Hi Branden,
On Fri Dec 20, 2024 at 7:13 PM CET, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> At 2024-12-20T13:59:13+0100, onf wrote:
> > [...]
> > I kinda get where they are coming from with C++, though. Last time I
> > tried patching groff, I was fascinated by the stark difference between
> > groff's and neatroff's source code.
>
> [...]
> groff was written fast and saw rapid and widespread uptake. As noted,
> even BSD absorbed it. I don't wish to take anything away from the
> magnitude of James Clark's achievement in cranking out a near-total
> replacement for Unix troff, including macro packages, preprocessors, and
> output drivers, plus documentation for all the extensions he added,
> in...what, a year and half, tops?
Fair point.
> Neatroff is not, as far as I can tell, nearly as widely used and it has
> taken longer to gestate. These are not flaws--just differences.
>
> I take code readability seriously. My first impression of any part of
> groff that I haven't dealt with before is frequently "okay, what the
> hell is this doing?"
>
> My very first impression of neatroff's code when when I first looked at
> it a few years ago was, "gosh, that's some smooth stuff." Neatroff is a
> big winner here.
Yeah. I feel like a lot of development effort could be spared if groff
had the sort of code base that neatroff has. It's a pity it doesn't get
the amount of attention that groff or mandoc is getting.
> [...]
> > but I feel like the language also has an influence; for instance, the
> > presence of objects, each with its own methods, definitely made
> > groff's source code harder to navigate for me.
>
> This doesn't _have_ to be the case. But there are warty bits for sure.
> [...]
I am not sure about that. Last time I tried messing around with groff's
internals was when I was suggesting making .ne break line. Searching
revealed that it's handled by the function need_space in div.cpp.
Its source code looks like this:
void need_space()
{
vunits n;
if (!has_arg() || !get_vunits(&n, 'v'))
n = curenv->get_vertical_spacing();
while (!tok.is_newline() && !tok.is_eof())
tok.next();
curdiv->need(n);
tok.next();
}
Let's say I want to check out the need method of curdiv.
To do that, I first need to figure out what object it is.
Searching for curdiv eventually reveals it being declared
in div.cpp as type `diversion`. Searching for diversion::need
then finally reveals the desired method. If I chose something
other than curdiv, I would have to figure out which header
files declares it to figure out where to search for its
definition.
In C, instead of curenv->get_vertical_spacing or curdiv->need,
one would have env_get_vertical_spacing or div_need, so rather
than having to figure out what kind of object am I dealing with,
I would search for those functions directly.
I'm not saying it's an insurmountable obstacle by any means,
but it's annoying. The fact that groff's code style doesn't make
function- I mean method declarations easily greppable doesn't
help, either. What I'm trying to get at is that in a good C code
base, if I wanted to locate the definition of function div_need,
I would simply run:
grep -En '^div_need' $(find -name '*.c')
in the root directory and be done instead of having to dig through
header files to figure out what object am I even looking for.
~ onf
