Re: [PHP-DEV] Introduction

Hi Tobias 2016-11-18 15:04 GMT+01:00 Tobias Nyholm : > Hey. > I’m nyholm. > I want to update the Google Summer of code page on the wiki to be more > accurate. > https://wiki.php.net/gsoc Sadly we have not had anyone active to organize the GSoC for quite some years now. You should do a full introd

[PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

"Nikita Popov" wrote in message news:CAF+90c8Wox0wadAVPsP83er=g9jbw__26ybwofasjb09ryv...@mail.gmail.com... Hi internals! I've submitted this RFC for PHP 7.1 previously, but didn't follow through due to time constraints. Now I'd like to propose an extended version for PHP 7.2 and vote on it soo

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

On Nov 19, 2016 11:34 AM, "Joe Watkins" wrote: > > Morning Pierre, > > Sorry, but yes. > > http://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting > > > There'd be a minimum of 2 weeks between when an RFC that touches the language is brought up on this list and when it's voted on is required. Other RFCs might use a smalle

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

On 19 November 2016 at 10:45, Pierre Joye wrote: > On Nov 19, 2016 11:34 AM, "Joe Watkins" wrote: > > > > Morning Pierre, > > > > Sorry, but yes. > > > > http://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting > > > > > There'd be a minimum of 2 weeks between when an RFC that touches the > language is brought up on this

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

2016-11-17 19:45 GMT+01:00 Kalle Sommer Nielsen : > 2016-11-17 19:22 GMT+01:00 Joe Watkins : > > Afternoon Kalle, > > > > We have to start with the assumption that everyone that votes, does so > with > > good intentions. > > Ofcourse, but I just don't think it is fair that someone who made an > RF

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Tony Marston wrote: > "Nikita Popov" wrote in message news:CAF+90c8Wox0wadAVPsP83er= > g9jbw__26ybwofasjb09ryv...@mail.gmail.com... > > >> Hi internals! >> >> I've submitted this RFC for PHP 7.1 previously, but didn't follow through >> due to time constraints. N

[PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On Fri, Nov 18, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Christoph M. Becker wrote: > On 18.11.2016 at 15:55, Nikita Popov wrote: > > Hi internals! > > > > I've submitted this RFC for PHP 7.1 previously, but didn't follow through > > due to time constraints. Now I'd like to propose an extended version for > > PHP 7.2 an

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

2016-11-19 12:18 GMT+01:00 Niklas Keller : > 2016-11-17 19:45 GMT+01:00 Kalle Sommer Nielsen : >> >> 2016-11-17 19:22 GMT+01:00 Joe Watkins : >> > Afternoon Kalle, >> > >> > We have to start with the assumption that everyone that votes, does so >> > with >> > good intentions. >> >> Ofcourse, but I

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: rakeshkush87

On 06.09.2015 at 13:25, rakesh kushwaha wrote: > Developing the PHP runtime > Maintaining an official, bundled PHP extension > Maintaining the documentation > Maintaining php.net Have you already contributed (for instance, submitted pull request or patches)? -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Int

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

Afternoon internals, This is not a new subject for discussion, it has been discussed over and over, and I'm quite sure that many people had formed an opinion on 50%+1 votes before the RFC was posted. One week to allow new points to be raised seems fair enough to me. I didn't say there would be a

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: rkgudboy

On 16.11.2015 at 18:44, Rohit Kashyap wrote: > Developing the PHP runtime > Maintaining an official, bundled PHP extension > Maintaining the documentation > Maintaining php.net Did you already submit some pull request, patches, etc.? -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Deve

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: markbaker

On 03.12.2015 at 00:26, Mark Baker wrote: > Creating an RFC You do not necessarily need a VCS account to create an RFC. And anyway, it's best to introduce your proposal on this mailing list first, see . -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime De

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

On 19/11/16 12:10, Joe Watkins wrote: > For such a simple question, 3 weeks in total should be long enough. Is this simply ... Every element of a vote has to achieve 2/3rds? While there are many cases where a simple yes/no question can eventually be agreed on, and I would prefer that some of the 5

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: pakistanimoon

On 13.01.2016 at 13:40, Imran Qamer wrote: > Developing the PHP runtime > Maintaining an official, bundled PHP extension > Maintaining the documentation > Translating the documentation > Maintaining php.net Sorry for the late reply. Have you already contributed to PHP? If so, it would be nice i

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

Afternoon Lester, > Is this simply ... Every element of a vote has to achieve 2/3rds? Yes, it is. But before you rubbish that idea as ridiculous, think about what it really means. It doesn't mean that people will continue to open a 2/3 vote and then pin a list of subsidiary decisions onto the

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: bof

On 05.01.2016 at 16:31, Patrick Schaaf wrote: > Help with mirror (infrastructure!) maintenance. Hannes Magnusson > indicated I\'d need a GIT account for that, Daniel Brown thinks > I\'ll need web karma. Sorry for the late reply, Patrick. Are you still interested in helping with the infrastructur

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: mprelude

On 21.01.2016 at 17:38, Matt Prelude wrote: > To contribute bugfixes to PHP. Great! Have you already submitted respective pull requests or patches? Otherwise it might be best if you start this way. :-) Thanks! Hm, seems that is not available. :/ -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Internals -

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Joe Watkins wrote: > Afternoon Lester, > > > Is this simply ... Every element of a vote has to achieve 2/3rds? > > Yes, it is. > > But before you rubbish that idea as ridiculous, think about what it really > means. > > It doesn't mean that people will continue to

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

Afternoon Nikita, Why does there need to be sub-questions ? If there needs be sub-questions, and they are resolved by only a slim majority, then do you have the kind of consensus you should need to act ? Cheers Joe On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Nikita Popov wrote: > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: cranavvo

On 24.05.2016 at 15:43, Connor Simpson wrote: > Overall PHP maintenance by the guidelines. Have you already contributed pull requests or patches? Otherwise it might be best to start by doing so. :-) -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscrib

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote] Typed Properties

Heh, so, this week, a coworker of mine started using PHP 7, and he calls me over, and he's like, "I don't get it, I had heard PHP 7 was supposed to have type-hints now - it worked for return-types, but what am I doing wrong, I can't seem to get this to work for properties?" He actually had somethi

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: smarijic

On 08.08.2016 at 20:19, Silvio Marijic wrote: > I would like to contribute on maintaining PHP. Creating RFC-s etc. Great! It might be best to start by submitting some pull requests. :-) -- Christoph M. Becker -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: htt

[PHP-DEV] Re: VCS Account Request: alonsorivel

On 02.10.2016 at 08:31, Alonso Rivel wrote: > Collaborate with others to provide better documentation Great, thanks! Please start by submitting some patches via , and ping the documentation mailing list () if these patches will not be addressed in a timely manner. -- Chr

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote] Typed Properties

If every language is the same then what's the point of different languages? People use Scala and PHP for different things, if your developers are considering walking for that reason then they should evaluate whether they want to build things or whether they want to be trendy. Good (heck, great) dev

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

Afternoon internals, I was wrong about it not changing, and wrong about only needing a week. In fact, after some more thinking time, and re-reading everything here, I'll present a revised, slightly larger RFC. We'll start discussion, for the full two weeks, from the beginning, when revised RFC i

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote] Typed Properties

Hey there, I’ve actually been working on an implementation covering also typed references, so that it’s possible to create references to a typed property, which had been a major concern back then. See also: https://github.com/bwoebi/php-src/compare/typed_properties...bwoebi:typed_ref_propertie

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

On 19/11/16 13:03, Joe Watkins wrote: > But before you rubbish that idea as ridiculous, think about what it really > means. ? I'm quite happy with the idea ... all I was rubbishing is the idea that it's a 'simple' change, but you seem to have realised that now? My only problem is with the way the

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote] Typed Properties

Thanks for your work on this Bob, it is *very* appreciated! > On 19 Nov 2016, at 21:51, Bob Weinand wrote: > > Hey there, > > I’ve actually been working on an implementation covering also typed > references, so that it’s possible to create references to a typed property, > which had been a ma

[PHP-DEV] Request for wiki account activation

Hi PHP! I'm willing to write some awesome RFCs to make PHP great again, I'll build a wall and it'll be tremendous. Very very great. :-P But I'll start with something simple first :-P it is about improving ArrayIterator (you can find a draft here https://gist.github.com/Netmosfera/200c5e923f34cbc0

Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for wiki account activation

Afternoon internals, Wes already registered for a wiki account, but "it doesn't work". Can someone fix it, please. @Wes we aren't paying for any walls. Cheers Joe On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Net Mo wrote: > Hi PHP! > > I'm willing to write some awesome RFCs to make PHP great again, I'll

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

On 17/11/2016 18:23, Joe Watkins wrote: The sum of their parts amounts to a substantial change in the way we conduct development here. [...] Let us consider each issue on it's own, make good decisions on each issue, with clear majorities. You seem to take the same basis as me, and reach the o

Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for wiki account activation

Hi! On 19.11.2016 at 17:15, Joe Watkins wrote: > Afternoon internals, > > Wes already registered for a wiki account, but "it doesn't work". Is it the old problem with the "CAPTCHA", i.e. the field labeled "To which email address do you have to send an email to now?" You have to put in the emai

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote] Typed Properties

On 19/11/2016 14:04, Rasmus Schultz wrote: lack of features and consistency [...] where these features were engineered into the language from the design stage, rather than being added on a bit at a time. I think the consistency and "engineered in" parts of this are more important than people g

Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for wiki account activation

On 19.11.2016 at 17:40, Wes wrote: > I could log in now. Username is WesNetmo > I only need write privileges, right? Yeah, most likely someone would have to approve the account. I don't have the right to do so. Cheers, Christoph > Thanks! > > 2016-11-19 17:34 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : >

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On 18/11/2016 14:55, Nikita Popov wrote: Hi internals! I've submitted this RFC for PHP 7.1 previously, but didn't follow through due to time constraints. Now I'd like to propose an extended version for PHP 7.2 and vote on it sooner rather than later to avoid a repeat performance. https://w

Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for wiki account activation

On Nov 19, 2016 9:16 AM, "Joe Watkins" wrote: > > Afternoon internals, > > Wes already registered for a wiki account, but "it doesn't work". > > Can someone fix it, please. > > @Wes we aren't paying for any walls. Don't worry, we'll make python pay for the wall. > > Cheers > Joe > > On Sat, Nov

Re: [PHP-DEV] Limited access to php_version.h [Fwd: [PHP-CVS] svn: /SVNROOT/ global_avail]

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:07 AM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > Hi, > > I've restricted access to main/php_version.h. This should restrict wrong > merges by a bit. Hope this doesn't cause issues. Current RMs should have > access. This is the current list: > > avail|rasmus,johannes,tyrael,ab,jpauli,da

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

Hi Rowan 2016-11-19 18:23 GMT+01:00 Rowan Collins : > On a broader note, I would like to restate my desire for some kind of road > map or plan of roughly when 8.0 is expected, to inform decisions on things > like this. Does "deprecate in 7.2" mean removal in 2 years time, or 5, or > 10? > > Previo

Re: [PHP-DEV] Request for wiki account activation

2016-11-19 18:32 GMT+01:00 Ryan Pallas : > Don't worry, we'll make python pay for the wall. It was to my understanding that the Perl project and Larry "Wall" was to pay for it, no? -- regards, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsub

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > So to answer your question in a short without much more rambling: I > think we should deprecate in x.z, then remove in x.z+1 depending on > the feature, if we say "Oh let's remove this in the next major", > chances are that major won'

Re: [PHP-DEV] Immutability RFC

I'm not Paul, but... If you have a data storage system using CRAP (Create Read Archive Purge) instead of CRUD, or EventSourcing, or any other system that needs to maintain history, then you need stored objects that have identities (document abc revision 123, for instance) so you can reference

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On 19.11.2016 at 18:56, Marco Pivetta wrote: > On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > >> So to answer your question in a short without much more rambling: I >> think we should deprecate in x.z, then remove in x.z+1 depending on >> the feature, if we say "Oh let's remove t

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On 19.11.2016 at 18:23, Rowan Collins wrote: > On a broader note, I would like to restate my desire for some kind of > road map or plan of roughly when 8.0 is expected, to inform decisions on > things like this. Does "deprecate in 7.2" mean removal in 2 years time, > or 5, or 10? > > Previously I

Re: [PHP-DEV] Countable Type Hint

On 11/17/2016 10:12 AM, Niklas Keller wrote: No, what Craig is proposing is a type hint that covers both the existing Countable interface and primitives which are naturally countable. If the union types RFC had passed, you'd be able to say "array|Traversable $foo"; a recent RFC lets you instead

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

Hi Marco 2016-11-19 18:56 GMT+01:00 Marco Pivetta : > That will end up breaking the "expected" (because it's not that way anyway, > but almost) SemVer approach, diminishing the trust from consumers in any > kind of upgrade. > Most of the current open-source libs out there are trying to push for Se

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On 19/11/2016 17:56, Marco Pivetta wrote: On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Kalle Sommer Nielsen > wrote: So to answer your question in a short without much more rambling: I think we should deprecate in x.z, then remove in x.z+1 depending on the feature, if we sa

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

Hi Christoph 2016-11-19 19:23 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : > IMHO, we should consider introducing a fixed schedule for major releases > (say, every 4 years). I think that should depend on a case by case basis for when we are working towards a new version, a lot of awesome work are already in f

Re: [PHP-DEV] Countable Type Hint

Hi! > Does anybody have any thoughts on this? > Should I bring *countable* to RFC? > Should I bring *arraylike* to RFC? Nothing prevents one from having such interfaces or classes or traits if they need it. I don't see any need of adding more special cases into the language. Special cases are alw

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Typed Properties

Hi! > Any plans to revive this RFC or is it officially dead? I really wish people won't use [Vote] subject in topics having nothing to do with RFC voting start/stop. -- Stas Malyshev smalys...@gmail.com -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.

Re: [PHP-DEV] Countable Type Hint

On 19 November 2016 at 18:36, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > > > Should I bring *countable* to RFC? > > Nothing prevents one from having such interfaces or classes or traits if > they need it. I don't see any need of adding more special cases into the > language. Special cases are always bad design

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

Hi Kalle! On 19.11.2016 at 19:35, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: > 2016-11-19 19:23 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : > >> IMHO, we should consider introducing a fixed schedule for major releases >> (say, every 4 years). > > I think that should depend on a case by case basis for when we are > working

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

Hi Christoph 2016-11-19 19:56 GMT+01:00 Christoph M. Becker : > Hi Kalle! > > But this short-dated decision on whether next will be a major or minor > is exactly the problem. Consider, for instance, this RFC which targets > 7.2 for deprecation and 8.0 for removal. What if we decide in some > mon

Re: [PHP-DEV] Immutability RFC

19.11.2016 19:15 "Larry Garfield" napisał(a): > > I'm not Paul, but... > > If you have a data storage system using CRAP (Create Read Archive Purge) instead of CRUD, or EventSourcing, or any other system that needs to maintain history, then you need stored objects that have identities (document abc

Re: [PHP-DEV] Immutability RFC

> On Nov 19, 2016, at 13:22, Michał Brzuchalski > wrote: > > In Event Sourced application Aggregates and Entities are mutable but > pushing Events for later write but speaking of ValueObject which ideally > could be immutable classes there is must on immutability and AFAIK there is > no need fo

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Abolish 50%+1 Votes

Hi all, On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 7:45 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: > On Nov 19, 2016 11:34 AM, "Joe Watkins" wrote: >> >> Morning Pierre, >> >> Sorry, but yes. >> >> http://wiki.php.net/rfc/voting >> >> > There'd be a minimum of 2 weeks between when an RFC that touches the > language is brought up on t

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

On 19/11/2016 18:35, Kalle Sommer Nielsen wrote: Having a fixed, forced major version does not sound that great if we do not have something awesome that could only ever exist in a new major version Again, you're looking at version numbers as primarily a branding thing ("something awesome") r

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Typed Properties

On 19/11/2016 18:38, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: Hi! Any plans to revive this RFC or is it officially dead? I really wish people won't use [Vote] subject in topics having nothing to do with RFC voting start/stop. It's because it's a reply to an old thread. Which is annoying in itself for tho

Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Deprecations for PHP 7.2

2016-11-19 22:56 GMT+01:00 Rowan Collins : > Again, you're looking at version numbers as primarily a branding thing > ("something awesome") rather than a technical thing ("something that breaks > compatibility"). Yes because that has been our past model for a long time. Like I mentioned, PHP 5.3 s