Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Kris Craig wrote: > On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Thomas Hruska wrote: >> On 11/12/2012 9:22 AM, Derick Rethans wrote: >> Why deprecate? Just because you like PDO doesn't mean everyone else will >> like it. Just because mysql_query() tends to create security

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Thomas Hruska wrote: > On 11/12/2012 9:22 AM, Derick Rethans wrote: > >> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Adam Harvey wrote: >> >> I've written an RFC to cover deprecating ext/mysql in PHP 5.5: >>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/**mysql_deprecation

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

> Users are lazy - binding each field separately is going to drive some to > resort to string concatenation, which will result in a situation nearly > identical to what you have already. You don't have to bind each field separately. I don't think I have ever done that with PDO . . . -- PHP Inter

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/12/2012 9:22 AM, Derick Rethans wrote: On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Adam Harvey wrote: I've written an RFC to cover deprecating ext/mysql in PHP 5.5: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation. While we handled the soft deprecation in the documentation purely via a straw poll on Internals, I pres

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 6:08 AM, Adam Harvey wrote: > We can't really unbundle and move to PECL without > deprecating first anyway > For the record, we did this with other extensions in the past. Technically mysql isn't any different, we only make a more careful approach because ext/mysql "just

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

David Muir wrote: No other extension was deprecated before moving to PECL, so why the extra hurt for ext/mysql? As I've said before, it doesn't makes sense to have it throw notices while it's in core, then no longer throw notices once moved to PECL. If the plan is to drop it completely, and not m

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:02 +0800, Laruence wrote: > Hey: > sorry for top reply. > > but how about, move mysql to PECL instead of a E_DEPRECATED? Once ext/mysql is dropped from php-src we will add it to PECL and make a release there. Still it will be gone for many users. johannes -- PHP

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Hey: sorry for top reply. but how about, move mysql to PECL instead of a E_DEPRECATED? thanks On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > On Nov 16, 2012, at 3:16, David Muir wrote: > >> The point is, an extension should never be throwing deprecation warnings >> for a plann

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 21/11/12 16:08, Adam Harvey wrote: On 21 November 2012 13:03, David Muir wrote: On 21/11/12 15:47, Adam Harvey wrote: 2. If we decide not to generate E_DEPRECATED notices in PHP 5.5, what should the next course of action be: (a) Enhance the manual text to make the soft deprecation clear

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 21 November 2012 12:47, Adam Harvey wrote: > Just to be clear: I don't think that "do nothing" is a very useful > option for the second question, which is why I've omitted it — it > doesn't seem like anyone's particularly satisfied with the current > state of affairs. I still think this is use

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 21 November 2012 13:03, David Muir wrote: > On 21/11/12 15:47, Adam Harvey wrote: >> 2. If we decide not to generate E_DEPRECATED notices in PHP 5.5, what >> should the next course of action be: >>(a) Enhance the manual text to make the soft deprecation clearer, >> and generate E_DEPRECATED

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 21/11/12 15:47, Adam Harvey wrote: On 19 November 2012 20:44, Anthony Ferrara wrote: My intention at this stage is to call a vote next Monday: it feels like the discussion has mostly died down now (which isn't to say I think we're at a consensus necessarily — it just feels as though the flur

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 19 November 2012 20:44, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> My intention at this stage is to call a vote next Monday: it feels >> like the discussion has mostly died down now (which isn't to say I >> think we're at a consensus necessarily — it just feels as though the >> flurry of opinions have been made

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

> What if some of us got together and launched a new wiki (I'm thinking > something separate from wiki.php.net) site dedicated to providing accurate, > up-to-date tutorials on how to do _ in PHP? Unlike most other sites, > we'd be in a good position to displace inaccurate sources like w3schoo

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 3:32 PM, David Muir wrote: > On 20/11/12 21:22, Lester Caine wrote: > >> Ulf Wendel wrote: >> >>>1. Add this link to the RFC?: > >> https://wikis.oracle.com/**display/mysql/Converting+to+**MySQLi > >>

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 20/11/12 21:22, Lester Caine wrote: Ulf Wendel wrote: 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wikis.oracle.com/display/mysql/Converting+to+MySQLi As the author I cannot recommend materials created in 2006 and not updated since then for inclusion into a RFC. At the end of the day this i

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > hi, > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Kris Craig wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Pierre Joye > wrote: > >> > >> Lester, > >> > >> My point is: less talk, more acts. > >> > >> You want better docs? Contribute. > >> > >>

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

hi, On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 6:43 PM, Kris Craig wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: >> >> Lester, >> >> My point is: less talk, more acts. >> >> You want better docs? Contribute. >> >> Cheers, >> > > I think there's definitely room for improvement in making mysqli tu

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > Lester, > > My point is: less talk, more acts. > > You want better docs? Contribute. > > Cheers, > > I think there's definitely room for improvement in making mysqli tutorials more common and accessible, but I don't think that should cause us

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Lester, My point is: less talk, more acts. You want better docs? Contribute. Cheers, On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > Pierre Joye wrote: >> >> https://www.google.de/search?q=php+mysqli+tutorial > > Which gives About 273,000 results and the first of them are causing more >

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Am 20.11.2012 13:25, schrieb Lester Caine: Ulf Wendel wrote: Am 20.11.2012 11:22, schrieb Lester Caine: Ulf Wendel wrote: 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wikis.oracle.com/display/mysql/Converting+to+MySQLi As the author I cannot recommend materials created in 2006 and not updated

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

2012/11/20 Lester Caine > Pierre Joye wrote: > >> https://www.google.de/search?**q=php+mysqli+tutorial >> > Which gives About 273,000 results and the first of them are causing more > confusion with PDO alternative. > > BUT newcomers know nothing

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Ulf Wendel wrote: Am 20.11.2012 11:22, schrieb Lester Caine: Ulf Wendel wrote: 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wikis.oracle.com/display/mysql/Converting+to+MySQLi As the author I cannot recommend materials created in 2006 and not updated since then for inclusion into a RFC. At th

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Pierre Joye wrote: https://www.google.de/search?q=php+mysqli+tutorial Which gives About 273,000 results and the first of them are causing more confusion with PDO alternative. BUT newcomers know nothing about mysqli and will be looking for https://www.google.de/search?q=php+mysql+tutorial gives

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

https://www.google.de/search?q=php+mysqli+tutoriral&aq=f&oq=php+mysqli+tutoriral&aqs=chrome.0.57j0l2j64.6593&sugexp=chrome,mod=15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Lester Caine wrote: > Ulf Wendel wrote: 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wiki

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Am 20.11.2012 11:22, schrieb Lester Caine: Ulf Wendel wrote: 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wikis.oracle.com/display/mysql/Converting+to+MySQLi As the author I cannot recommend materials created in 2006 and not updated since then for inclusion into a RFC. At the end of the d

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Ulf Wendel wrote: 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wikis.oracle.com/display/mysql/Converting+to+MySQLi As the author I cannot recommend materials created in 2006 and not updated since then for inclusion into a RFC. At the end of the day this is the problem all around. There nee

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Am 13.11.2012 04:08, schrieb Adam Harvey: > On 13 November 2012 08:44, Christopher Jones > wrote: >> Adam, can you: >> >> 1. Add this link to the RFC?: >> https://wikis.oracle.com/display/mysql/Converting+to+MySQLi As the author I cannot recommend materials created in 2006 and not updated

RE: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

s; Patrick Allaert; internals@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation hi Anthony, On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Kris, > > >> By "NEXT" are you referring to 6.0 or 5.6? > > > Whatever the release after 5.5 is.

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Am 16.11.2012 03:23, schrieb Sherif Ramadan: > People have been talking about and educating others about the > deprecation of ext/mysql for quite some time now. I'm sure that it Random dates in the lifes of ext/mysql[i]: 2003 * ext/mysqli, the "improved" version of ext/mysql gets developed *

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

hi Anthony, On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Kris, > > >> By "NEXT" are you referring to 6.0 or 5.6? > > > Whatever the release after 5.5 is. Be it 5.6, or 6.0, NEXT indicates the > next temporal release... > > >> >> Also, can you add an option for raising E_DEPRECATED in

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Levi Morrison wrote: > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Anthony Ferrara > wrote: > > And in either case, removal would happen one release after hard > > deprecation. > > I'd actually propose that it is removed in PHP 6, even if there is PHP > 5.6 and 5.7, etc. So

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > And in either case, removal would happen one release after hard > deprecation. I'd actually propose that it is removed in PHP 6, even if there is PHP 5.6 and 5.7, etc. Something can be deprecated for several versions. It is a significant

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Kris, By "NEXT" are you referring to 6.0 or 5.6? > Whatever the release after 5.5 is. Be it 5.6, or 6.0, NEXT indicates the next temporal release... > Also, can you add an option for raising E_DEPRECATED in 5.5 then removing > support altogether in 6? > That's already in there. That's what I

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 5:04 AM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Pierre, > > Hard/soft deprecated? > > > > I suppose by "soft" you mean not actually deprecated but only > > documented as such? > > > > Correct. Hard = raising E_DEPRECATED from code. Soft = Documentation and PR > only... > By "NEXT" are y

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Sat, 2012-11-17 at 16:19 +0100, Ángel González wrote: > What are those benefits that mean everyone needs to move to mysqli? > I was making myself the opposite question :) With ext/mysql you, for instance, can not - use stored procedures (there's no "mysql_next_result" or such) - use SSL wit

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Pierre, Hard/soft deprecated? > > I suppose by "soft" you mean not actually deprecated but only > documented as such? > Correct. Hard = raising E_DEPRECATED from code. Soft = Documentation and PR only...

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

hi Anthony, On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Adam, > > My intention at this stage is to call a vote next Monday: it feels >> like the discussion has mostly died down now (which isn't to say I >> think we're at a consensus necessarily — it just feels as though the >> flurr

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Adam, My intention at this stage is to call a vote next Monday: it feels > like the discussion has mostly died down now (which isn't to say I > think we're at a consensus necessarily — it just feels as though the > flurry of opinions have been made and argued either way), and I'm > hoping that eve

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 19 November 2012 17:10, Chad Emrys wrote: > On 11/17/2012 08:54 PM, Adam Harvey wrote: >> >> On 16/11/2012 8:58 PM, "Patrick ALLAERT" wrote: >>> Maybe it is worth mentioning in the RFC what the E_DEPRECATED notice >>> message would look like so that people hiding it know what the plan >>> is.

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/17/2012 08:54 PM, Adam Harvey wrote: On 16/11/2012 8:58 PM, "Patrick ALLAERT" wrote: 2012/11/12 Adam Harvey : Hi everyone, I've written an RFC to cover deprecating ext/mysql in PHP 5.5: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation. While we handled the soft deprecation in the documentatio

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 16/11/2012 8:58 PM, "Patrick ALLAERT" wrote: > > 2012/11/12 Adam Harvey : > > Hi everyone, > > > > I've written an RFC to cover deprecating ext/mysql in PHP 5.5: > > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation. While we handled the soft > > deprecation in the documentation purely via a straw pol

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

>> Being able to fire off your SQL query at the top of a page and then >> instead of waiting around for the result continue building the page >> until you get to the point where you need the DB result. > Do you really expend that much time building your html that it makes a > difference? Let's not

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/17/2012 09:14 AM, Ángel González wrote: > On 17/11/12 17:24, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >> Being able to fire off your SQL query at the top of a page and then >> instead of waiting around for the result continue building the page >> until you get to the point where you need the DB result. > Do you

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Kris Craig wrote: There is something really important I'd also like to stress: In UPGRADING, as well as any other literature we release designed to help people with this transition, we should not simply focus on porting ext/mysql code to mysqli. We should emphasize the use of prepared statement

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 17/11/12 17:24, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Right, that is what I meant by focusing more on the carrot than the > stick. Many people, yourself included, don't realize the things they > would gain switching to mysqli. We need to do a better job with that and > perhaps even consider if there are other

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Lester Caine wrote: > Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > >> We need a frontpage notice. A big notice in the next UPGRADING file. >> There was nothing about this in the 5.4 UPGRADING file, for example. We >> also need tutorials showing how to migrate from mysql to mysqli and

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/17/2012 07:19 AM, Ángel González wrote: > On 16/11/12 17:03, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >> So, I am curious, why are you waiting on us for this? Is it because >> ext/mysql does everything you need and you simply have no need for any >> of the new and obviously better features in mysqli? I would ha

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 16/11/12 17:03, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > So, I am curious, why are you waiting on us for this? Is it because > ext/mysql does everything you need and you simply have no need for any > of the new and obviously better features in mysqli? I would have thought > you would have switched to mysqli year

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Jan Ehrhardt wrote: > Sherif Ramadan in php.internals (Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:23:48 -0500): >>People have been talking about and educating others about the >>deprecation of ext/mysql for quite some time now. I'm sure that it >>could be more clearly voiced from an offi

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Nov 16, 2012, at 19:06, Ronald Chmara wrote: > Er, mysqli, too? What? As Ferenc noted: This was a typo. Sorry for the confusion. johannes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Sherif Ramadan in php.internals (Thu, 15 Nov 2012 21:23:48 -0500): >People have been talking about and educating others about the >deprecation of ext/mysql for quite some time now. I'm sure that it >could be more clearly voiced from an official PHP Project stand-point, >but we're down-playing the a

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Steve Clay wrote: On 11/15/12 3:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: That's my suggestion. Officially deprecate it, but don't add E_DEPRECATED to it in 5.5. Update the documentation, and start a PR campaign to get off This may be a narrow PR channel, but I'd focus on getting @deprecated into the buil

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

I'm already working somewhat with the PhpStorm guys on other things relating to PHP. I could spearhead that effort, but I won't bring it up until this is decided. On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Steve Clay wrote: > On 11/15/12 3:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> >> That's my suggestion. Officia

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: We need a frontpage notice. A big notice in the next UPGRADING file. There was nothing about this in the 5.4 UPGRADING file, for example. We also need tutorials showing how to migrate from mysql to mysqli and conference talks on the same showing some of the cooler things lik

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Johannes Schlüter wrote: > We, from the MySQL Connector Team at Oracle, add new features to mysqli (and > eventually PDO) only, though, for quite some time already. Bugs in ext/mysql > are being fixed in a best effort way and we plan to do this as long as > req

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/12 3:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: That's my suggestion. Officially deprecate it, but don't add E_DEPRECATED to it in 5.5. Update the documentation, and start a PR campaign to get off This may be a narrow PR channel, but I'd focus on getting @deprecated into the built-in function stub

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/16/2012 01:34 AM, Ryan McCue wrote: >> Pierre Joye wrote: >>> Wordpress lead developer statement is rather clear: Go ahead, we will >>> follow. >> >> Indeed, we have patches written already [1], but they were low priority. >> The plan is to aim for landing these in th

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/16/2012 01:34 AM, Ryan McCue wrote: > Pierre Joye wrote: >> Wordpress lead developer statement is rather clear: Go ahead, we will follow. > > Indeed, we have patches written already [1], but they were low priority. > The plan is to aim for landing these in the next major version, assuming >

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 16/11/2012 08:55, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > I still don't see the point of using E_DEPRECATED like this for an > entire extension. And I think it will hurt more than it will help for an > extension this heavily used. It is going to encourage people to simply > turn off that warning because they wi

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

> Officially deprecating mysqli is, in my opinion, mostly a help for users > to go in the "correct" direction early instead of struggling due to missing > features later. I suppose the mysqli here was just a typo. -- Ferenc Kovács @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

2012/11/12 Adam Harvey : > Hi everyone, > > I've written an RFC to cover deprecating ext/mysql in PHP 5.5: > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation. While we handled the soft > deprecation in the documentation purely via a straw poll on Internals, > I presume this will end up needing to go to a

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Nov 16, 2012, at 3:16, David Muir wrote: > The point is, an extension should never be throwing deprecation warnings > for a planned migration to PECL. We should warn, when we can. There is a reason that we have PHP_DEP_FE in the source as a feature to mark functions deprecated. (99% of all f

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Nov 16, 2012, at 5:48, Levi Morrison wrote: > I believe we haven't taken all the proper steps. Have we spent efforts > educating the community? Yes. Are those efforts proportionate to the > magnitude of the usage? No; ext/mysql has widespread adoption and > needs widespread education and tra

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Nov 15, 2012, at 22:28, Will Fitch wrote: > Your argument is valid. The question of, why do we deprecate something > that is so heavily used comes to mind, but in the end, this is a something > the extension maintainers want - not end users. Maybe the correct solution > is to hand off the mai

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Hello internals. Sometimes I wonder if people even read the stuff that is written here. I understand that this thread got long, but it's not that bad - most messages are short and readable, easy to follow. As with "APOCALYPSE WILL HAPPEN" style claims, that we see here, I just don't understand you

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Pierre Joye wrote: > Wordpress lead developer statement is rather clear: Go ahead, we will follow. Indeed, we have patches written already [1], but they were low priority. The plan is to aim for landing these in the next major version, assuming PHP does go ahead with this. [1]: http://core.trac.w

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

hi Philip, On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Philip Olson wrote: > But this seriously makes me wonder if we should add something like > how_do_i_make_my_code_more_awesome(). That may look insane (well, the > function name is) but imagine it saying "Stop using ext/mysql" and > then users hear abo

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Nov 16, 2012, at 12:55 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/16/2012 12:51 AM, Patrick ALLAERT wrote: >> Rasmus, >> >> As per the RFC: adding E_DEPRECATED only in mysql_connect(), >> mysql_pconnect(). Which means only one error (normally) by request. > > I still don't see the point of using E_DE

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

hi Rasmus, On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:36 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/15/2012 11:27 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: >> hi Anthony, >> >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus > any custom error handl

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

> Actually we have never used E_DEPRECATED to deprecate an entire > extension. We have deprecated specific functions and engine features, > but for entire extensions we have provided alternatives and/or waited > for them to become inconsequential and then moved them to pecl. But we > certainly neve

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/16/2012 12:51 AM, Patrick ALLAERT wrote: > Rasmus, > > As per the RFC: adding E_DEPRECATED only in mysql_connect(), > mysql_pconnect(). Which means only one error (normally) by request. I still don't see the point of using E_DEPRECATED like this for an entire extension. And I think it will

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Rasmus, As per the RFC: adding E_DEPRECATED only in mysql_connect(), mysql_pconnect(). Which means only one error (normally) by request. 2012/11/16 Rasmus Lerdorf : > On 11/15/2012 11:27 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: >> hi Anthony, >> >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> A

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/2012 11:27 PM, Pierre Joye wrote: > hi Anthony, > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > >>> Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus any custom error handlers will be triggered regardless of the error_reporting setting which

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

hi Anthony, On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus >> > any custom error handlers will be triggered regardless of the >> > error_reporting setting which depending on the implementation of the >> > error h

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

*Note:* this email is also available as a gist for easier reading: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation Sirs, Gentlemen and Scholars, I am appreciative of all of the discussion that has happened on this RFC. It has helped me understand how we feel collectively about ext/mysql and how to dep

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/15/2012 05:52 PM, Sherif Ramadan wrote: >> This was the soft-deprecation notice that I believe was discussed >> before the actual steps were to be taken to officially deprecate >> ext/mysql. Yes, it's a suggestion, but a clearly worded

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Sherif, > >> I'm just trying to understand your reasoning behind this view. >> >> How is "telling people it's deprecated, but only in the manual" going >> to be any different than "putting warnings to discourage future use, >> but only in t

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/2012 05:52 PM, Sherif Ramadan wrote: > This was the soft-deprecation notice that I believe was discussed > before the actual steps were to be taken to officially deprecate > ext/mysql. Yes, it's a suggestion, but a clearly worded suggestion, > none-the-less. It has been around for a little

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/15/2012 04:18 PM, Sherif Ramadan wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> If it wasn't that active open source projects still have ext/mysql as their >>> primary connection today, I would agree

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 14/11/12 03:17, Adam Harvey wrote: > On 14 November 2012 00:07, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> There's one important thing that I think you all are missing here. You keep >> bringing up that we should just use the normal "deprecation" process. The >> problem is that the deprecation process was never

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

> The main argument is that we haven't actually made it clear in the > manual that the extension is going to be deprecated. There is a user > note on http://www.php.net/manual/en/book.mysql.php and a "This > extension is not recommended for writing new code" on > http://www.php.net/manual/en/intro

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Sherif, I'm just trying to understand your reasoning behind this view. > > How is "telling people it's deprecated, but only in the manual" going > to be any different than "putting warnings to discourage future use, > but only in the manual"? > I'm not saying to put it only in the manual. I'm say

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/2012 04:18 PM, Sherif Ramadan wrote: > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > >> >> >> If it wasn't that active open source projects still have ext/mysql as their >> primary connection today, I would agree with you. But we still have open >> source projects, major ones

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > > > If it wasn't that active open source projects still have ext/mysql as their > primary connection today, I would agree with you. But we still have open > source projects, major ones, that still rely on it even in their dev > versions. S

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Sherif, You see, I'm skeptical about this approach. Mainly because I don't see > how any of that has proven to be the case in the past. Albeit, we've > never deprecated such a heavily used extension before in the past, but > still. There remains the issue of "how many people will actually read > t

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Will, > > >> Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus >> > any custom error handlers will be triggered regardless of the >> > error_reporting setting which depending on the implementation of the >> > error han

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: > Will, > > > > Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus > > > any custom error handlers will be triggered regardless of the > > > error_reporting setting which depending on the implementation of the > > > error

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/2012 01:50 PM, Austen Hoogen wrote: > The reason to depreciate and/or cease support for a feature (not the same Pet peeve of mine. The word is deprecate. Depreciate is a financial term. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/un

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Hello, chiming in: >> > So what solution is there to this? Should it not be deprecated? This >> > same issue (is still happening) with register_globals for us, but it's >> > acceptable as it has been phased out. Should there be no deprecation >> > warning now and wait for a future release? >> >>

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/15/2012 12:08 PM, Will Fitch wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > > Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, > plus > > any custom error handlers will be triggered regar

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/2012 12:08 PM, Will Fitch wrote: > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus > any custom error handlers will be triggered regardless of the > error_reporting setting which depending on the i

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Will, > Actually, no it wouldn't. You still get the overhead of the error, plus > > any custom error handlers will be triggered regardless of the > > error_reporting setting which depending on the implementation of the > > error handler can be quite costly performance-wise. > > > > So what soluti

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 11/15/2012 11:53 AM, Will Fitch wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Stas Malyshev >wrote: > > > >> Hi! > >> > >>> Again, though, this is a long way down the road: today's discussion is > >>> purely about deprecation. > >> > >> S

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 11/15/2012 11:53 AM, Will Fitch wrote: > On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote: > >> Hi! >> >>> Again, though, this is a long way down the road: today's discussion is >>> purely about deprecation. >> >> So these people using mysql-based code will have for years to live with >> ap

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Stas Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > > Again, though, this is a long way down the road: today's discussion is > > purely about deprecation. > > So these people using mysql-based code will have for years to live with > applications generating thousands of warnings and not

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Hi! > Again, though, this is a long way down the road: today's discussion is > purely about deprecation. So these people using mysql-based code will have for years to live with applications generating thousands of warnings and not be able to do a thing about it? How is it good for them? -- Stani

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

On 15 November 2012 08:36, Devis Lucato wrote: > Sorry if this was already suggested before: for people stuck on legacy > applications and without money to upgrade (e.g. charities, user > groups) a PECL extension would at least provide a way to survive. > Forcing people to upgrade doesn't sound li

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Sorry if this was already suggested before: for people stuck on legacy applications and without money to upgrade (e.g. charities, user groups) a PECL extension would at least provide a way to survive. Forcing people to upgrade doesn't sound like an improvement but more of a way to push people away

Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: ext/mysql deprecation

Am 14/11/12 03:26, schrieb Michael Kliewe: > Am 14.11.2012 00:23, schrieb Ángel González: >> So the problem really moves onto the CMS providers, do they support >> new php versions and drop customers in shared hosting, do they delay >> supporting the new php versions, or do they reimplement mysql_*

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