[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 2014-09-21, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 2:58 AM, Grant Edwards > wrote: > >> On 2014-09-20, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded systems which are never going to have the resources needed to run syst

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sep 21, 2014 5:10 PM, "Tom H" wrote: > > On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > > > Point is he's trying to paint the picture that systemd folks rattle on and > > on about its speed, but they don't. > > The speed argument/anti-argument can be traced back to Lennart's fi

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > Point is he's trying to paint the picture that systemd folks rattle on and > on about its speed, but they don't. The speed argument/anti-argument can be traced back to Lennart's first blog post on systemd (IIRC "rethinking pid 1") whe

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 2:58 AM, Grant Edwards > wrote: > >> On 2014-09-20, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> >> >> The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded >> >> systems which are never going to have the resource

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 2:58 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2014-09-20, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > >> The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded > >> systems which are never going to have the resources needed to run > >> systemd. > > > > You are mistaken. > > No, I am not.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > Am 18.09.2014 um 01:24 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:11 AM, James wrote: >> >> Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: >> > You're the only one in this thread that's imposing on everyone >> > to produce anyth

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2014-09-20, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > >>> The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded >>> systems which are never going to have the resources needed to run >>> systemd. >> >> You are mistaken. > > No, I am not. > Gu

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 2014-09-20, Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded >> systems which are never going to have the resources needed to run >> systemd. > > You are mistaken. No, I am not. > I've helped a friend debug problems on a couple devices running a >

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann < > volkerar...@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Am 18.09.2014 um 01:24 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: >> >> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:11 AM, James wrote: >> >>> Mark David Dumlao gmai

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:24 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann < volkerar...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Am 18.09.2014 um 01:24 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:11 AM, James wrote: > >> Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: >> > You're the only one in this thread that's imposing on

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 12:28 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann < volkerar...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > I am deluded? Who again posted systemd propaganda again? > > Point is he's trying to paint the picture that systemd folks rattle on and > on about its speed, but they don't. > > > except when they do.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Am 20.09.2014 um 16:08 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel > mailto:a...@alectenharmsel.com>> wrote: > > > On 09/17/2014 10:40 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > > Fact is if it's _you_ that seems to give a tweet about systemd > speed, > > s

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Am 18.09.2014 um 01:24 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:11 AM, James > wrote: > > Mark David Dumlao gmail.com > writes: > > You're the only one in this thread that's imposing on everyone > > to produce anything.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2014-09-18, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > > Mark David Dumlao wrote: > >> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. > >> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it > >> took since you first

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > > On 09/17/2014 10:40 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > > > Fact is if it's _you_ that seems to give a tweet about systemd speed, > > so it's on _you_ to measure it, I don't really care what you think. The > > fact that you think pid1's spe

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 2014-09-18, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Grant Edwards > wrote: >> The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded >> systems which are never going to have the resources needed to run >> systemd. > > How about containers? When I launch mariadb I'd pre

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 19/09/14 03:18, Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2014-09-18, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: >> Mark David Dumlao wrote: >>> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. >>> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it >>> took since you first posted in this threa

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: > The only Linux systems where I care about boot time are embedded > systems which are never going to have the resources needed to run > systemd. How about containers? When I launch mariadb I'd prefer that it happen in milliseconds, not tens

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 2014-09-18, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. >> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it >> took since you first posted in this thread till now you could have >> measured several

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:54:49 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: > The fact is among those actually contributing to projects like openrc, > udev, eudev, and systemd everybody tends to get along just fine. > There is plenty of interest in finding common ground and collaborating > so that anybody switching f

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 18/09/2014 10:07, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:19:21 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > >>> Is systemd starting to encompass too much? I think so, but who cares? >>> If we want an init manager that reads systemd-like files but doesn't >>> do anything else (hostnamectl, logging, udev

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:19:21 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Is systemd starting to encompass too much? I think so, but who cares? > > If we want an init manager that reads systemd-like files but doesn't > > do anything else (hostnamectl, logging, udev, etc.), I guess we'll > > have to make one.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 18/09/2014 02:12, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. >> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it >> took since you first posted in this thread till now you could have >> measured sev

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 18/09/14 07:52, Samuli Suominen wrote: > Notably Gentoo has never used entire SysV, only the init part, not the > /etc.d/rc.d part I meant /etc/rc.d of course. Typing error. Sorry.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 18/09/14 03:12, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. >> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it >> took since you first posted in this thread till now you could have >> measured seve

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On 09/17/2014 10:40 PM, Mark David Dumlao wrote: > Fact is if it's _you_ that seems to give a tweet about systemd speed, > so it's on _you_ to measure it, I don't really care what you think. The > fact that you think pid1's speed or resource usage might be a big deal > is very indicative on how b

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Alec Ten Harmsel > wrote: > > Mark David Dumlao wrote: > >> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. > >> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it > >> to

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > Mark David Dumlao wrote: >> The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. >> If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it >> took since you first posted in this thread till now you could have >>

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Mark David Dumlao wrote: > The code is out there. Freely available. Both systemd and sysvinit. > If you wanted to measure both, you could, literally, in the time it > took since you first posted in this thread till now you could have > measured several times and left mean comments about whichever >

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:11 AM, James wrote: > Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: > > You're the only one in this thread that's imposing on everyone > > to produce anything. You're the only one in this thread that > > SHOULD be producing anything. That's how open source works and > > that's h

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:18 PM, James wrote: > Rich Freeman gentoo.org> writes: >>On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:28 PM, James >>wrote: >> >>> Linus should make a clear, leadership statement that there will >>> always be a path for folks to use another mechanism besides systemd >>> in the linux kerne

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreasonable? > > work on publicly available data > > Ah, here is some of the tesing you are referring to?http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-March/017570.html > My position is that you're an idiot and a t

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann < volkerar...@googlemail.com> wrote: > Am 17.09.2014 um 23:42 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: > > > On Sep 18, 2014 5:36 AM, "James" wrote: > > > > Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: > > > > > > > > Publish perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreason

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Am 17.09.2014 um 23:42 schrieb Mark David Dumlao: > > > On Sep 18, 2014 5:36 AM, "James" > wrote: > > > > Mark David Dumlao gmail.com > writes: > > > > > > > > Publish perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreasonable? > > > The classic open source answe

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 5:46 AM, James wrote: > Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: > > > > > Publish perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreasonable? > > > The classic open source answer to being told to do a lot of > > work on publicly available data > > Ah, here is some of the tesing you are refer

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: > > Publish perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreasonable? > The classic open source answer to being told to do a lot of > work on publicly available data Ah, here is some of the tesing you are referring to? http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-deve

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sep 18, 2014 5:36 AM, "James" wrote: > > Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: > > > > > Publish perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreasonable? > > The classic open source answer to being told to do a lot of > > work on publicly available data is > > I'm sorry, I must have missed your link to the p

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Mark David Dumlao gmail.com> writes: > > Publish perfomanced metrics; Choice; Unreasonable? > The classic open source answer to being told to do a lot of > work on publicly available data is I'm sorry, I must have missed your link to the published data? Sure it exist and I have just missed it?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Sep 18, 2014 5:19 AM, "James" wrote: > > Rich Freeman gentoo.org> writes: > > > > Uh, the only thing the Linux kernel does is spawn a single process as > > PID 1 and offer a VERY STABLE system call interface for that and > > future processes to make requests. Nobody is going to break sysvinit

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Rich Freeman gentoo.org> writes: > Uh, the only thing the Linux kernel does is spawn a single process as > PID 1 and offer a VERY STABLE system call interface for that and > future processes to make requests. Nobody is going to break sysvinit > if that happens to be the thing you tell Linux to

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:28 PM, James wrote: > Linus should make a clear, leadership statement that there will > always be a path for folks to use another mechanism besides systemd > in the linux kernel; This does not have to be a systemd vs cgroups > discussion, but it being presented this way.

[gentoo-user] Re: [OT] Linus Torvalds on systemd

Canek Peláez Valdés gmail.com> writes: > This is highly off-topic, and systemd-related, so if you don't want > your breakfast with a healthy amount of flames, skip it. I think this is very much "on Topic". > iTWire posted an interview with Linus Torvalds[1], where the Big > Penguin himself gav