Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

> Do you mean the PostgreSQL driver needs to be changed from pg_blah() to > pgBlah() ? It was that extra underscores having been added to the pg_ functions is being put forward as a reason for adding them everywhere else. That is perhaps when this discussion should have been undertaken, but someo

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

2015-03-12 11:41 GMT+02:00 Lester Caine : > On 12/03/15 09:21, Arvids Godjuks wrote: > > Basically this. > > > > Yasuo asked me some time ago how do I see the new interface, and to be > > frank, I do not see a new procedural api interface at all. We have one > > now, and adding a new subset of it

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 12/03/15 09:21, Arvids Godjuks wrote: > Basically this. > > Yasuo asked me some time ago how do I see the new interface, and to be > frank, I do not see a new procedural api interface at all. We have one > now, and adding a new subset of it looks pointless. It has it's problems > and legacy, yo

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

2015-03-12 4:08 GMT+02:00 Lester Caine : > On 11/03/15 22:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > Having namespace for internals would bring much flexibility for API > changes, both > > OO and procedural API. I may try my best to have consensus. > > > > I think you also like to have OO style API for basic > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3/11/2015 8:08 PM, Lester Caine wrote: Personally I just want to keep the current name set and so the sheer volume of changes proposed is a big kick in the face to me. YES! The time to make such a change to the names is about 1998 or maybe 2000. Every person who learns the current names i

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 11/03/15 22:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Having namespace for internals would bring much flexibility for API changes, > both > OO and procedural API. I may try my best to have consensus. > > I think you also like to have OO style API for basic > variables(int/float/array) as I am. > Unless we hav

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Lester Caine wrote on 10/03/2015 21:12: > >> On 10/03/15 20:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> >>> YES there is room to create a more consistent procedural interface, but > my original question still applies "consistent with what rule

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 11/03/15 12:32, Rowan Collins wrote: > Lester Caine wrote on 10/03/2015 21:12: >> On 10/03/15 20:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > YES there is room to create a more consistent procedural interface, > but > my original question still applies "consistent with what rules?" >>> It's possible ch

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Lester Caine wrote on 10/03/2015 21:12: On 10/03/15 20:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: YES there is room to create a more consistent procedural interface, but my original question still applies "consistent with what rules?" It's possible choice. I agree that names without "_" looks more consistent. Per

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 10/03/15 20:44, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> > YES there is room to create a more consistent procedural interface, but >> > my original question still applies "consistent with what rules?" > > It's possible choice. > I agree that names without "_" looks more consistent. > Personally, I don't care muc

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Lester, On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:27 PM, Lester Caine wrote: > On 10/03/15 01:59, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > The same argument applies to fresh new OO APIs. It's just a matter of > > targeted PHP version to be supported. There are many things to be > > considered to decide targeted PHP version o

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 10/03/15 01:59, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > The same argument applies to fresh new OO APIs. It's just a matter of > targeted PHP version to be supported. There are many things to be > considered to decide targeted PHP version other than this RFC. We have many > new features/behaviors in newer PHP vers

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 08/03/2015 01:15, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 3:39 AM, Rowan Collins > > wrote: >> >> To an extent, yes. Part of the point that I and others are making >> is that th

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Gregory, On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 7:03 PM, Grégory Planchat wrote: > Le 08/03/2015 00:44, Yasuo Ohgaki a écrit : > > Hi Gregory, >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:12 AM, Grégory Planchat wrote: >> >> Le 07/03/2015 02:39, Yasuo Ohgaki a écrit : >>> >>> We may provide new names and new parameter

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 08/03/2015 01:15, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 3:39 AM, Rowan Collins > wrote: To an extent, yes. Part of the point that I and others are making is that this is not a simple change to make. Whatever we do to try and "fix" the current

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Le 08/03/2015 16:53, Lester Caine a écrit : "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet"->length(); "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet"->search('lorem'); "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet"->replace('lorem', 'Lorem'); This is actually the problem that trying to ignore unicode then creates a black hole. The amount of space n

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 08/03/15 13:53, Grégory Planchat wrote: >> On 08/03/15 10:03, Grégory Planchat wrote: >>> Then using multiple encodings in a same script or using a same script >>> for multiple encodings becomes straightforward and standard. Most PHP >>> developers doesn't even know what is Unicode or a characte

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Le 08/03/2015 12:17, Lester Caine a écrit : On 08/03/15 10:03, Grégory Planchat wrote: Then using multiple encodings in a same script or using a same script for multiple encodings becomes straightforward and standard. Most PHP developers doesn't even know what is Unicode or a character encoding,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 08/03/15 10:03, Grégory Planchat wrote: > Then using multiple encodings in a same script or using a same script > for multiple encodings becomes straightforward and standard. Most PHP > developers doesn't even know what is Unicode or a character encoding, > they just see "odd characters that are

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Yasuo, Le 08/03/2015 00:44, Yasuo Ohgaki a écrit : Hi Gregory, On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:12 AM, Grégory Planchat wrote: Le 07/03/2015 02:39, Yasuo Ohgaki a écrit : We may provide new names and new parameter order in new namespace. The difference is "alias" or "namespace" basically. I don

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 08/03/15 01:15, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Let's agree to disagree. Otherwise, discussion will be circular. > > I would like to keep/maintain legacy procedural functions forever. > You would like to replace/remove legacy procedural functions by OO like API > if it's possible. Discussions like this

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 3:39 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 07/03/2015 01:30, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >> Hi Rowan, >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Rowan Collins > > wrote: >> >> On 5 March 2015 22:05:05 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki > > wro

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Gregory, On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 2:12 AM, Grégory Planchat wrote: > Le 07/03/2015 02:39, Yasuo Ohgaki a écrit : > >> We may provide new names and new parameter order in new namespace. >> The difference is "alias" or "namespace" basically. I don't object to use >> namespace for it at all. In fa

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 07/03/2015 01:30, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: Hi Rowan, On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Rowan Collins > wrote: On 5 March 2015 22:05:05 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki mailto:yohg...@ohgaki.net>> wrote: >Hi Rowan, > >On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Rowan Collins

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Le 07/03/2015 02:39, Yasuo Ohgaki a écrit : We may provide new names and new parameter order in new namespace. The difference is "alias" or "namespace" basically. I don't object to use namespace for it at all. In fact, I would love to have it even if there is issue like writing extremely difficul

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Pierre, On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 7:18 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > > Please suggest better/right way. Having namespace is not alternative for > > having consistent names. > > I think I did, and many other. But you seem to be convinced that > consistency in names is the top priority and will suddenl

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 5 March 2015 22:05:05 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >Hi Rowan, > > > >On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Rowan Collins > >wrote: > > > >> Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 20:20: > >> > >>> Hi Arvids, > >>> > >>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 7:09 AM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Please suggest better/right way. Having namespace is not alternative for > having consistent names. I think I did, and many other. But you seem to be convinced that consistency in names is the top priority and will suddenly make these APIs ea

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Ardids, On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Arvids Godjuks wrote: > Why not take advantage of namespaces and do the new API, building it up > version by version (sure it can't be done in one go), so probably the > extensions gonna follow too. > That allows you to use as OO interface, so do the fu

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

> If PHP has macro or userspace aliasing! > This is one possible solution for this. The engine has support for aliases. See http://php.net/manual/en/internals2.ze1.zendapi.php If I thought this “consistency” was very important (I do not, and I fully expect an RFC on this to fail if this thread

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 5 March 2015 23:22:35 GMT, Arvids Godjuks wrote: >Why not take advantage of namespaces and do the new API, building it up >version by version (sure it can't be done in one go), so probably the >extensions gonna follow too. >That allows you to use as OO interface, so do the functions. Well, yes,

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 5 March 2015 22:05:05 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >Hi Rowan, > >On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Rowan Collins >wrote: > >> Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 20:20: >> >>> Hi Arvids, >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Arvids Godjuks >>> > wrote: >>> >>> 201

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

2015-03-05 22:20 GMT+02:00 Yasuo Ohgaki : > Hi Arvids, > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Arvids Godjuks > wrote: > >> 2015-03-05 13:49 GMT+02:00 Pierre Joye : >> > >> > >> > I will say it again a last time, in my opinion only a clean API; >> > object-like or real object as long as performance i

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 20:20: > >> Hi Arvids, >> >> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Arvids Godjuks > > wrote: >> >> 2015-03-05 13:49 GMT+02:00 Pierre Joye >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 20:20: Hi Arvids, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Arvids Godjuks mailto:arvids.godj...@gmail.com>> wrote: 2015-03-05 13:49 GMT+02:00 Pierre Joye mailto:pierre@gmail.com>>: > > > I will say it again a last time, in my opinion only a clean AP

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Arvids, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Arvids Godjuks wrote: > 2015-03-05 13:49 GMT+02:00 Pierre Joye : > > > > > > I will say it again a last time, in my opinion only a clean API; > > object-like or real object as long as performance is not affected is > > the only way I could see to actual

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

2015-03-05 13:49 GMT+02:00 Pierre Joye : > > > I will say it again a last time, in my opinion only a clean API; > object-like or real object as long as performance is not affected is > the only way I could see to actually solve this problem. > > Changing the names, argument order (pointless once we

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Pierre Joye wrote on 05/03/2015 11:49: On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 09:24: I would love to have new OO APIs for variables. I also like to write procedural code for simple scripts. Therefore, even if we have new OO APIs, I would like to i

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 09:24: >> >> I would love to have new OO APIs for variables. I also like to write >> procedural >> code for simple scripts. Therefore, even if we have new OO APIs, I would >> like to >> improve/maintain procedu

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 05/03/2015 09:24: I would love to have new OO APIs for variables. I also like to write procedural code for simple scripts. Therefore, even if we have new OO APIs, I would like to improve/maintain procedural functions and make them not legacy functions. I don't see scalar

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Christian, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Christian Stoller wrote: > From: yohg...@gmail.com [mailto:yohg...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Yasuo > Ohgaki, Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 9:45 AM > > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Christian Stoller > wrote: > > From: yohg...@gmail.com [mailto:yo

RE: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

From: yohg...@gmail.com [mailto:yohg...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Yasuo Ohgaki, Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 9:45 AM > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Christian Stoller wrote: > From: yohg...@gmail.com [mailto:yohg...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Yasuo Ohgaki, > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 > 7:21

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Le 03/03/2015 00:02, Larry Garfield a écrit : On 3/2/15 4:50 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: On 02/03/2015 22:36, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: I like scalar objects, but it does not resolve that PHP has non standard function names. It does not change old names, therefore it's impossible to resolve issue. This

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 5 March 2015 03:59:00 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >Hi Rowan, > > > >On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Rowan Collins > > > >wrote: > > > >> On 4 March 2015 21:27:53 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki > >wrote: > >> >We cannot remove all issue at

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 5 March 2015 03:59:00 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >Hi Rowan, > >On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Rowan Collins > >wrote: > >> On 4 March 2015 21:27:53 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki >wrote: >> >We cannot remove all issue at once. We are better to adopt >incremental >> >improvement, aren't we? >> >> I think th

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Christian, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Christian Stoller wrote: > From: yohg...@gmail.com [mailto:yohg...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Yasuo > Ohgaki, Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 7:21 AM > > > For example, ctype extension has "ctype_" prefix. It replaces > > "is" to "ctype_". > > we may hav

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rasmus, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 03/04/2015 10:21 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > The same could be done for new names. > > Manual pages for localtime()/mktime()/etc would look a lot nicer. > > I hope there will be more favored developers with the RFC. Since I'm

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03/04/2015 10:21 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > The same could be done for new names. > Manual pages for localtime()/mktime()/etc would look a lot nicer. > I hope there will be more favored developers with the RFC. Since I'm > going to > update manual to have alias search feature, developers used to

RE: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

From: yohg...@gmail.com [mailto:yohg...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Yasuo Ohgaki, Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2015 7:21 AM > For example, ctype extension has "ctype_" prefix. It replaces > "is" to "ctype_". > we may have "isalpha" alias as IEEE compliant name. There are many > IEEE confirmed names alr

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rasmus, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > Every function name defined by IEEE Std 1003.1 along with the arguments > and argument order would be on that list. When we have procedural > functions that are either thin wrappers around or otherwise behave > identically to an

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03/04/2015 08:25 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Rasmus, > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf > wrote: > > On 03/04/2015 08:26 AM, guilhermebla...@gmail.com > wrote: > > @Rasmus: > > > > I don't see w

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rasmus, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:46 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > On 03/04/2015 08:26 AM, guilhermebla...@gmail.com wrote: > > @Rasmus: > > > > I don't see what's the problem of aliasing functions for the next 1-2 > > majors, deprecate the inconsistent one in the following and remove later. > >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 4 March 2015 21:27:53 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >We cannot remove all issue at once. We are better to adopt incremental > >improvement, aren't we? > > I think this, more than anything else, is where I disagree (having been >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Pierre, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > Hi Leigh, > > > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Leigh wrote: > > > >> On 1 March 2015 at 11:29, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >> > > >> > Thoughts? > >> > > >> > >> require 'funct

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 4 March 2015 21:27:53 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >We cannot remove all issue at once. We are better to adopt incremental >improvement, aren't we? I think this, more than anything else, is where I disagree (having been persuaded by arguments in previous discussions). Incremental improvements mea

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Leigh, > > On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Leigh wrote: > >> On 1 March 2015 at 11:29, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> > >> > Thoughts? >> > >> >> require 'function_aliases.php'; // End of discussion. >> >> Maintain it however you want, set it up a

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Leigh, On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Leigh wrote: > On 1 March 2015 at 11:29, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > > > Thoughts? > > > > require 'function_aliases.php'; // End of discussion. > > Maintain it however you want, set it up as a composer package, > whatever. Absolutely no reason for this to

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Several of the costs I listed are for new users, and several will continue > indefinitely if we don't remove the old names, and are therefore long term. > > Could you be more explicit in the benefits you see? I.e. day to day, how >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Leigh wrote: > On 1 March 2015 at 11:29, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> >> Thoughts? >> > > require 'function_aliases.php'; // End of discussion. It is not possible to my knowledge, however, to define function aliases in PHP (a wrapper function would have an obvious performance penalty). Maybe that wou

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Michael, On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Michael Schuett wrote: > So i find this kind of odd since you use err every other place in bz. but > this is a minor nitpick. > > >- bz_error → bzerror >- bz_error_str → bzerrstr > > Overall I fell this change would be nice for new people comi

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 1 March 2015 at 11:29, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > Thoughts? > require 'function_aliases.php'; // End of discussion. Maintain it however you want, set it up as a composer package, whatever. Absolutely no reason for this to be in core, and absolutely not worth the trouble it causes. Sorry if this

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3/3/15 6:46 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: Whether we like it or not, people evaluate languages by matrix like PHP RubyPython OO support5 5 5 Flexible syntax 3 5 5 AOP

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3/4/15 9:03 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:24 AM Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Yasuo, please stop. This isn't going to happen. Changing strlen() to str_len() is just ridiculous. -Rasmus Trevor Suarez wrote on 04/03/2015 15:33: ... well that's a constructive way of going abo

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 04/03/15 17:03, Rowan Collins wrote: > so if you're looking for something constructive, help move those ideas > forward, rather than flogging the dead horse. The extensive changes documented in this RFC are well over the top, but a much better approach would be to identify blocks which do allow

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:24 AM Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: Yasuo, please stop. This isn't going to happen. Changing strlen() to str_len() is just ridiculous. -Rasmus Trevor Suarez wrote on 04/03/2015 15:33: ... well that's a constructive way of going about it. I don't think Yasuo did anything har

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03/04/2015 08:26 AM, guilhermebla...@gmail.com wrote: > @Rasmus: > > I don't see what's the problem of aliasing functions for the next 1-2 > majors, deprecate the inconsistent one in the following and remove later. As far as I am concerned str_len() would be the inconsistent one. Like I explai

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

@Rasmus: I don't see what's the problem of aliasing functions for the next 1-2 majors, deprecate the inconsistent one in the following and remove later. On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Trevor Suarez wrote: > ... well that's a constructive way of going about it. I don't think Yasuo > did anythi

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

... well that's a constructive way of going about it. I don't think Yasuo did anything harmful or rude in making his proposal. Regardless of how realistic the idea may be, I don't think its ever appropriate or constructive to tell someone to simply "stop" because something "is just ridiculous". On

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03/03/2015 07:34 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Michael, > > On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Michael Schuett > wrote: > >> Your evaluation is pretty anecdotal. I agree with some points but you need >> some solid evidence if you are going to rate these languages. Also do you >> have a list of a

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 04/03/15 10:16, Michael Wallner wrote: >> While http has been rejected for bundling, it is another example of not >> > following the C coding standard … > Lester, please stop posting walls of unrelated text. You’re totally off > track. If we’re talking about coding standards, we’re not talking

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

> On 04 03 2015, at 09:58, Lester Caine wrote: > > On 04/03/15 03:34, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> I made list of rename candidates >> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/consistent_function_names#list_of_functions_to_be_renamed >> If you have suggestions, I appreciate! > > Taking the starting point ... the cod

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 04/03/15 00:44, Pierre Joye wrote: > For a php developer point of view, for someone not knowing c or php > internals APIs, I highly recommend https://github.com/phalcon/zephir Yasuo is pushing function names on the basis of following the coding standard, but again these secondary tools muddy th

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 4 March 2015 00:46:49 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >Hi Rowan, > >On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Rowan Collins >wrote: > >> You are measuring the wrong cost. The cost of adding new names is to >> people writing code: >> >> - additional confusion for new users about why everything has two >names >>

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 04/03/15 03:34, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > I made list of rename candidates > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/consistent_function_names#list_of_functions_to_be_renamed > If you have suggestions, I appreciate! Taking the starting point ... the coding standard for writing C code for PHP ... personally I woul

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > (Security should be evaluated by "how difficult to make mistakes", not > "how easy to > fix mistakes" generally. IMHO) > And the consequence of the security breach, of course. -- Yasuo Ohgaki yohg...@ohgaki.net

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

So i find this kind of odd since you use err every other place in bz. but this is a minor nitpick. - bz_error → bzerror - bz_error_str → bzerrstr Overall I fell this change would be nice for new people coming to PHP and alienate some long time users. We also run the risk at this point that

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Michael, On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Michael Schuett wrote: > Your evaluation is pretty anecdotal. I agree with some points but you need > some solid evidence if you are going to rate these languages. Also do you > have a list of all the functions you would like to rename or is this a >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Your evaluation is pretty anecdotal. I agree with some points but you need some solid evidence if you are going to rate these languages. Also do you have a list of all the functions you would like to rename or is this a sweeping lets just change everything so it matches and deprecate all the old st

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > You are measuring the wrong cost. The cost of adding new names is to > people writing code: > > - additional confusion for new users about why everything has two names > and which they should use > - extra effort for new developers

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Mar 4, 2015 9:18 AM, "Rowan Collins" wrote: > > On 3 March 2015 20:08:45 GMT, Lester Caine wrote: > >The piece of the jigsaw I am missing is at which point does it become > >better to create a new extension for a complex object rather than > >simply > >writing a set of PHP classes? > > A good

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3 March 2015 20:08:45 GMT, Lester Caine wrote: >The piece of the jigsaw I am missing is at which point does it become >better to create a new extension for a complex object rather than >simply >writing a set of PHP classes? A good question, wrappers can achieve a lot here. An extension has two

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3 March 2015 18:54:56 GMT, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >Hi Rowan, > >On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Rowan Collins >wrote: > >> Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 03/03/2015 04:01: >> >>> Hi Lester, >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Lester Caine >wrote: >>> >>> On 02/03/15 23:54, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03/03/15 18:54, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > More or less, we do need maintenance, otherwise phpversion() will remain > inconsistent forever. IMO. Is there any reason why a few peripheral functions like that can't simply remain as is? ADDING an object with what I will simply describe as 'the new style

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 03/03/2015 04:01: > >> Hi Lester, >> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Lester Caine wrote: >> >> On 02/03/15 23:54, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >>> This looks awful... just cannot put up with... >>> Rasmu

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Yasuo Ohgaki wrote on 03/03/2015 04:01: Hi Lester, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Lester Caine wrote: On 02/03/15 23:54, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: This looks awful... just cannot put up with... Rasmus has already answered, but are you prposing to rewrite -> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/ma

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Michael, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 3:03 PM, Michael Schuett wrote: > I can't think of any good use case for a bulk import outside of laziness. > Any good IDE will handle this for you and if you are importing as \ then > why don't you just not namespace them in the first place. Bulk import is n

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

I can't think of any good use case for a bulk import outside of laziness. Any good IDE will handle this for you and if you are importing as \ then why don't you just not namespace them in the first place. On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Stanislav Malyshev wrote: > Hi! > > > I would love to have

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi! > I would love to have namespace that could be imported like > > namespace \php\7\function\* as \; // Import all functions to \ > namespace \php\7\function\* as \; Please no. When we designed namespaces, we explicitly omitted bulk imports, and the reasons that were true then are still true n

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Lester, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:19 AM, Lester Caine wrote: > On 02/03/15 23:54, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > This looks awful... just cannot put up with... > Rasmus has already answered, but are you prposing to rewrite -> > http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html I know we used

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 02/03/15 23:54, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > This looks awful... just cannot put up with... Rasmus has already answered, but are you prposing to rewrite -> http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rasmus, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:03 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: > These come from the underlying libaries. You can type "man dcgettext" or > "man bind_textdomain_codeset" at your Linux command line and learn a lot > about how these work. Plus, if you are a C dev, much like strlen(), > these are

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03/02/2015 03:54 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Markus, Larry and Rowan, > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Markus Fischer wrote: > >> On 03.03.15 00:10, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >>> I would love to have new & clean APIs. >>> >>> Please think my proposal as legacy API cleanups. Many of candidates w

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Markus, Larry and Rowan, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Markus Fischer wrote: > On 03.03.15 00:10, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > > I would love to have new & clean APIs. > > > > Please think my proposal as legacy API cleanups. Many of candidates will > > remain > > without CORDING_STANDARSDS confirm

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 03.03.15 00:10, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > I would love to have new & clean APIs. > > Please think my proposal as legacy API cleanups. Many of candidates will > remain > without CORDING_STANDARSDS confirmed names almost forever. This is what > I would like to improve. If you don't care about legacy

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3/2/15 5:10 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: I would love to have new & clean APIs. Please think my proposal as legacy API cleanups. Many of candidates will remain without CORDING_STANDARSDS confirmed names almost forever. This is what I would like to improve. If you don't care about legacy stuff cle

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 02/03/2015 22:59, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: Hi Rowan, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:50 AM, Rowan Collins > wrote: On 02/03/2015 22:36, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: I like scalar objects, but it does not resolve that PHP has non standard function name

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Larry, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 8:02 AM, Larry Garfield wrote: > On 3/2/15 4:50 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: > >> On 02/03/2015 22:36, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: >> >>> I like scalar objects, but it does not resolve that PHP has non standard >>> function names. >>> It does not change old names, therefore

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > Hi Rowan, > > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Rowan Collins > wrote: > >> The issue here is PHP will keep inconsistent names forever or not. >>> IMHO. >>> >> >> Have you noticed the slight contradiction here? You want to get rid of the >> inco

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

On 3/2/15 4:50 PM, Rowan Collins wrote: On 02/03/2015 22:36, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: I like scalar objects, but it does not resolve that PHP has non standard function names. It does not change old names, therefore it's impossible to resolve issue. This is the reason why I'm proposing while I like sc

Re: [PHP-DEV] Consistent function names

Hi Rowan, On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:50 AM, Rowan Collins wrote: > On 02/03/2015 22:36, Yasuo Ohgaki wrote: > >> I like scalar objects, but it does not resolve that PHP has non standard >> function names. >> It does not change old names, therefore it's impossible to resolve issue. >> This is the r

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