Hi Doug,
Thanks for considering my proposal. I see that I've not done the best
job documenting the problems of the status quo, and that even with that,
my solution may not suffice to address them.
At 2024-12-20T10:00:25-0500, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
> > * People may discover that quotation marks
> so that English users get \[lq] and \[rq] while German users
> get \[Bq] and \[lq] etc.
That is terrible advice. While the "English left quote" in
Times is identical to the "German right quote" in Times, this
is not true for Courier. It would be much better to define
"German left quote" and
Hi Alex,
At 2024-12-20T12:11:00+0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2024 at 09:31:49PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > For some vendors, the end of the Unix Wars meant the end of
> > development. Lay off all the engineers and collect rents from
> > locked-in enterprise deployme
Hi onf,
At 2024-12-20T13:59:13+0100, onf wrote:
> > [...] Before the BSD community decided upon the performative
> > wokeness of rabid allergies to copyleft and (at OpenBSD at least)
> > C++.
>
> I kinda get where they are coming from with C++, though. Last time I
> tried patching groff, I was f
On Sat Dec 21, 2024 at 1:29 AM CET, Tadziu Hoffmann wrote:
> > From that message I get the impression that your claim of
> > \[Bq] and \[lq] being "terrible advice" was quite overstated;
> > it seems to come down to a small number of bad typefaces.
>
> Are they, though? Even in English, there exis
> From that message I get the impression that your claim of
> \[Bq] and \[lq] being "terrible advice" was quite overstated;
> it seems to come down to a small number of bad typefaces.
Are they, though? Even in English, there exist different styles
of quote characters, as exemplified by IBM's vs
Hi onf,
At 2024-12-20T14:15:43+0100, onf wrote:
> On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 3:45 AM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Yes. I think we could do more to encourage people to understand the
> > availability of the grout format as a resource on more occasions, in
> > a similar way that Dave Kemper fina
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 10:54 PM CET, onf wrote:
> Let's say I want to check out the need method of curdiv.
> To do that, I first need to figure out what object it is.
> Searching for curdiv eventually reveals it being declared
> in div.cpp as type `diversion`. Searching for diversion::need
> then f
On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 4:15 PM onf wrote:
> Does it have any other use nowadays besides regression testing?
The -a option is invaluable for testing in general, such as when
debugging some typesetting issues. In
http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?55278#comment0 some other uses I gave
are letting the
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 2:38 PM CET, Tadziu Hoffmann wrote:
> > so that English users get \[lq] and \[rq] while German users
> > get \[Bq] and \[lq] etc.
>
> That is terrible advice. While the "English left quote" in
> Times is identical to the "German right quote" in Times, this
> is not true for
Hi onf,
On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 02:21:00AM +0100, onf wrote:
> Hi Alejandro,
>
> On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 12:39 AM CET, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > I prefer \[lq] and \[rq] over .QS and .QE. BTW, that's that '*' mean?
>
> That's string interpolation syntax. From groff(7):
>
> Strings
> gr
Hi Branden,
On Thu, Dec 19, 2024 at 09:31:49PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > I prefer \[lq] and \[rq] over .QS and .QE.
>
> If everybody just used groff (please feel free to start!), I wouldn't
> bother with this proposal, for that precise reason. My proposal is
> stimulated in part by e
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 12:11 PM CET, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> [...] As GNU make(1) maintainer says (IIRC),
> don't write portable Makefiles, write GNU Makefiles, and port GNU
> make(1).
That sounds like terrible advice. :)
Hi Branden,
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 4:57 AM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2024-12-20T02:21:00+0100, onf wrote:
> > I assume the reason for using the strings `lq` and `rq` instead of
> > characters of the same name is that the strings can be defined
> > differently based on the current locale
> * People may discover that quotation marks are properly available in
> the man(7) language, a fact that has been obscure for 45 years. (The
> `\*(lq` and `\*(rq` syntax has been available since day one [1979]. I
> suspect these failed because man page authors who weren't already
> pract
Hi Branden,
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 3:45 AM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2024-12-19T22:48:41+0100, onf wrote:
> > > The number of people who read GNU troff output ("grout"), whether
> > > with their eyeballs or with a program they've written, is *tiny*.
> >
> > If that's the case, I wonder
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 8:18 PM CET, Tadziu Hoffmann wrote:
> > In any case, as far as I know, \[Bq] and \[lq] is the way to
> > obtain German-style quotes in groff. If you know of a better
> > way, tell me, please.
>
> We had a discussion on this topic some time ago on this list, see
>
> https://
Hi Branden,
On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 11:42:38AM GMT, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > As GNU make(1) maintainer says (IIRC), don't write portable Makefiles,
> > write GNU Makefiles, and port GNU make(1).
>
> These days the maintainer is Paul Smith. I don't know if he said that
> originally,
Here's
Hi Branden,
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 7:45 PM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2024-12-20T14:15:43+0100, onf wrote:
> > On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 3:45 AM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > Yes. I think we could do more to encourage people to understand the
> > > availability of the grout format
>> neither of which exists in groff tmac.s.
> I assume you mean "an.tmac",
Actually, I meant s.tmac--and even had that in a draft. But s.tmac is
utterly irrelevant--a horrible mental misconnect, burned in from
almost exclusive use of -ms.
Doug
> In any case, as far as I know, \[Bq] and \[lq] is the way to
> obtain German-style quotes in groff. If you know of a better
> way, tell me, please.
We had a discussion on this topic some time ago on this list, see
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/groff/2007-08/msg00115.html
The problem
Hi Branden,
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 7:13 PM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2024-12-20T13:59:13+0100, onf wrote:
> > [...]
> > I kinda get where they are coming from with C++, though. Last time I
> > tried patching groff, I was fascinated by the stark difference between
> > groff's and neatro
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