Hello All,
What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
and accountability but also to ensure compliance
with our participation guidelines? I know some channels have decided to
public log on their own starting this year
but we do not have an across the board policy.
O
On 2015-01-23 3:43 PM, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
Hello All,
What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
and accountability but also to ensure compliance
with our participation guidelines? I know some channels have decided to
public log on their own starting this year
On 01/23/2015 03:43 PM, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
Hello All,
What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
and accountability but also to ensure compliance
with our participation guidelines? I know some channels have decided to
public log on their own starting this year
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:50 PM, fantasai
wrote:
> On 01/23/2015 03:43 PM, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
>> and accountability but also to ensure compliance
>> with our participation guidelines? I know some
Does pervasive surveillance really equate with transparency and
accountability these days?
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
> and accountability but also to ensure compliance
> w
I would certainly not equate logging irc to pervasive surveillance using
that rationale we should shut down our public mailing lists, make meetings
private and shutdown Air Mozilla
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> Does pervasive surveillance really equate with transparency an
There is a distinct difference between how irc channels and public mailing
lists are used.
For a simple example contrast the personal content/water cooler talk that
makes it's way into burnt electrons and whether or not users infuse that
degree of interpersonal communication into mailing lists.
A
On Friday 2015-01-23 12:43 -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> What does everyone think about logging irc channels
I support logging public channels. I think it will make
participation easier and help communication, both across time zones
and for those new to the project (who can learn what was said
And FWIW many people are already logging through their bouncers and clients
already... I would bet most channels if not all are logged by individuals
already. So all I am asking is if Mozilla should log and make logs
available publicly for the benefit of the community.
I have scrollback on my boun
I full expect that the vast majority of our irc channels are already
logged, some obviously, others maybe a bit less so. Making the fact
that everything that's said on our irc channels is public official and
known seems like a good thing to me.
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Benjamin Kerensa wr
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
> And FWIW many people are already logging through their bouncers and clients
> already... I would bet most channels if not all are logged by individuals
> already. So all I am asking is if Mozilla should log and make logs
> available publ
Not to beat a dead horse here, but again, there is a difference between
"This is a public service, that might be logged" and "This is a public
service that is logged and published."
One is a notice that people might be logging, the other is the explicit,
long term collection of data about users, w
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> While I agree that there might be value, I don't think that value would be
> worth the negative feedback from the change in perception that this logging
> would trigger.
I disagree. I think the benefits are real, and that you're vastly
overstat
I received a message off list responding to my comments. Rather than
duplicating a message intended off-list (ironically referencing the need to
avoid private discussions :D), I will summarize the points and address them.
1. irc logging is not collecting the data of users
2. the goal is to archiv
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> Not to beat a dead horse here, but again, there is a difference between
> "This is a public service, that might be logged" and "This is a public
> service that is logged and published."
>
> One is a notice that people might be logging, the othe
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> I received a message off list responding to my comments. Rather than
> duplicating a message intended off-list (ironically referencing the need to
> avoid private discussions :D), I will summarize the points and address them.
>
> 1. irc loggin
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 04:34:16PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
>
> Can I ask if you think mailing lists should be private?
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
I don't feel this is a fair comparison and whether a mailing list is
I should perhaps clarify, though, that I don't really think there's a
need for a project-wide policy to enforce that channels must be
logged, and that's probably what Yvan is reacting strongly to. Most of
the important public IRC channels are already being publicly logged,
as mentioned, and where t
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Ravi Pina wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 04:34:16PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> >
> > Can I ask if you think mailing lists should be private?
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
>
> I don
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Gavin Sharp wrote:
> I should perhaps clarify, though, that I don't really think there's a
> need for a project-wide policy to enforce that channels must be
> logged, and that's probably what Yvan is reacting strongly to. Most of
> the important public IRC channel
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 05:10:07PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Ravi Pina wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 04:34:16PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> > >
> > > Can I ask if you think mailing lists
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Ravi Pina wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 04:34:16PM -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
>> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
>> >
>> > Can I ask if you think mailing lists should be pr
On Friday 2015-01-23 17:08 -0800, Gavin Sharp wrote:
> I should perhaps clarify, though, that I don't really think there's a
> need for a project-wide policy to enforce that channels must be
> logged, and that's probably what Yvan is reacting strongly to. Most of
> the important public IRC channels
I like logging but not so I can point at someone and shout "Gotcha!" Rather,
I've set up logging on project-related channels mostly as a source of free
documentation, via web search: we'd just stick the text files on a web server
and let Google pick them up. The members of the channel loved it.
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Gavin Sharp wrote:
>
>> I should perhaps clarify, though, that I don't really think there's a
>> need for a project-wide policy to enforce that channels must be
>> logged, and that's probably what Yva
>From a communication systems design point of view (using the psychological
definitions and not technical definitions of those words), what's important
in these choices is that the privacy expectations of the people using a
medium are not violated. If people expect a communication to be private or
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
> and accountability but also to ensure compliance
> with our participation guidelines? I know some channels have decided to
> public log on their ow
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Benjamin Kerensa > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Gavin Sharp
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I should perhaps clarify, though, that I don't really think there's a
>>> need for a project-wide policy t
You can ask glob to add logbot to it (http://logs.glob.uno/). It can "go
away at any time", sure, but that doesn't seem like a big deal in practice.
Gavin
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:29 PM, L. David Baron wrote:
> On Friday 2015-01-23 17:08 -0800, Gavin Sharp wrote:
> > I should perhaps clarify,
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Kyle Huey wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Benjamin Kerensa
> wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
>> and accountability but also to ensure compliance
>> with our participation guidelines?
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Kyle Huey wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 4:43 AM, Benjamin Kerensa
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> What does everyone think about logging irc channels for both transparency
>>> and accountab
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
> Right and my proposal is to have global policy including which channels
> must be exempt due to sensitive discussions (I can think of a handful
> myself) and then create a process for starting logging and opting out of
> channel logging b
No, the scope is clearly stated with "Mozilla’s Data Privacy Principles
continue to inform how we build our products and services, manage user
data, and select and interact with partners – while shaping our public
policy and advocacy work.", from the blog post.
IRC logs *are* user data. irc.mozil
It can be if we want to achieve the goal of having a central place the
project and users and downstream partners can refer back to. Community
hosted things are not a guaranteed thing while MoCo hosted infra has a
better chance of longevity.
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Gavin Sharp wrote:
>
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
> No, the scope is clearly stated with "Mozilla’s Data Privacy Principles
> continue to inform how we build our products and services, manage user
> data, and select and interact with partners – while shaping our public
> policy and advocacy work
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Benjamin Kerensa
wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 5:51 PM, Yvan Boily wrote:
>
>> No, the scope is clearly stated with "Mozilla’s Data Privacy Principles
>> continue to inform how we build our products and services, manage user
>> data, and select and interact wi
On Friday 2015-01-23 14:14 -0800, L. David Baron wrote:
> On Friday 2015-01-23 12:43 -0800, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> > What does everyone think about logging irc channels
>
> I support logging public channels. I think it will make
> participation easier and help communication, both across time z
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