-arabic.ly, if you have questions or changes to propose I am at your disposal. I have a few questions: - Where does the note name language used by hel-arabic.ly originate (English note names wit

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Hello I am hassan EL FATIHI author of hel-arabic.ly, if you have questions or changes to propose I am at your disposal. I have been practicing Arabic music for more than thirty years, in addition I am a computer scientist which pushed me to program hel-arabic.ly Best regard

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Le 28/12/2022 à 23:09, Werner LEMBERG a écrit : Exactly. We are *not* experts for music from Arabia/Turkey/Iran. We take what we get. It was our mistake then to not asking you or other guys for for an expert opinion – this time I've directly contacted Hassan for comments on your MR (hopefully

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On 12/28/2022 4:09 PM, Werner LEMBERG wrote: asking you or others Who else do we have? Hans Åberg? Adam Good? Graham Breed? I lose track of their alignments with Turkish vs Persian vs Arabic music. -- Karlin High Missouri, USA

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

>> new contributions with (I'm sorry but thats the truth) bad quality >> over proven ones, that have been existing since 2008 at least, have >> been included into lilypond without questioning its purpose > > (1) Take the specialist's proposal at face value, beyond obvious and > immediate problems

Re: The hel-arabic.ly file story...

On 12/28/2022 10:17 AM, Amir Czwink wrote: new contributions with (I'm sorry but thats the truth) bad quality over proven ones, that have been existing since 2008 at least, have been included into lilypond without questioning its purpose Producing sheet music for music traditions outside of Lil

The hel-arabic.ly file story...

Dear lilypond developers, Dear Mr. Hassan El Fatihi, I am the developer that made the last major contributions to ly/arabic.ly and I am using lilypond very frequently and can say that I am a big fan of it. Sadly, I've recently found out that arabic.ly apparently is not the favourable way for writi