"? Am I making the
posting choices for the other participants? Hardly. How then can it be
possible for me to kill the thread, when it's always possible to ignore my
"essay" and the resulting subthread, if desired, and continue posting away
on the more "useful" subthre
ctures where the split KDE builds now take more than twice as
long to build, and the arch is slow as it is so we're talking a week
build-time instead of 3-4 days, but they are being worked on, and if all
goes well...
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"Every nonfre
ing stuff, a revdep-rebuild is recommended.
As others said, please move futher discussion to either user or desktop.
I don't look at user, but I'm a regular over in desktop, where KDE
questions are happily answered, as it's certainly part of desktop.
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me.
As with Donnie and the others, only user to dev, I wish you well. May our
paths meet again!
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27;t really fit. (Note that
INSTALL_MASK files are still created, so someone INSTALL_MASKING will want
to negate the appropriate USE flags as well, to avoid the non-trivial
merge-time processing case.)
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"Every nonfree program has a l
ng that
matches INSTALL_MASK. Thus, you can stick /usr/doc and /usr/share/doc in
it, and snag anything that would be installed to them.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Rich
,
altho the .0.1-r2 version above is getting close to 30 days in ~arch now,
tho I don't know its bug status.
I often check the portage tree changelogs and Gentoo bugzilla site status
of particular packages that I'm interested in. I'm glad the info is
available, as it has proven usef
y had chosen, drake, for that very
reason -- no simple method for listing all the Mandrake
system tools. Gentoo has it right with the e* precedent. I believe we
should continue to follow it.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
Chris Gianelloni posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
excerpted below, on Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:20:35 -0500:
> On Mon, 2006-03-20 at 12:37 -0700, Duncan wrote:
>> Agreed if keeping the old name with a gentoo prefix/suffix is chosen.
>> However, nearly all Gentoo system tools ar
ecessitate a package rename if the contrib vs. full-supported
status changed. This aspect could be debated if the idea in general gains
enough favor to consider a glep or the like.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if yo
ocal copy of that overlay simply omitted and
a reference to that local copy, not the global instance, assumed, when
mentioning putting it in make.conf?
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your
e a look at the CC list on this
(resolved) one on AMD64 performance patches to glibc, for instance:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100289 . How could voting make
the interest any more evident than all those CCs, and the CCs actually
continue to be useful after the "vote" has been regis
overlay.
> Beside that "man layman" explains pretty much of it's innerwork.
> PS:There's an article in "gentoo-wiki.com" with a list of overlays.
Thanks. That's now double-underlined on my TODO list.
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&quo
al terms, with a link to a forum for discussion. The
forum infrastructure would then provide the ability for users to link
to various overlays, and take care of any abuse or DMCA takedown notices
as it already does. That would keep Gentoo's involvement legal and
above-board.
--
Dunc
t I think the usual die
unless some exotic I_WANT_TO_BREAK_MY_GENTOO_SYSTEM_WITH_A_L33T_GCC
variable is set, with an appropriately dire warning in the die, covers
that eventuality.
The rest of the toolchain... Kernel, I've never run into a problem with
support because I choose to grab my kern
cessary)
whatever their chosen overlay is using, and not worry about the others.
Advanced users and devs able to deal with the potential conflicts of
multiple overlays shouldn't have difficulty managing multiple version
control systems, and they'll be the only ones that have to worry abo
anges to trace down and make, before it would work, thus the
problem, since either one alone wasn't enough.
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http://ww
, as they consider you worth the time
/to/ answer -- you got past their ruthless efficiency filter. So... you
can read back thru the answers and see who considered you worthy of a real
answer and who didn't, and the above might help explain why. =8^)
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ppropriate
speed), but I didn't realize Gentoo KDE-stable was /that/ far behind!
Point well made!
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http://www
Donnie Berkholz posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted below, on
Mon, 03 Apr 2006 23:16:07 -0700:
> Duncan wrote:
>> The Gentoo-desktop list is lower volume and generally where I ask
>> (developer level) questions about anything so related, KDE, GNOME,
>> burning CD/D
king temporarily until it and all the
pieces it depends on are upgraded as well, but most stuff continues to
work well enough to continue to use. Just don't go filing bugs on anything
that breaks until the whole set is updated.
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"Eve
gs or filterflags, as often, the condition they are
correcting for doesn't affect amd64, yet unfortunately, the calls aren't
conditioned on arch as they would be in a perfect world with access to
full testing on all archs right away.
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&quo
e announcements that include
"has passed a..."!
Gave me pause for a moment, there!
Welcome! (From a non-dev, just enthused there's someone else to be
developing packages for me to play with... and that you have /not/ "passed
away", as I first read! =8^)
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seful, but only if you make it so!
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be to find someone that could dedicate
a bit of time each week (or once or twice a month in any case, it doesn't
have to be /every/ week) to such a feature. Having someone routinely
responsible for it will take the pressure off the regular GWN editors, and
should encourage the necessary resear
s no point forcing them to have to clean out the
>> Gentoo brand, before they actually can use it.
>
> He said he wanted to make it easy, not forcing it. Or am I mistaken?
Something like a metapackage that deps on gentoo-xcursor and similar
packages, maybe? That would unify installa
to something, and it'll look better.
Maybe make him the documentation and help section icon? Or the icon for
contact information (Gentoo developer listing, etc)? Something.
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g the flag when I switch gccs, because the profile code
kills it for me! =8^) The first time I noticed it, I wondered what kind
of magic the ebuild was doing. Then I saw it on a couple others, and then
happened across it while reviewing the profile. It works! =8^)
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l testing with little trouble, if necessary.)
It's impressive enough to have me eagerly awaiting the next rc. Good work
both here and upstream! Is the proposed schedule on the wiki at
desktop.org still valid? A couple more RCs, and release in about a month
if all goes well?
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Mart Raudsepp posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted
below, on Thu, 20 Apr 2006 17:23:12 +0300:
> on xorg.fd.org wiki.
Doh... I always call it desktop.org, it's /free/desktop.org! One
would think with a sig such as mine I'd remember that! Thanks!
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Donnie Berkholz posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted below, on
Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:43:43 -0700:
> Duncan wrote:
>> Is it worth posting bugs on these yet? Gentoo or upstream? Any tracker
>> bug to point me at? (I have the binpkgs so can remerge them for
>> add
ject to immediate reversal upon the whims of a single QA
team member, without making it impotent in certain cases due to a
requirement for a unanimous decision. Reason in the middle ground?
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Duncan posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted below,
on Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:30:41 -0700:
> The idea in either case is to minimize the possibility of something
> occurring without enough of a majority opinion to make the decision look
> arbitrary or subject to immediate reversal up
y idea, which may or may not resonate enough to take root but
I think it's worth debating, anyway. For myself, I became aware of a
word interpretation inconsistency I wasn't aware of, thus gaining insight
into myself. Maybe it's me that's out of sync. =8^)
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tree unmaintained
packages as they are found to be broken."?
If I'm not mistaken, that makes the meaning crystal clear. (Maybe
"cleaning up /or/ removing"?)
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ree
times (or twice?) the source tarball size and at least 10 MB, and then dev
discretion is advised?
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d
browser, icon and theming complete as upstream, instead of the Gentoo
version with various (unapproved upstream) Gentoo patches.
In theory, people should read the USE description, but I don't think we
need a repeat of the gtk/gtk2 confusion. =8^P
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Chris Gianelloni posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
excerpted below, on Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:27:38 -0400:
> I'm sorry, but do your friends call you Duncan? I'll leave it at that.
Who, me?No, safe to say, /not/ me.
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"Eve
at copy trickery, try this:
emerge -NuDv $(cat /path/to/listfile)
Again, the usual pretend/ask situation applies, and --oneshot should be
added since you are updating specific packages from the command line.
Also consider the effect of the -D and -N flags, as depending on your
exact needs, --newuse
sain' that's when the working system gets
appreciated) and we can't simply take it for granted any longer. =8^P
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
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ebuilds weren't there. As I said, I
left Mandrake over such things. However, they /are/ there. The choice to
merge them or not is the user/admin's. If they chose not to do so, why
are they then blaming Gentoo for their own choice?
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into something else -- /not/ the Gentoo we know. I doubt you'll
find much support for significant change among Gentoo devs /or/ users,
because after all, if they didn't like it, they'd not have chosen Gentoo
in the first place, as that's one of the defining characteristics that
ir newer, mostly stable programs, while everyone who /really/ wants
stable doesn't end up with the risk of stabilizing the package too fast.
Of course, note that package.keywords works both ways. Folks running
~arch as their regular keyword can set specific packages to arch (stable)
in package.
s in parallel to or occurs after the 30-day stabilization
of portage 2.1.
In any case, given his statement above and the events from portage-devel,
a reasonably safe prediction should be that they'll both be stable by the
end of the (northern hemisphere) summer, with a target of mid-summer.
--
le piece by piece. Period.
Can't. Period." Indeed, in this case, "Can't. Period." is the absolute
truth, to the the point that to to a developer, no more need be said, as
it's simply uncontemplatable. Take those assumptions away, and there's
simply noth
hat the different
alternatives exist is a sign of a healthy and vital free/libra and open
source software community, not a sign of a stagnating one! Make it the
best you can, because those of us still with Gentoo at the moment will
certainly be doing our best to make Gentoo the best we can. =8^)
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uestion
of just what it has to do with anything. Also, maybe a caption on the
page. Larry is confused! Or something similar. If there's such a
caption now, I missed it too.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use
hat Znurt isn't ours,
but is used by permission, etc, etc (I've not looked at it for awhile,
perhaps it's already covered?). Also, just in case it ever comes up, I
don't believe we've been given /exclusive/ use of Znurt, so we /should/ be
aware that drobbins may at some t
d, and 7.2 would be the new target. Whatever solution
Gentoo comes up with is therefore now known to be needed at least for 7.0
and 7.1. Hopefully, by 7.2, the solution will be included upstream.
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) could be RESOLVED, LATER, or
RESOLVED, UPSTREAM (given that there's a fair chance it'll be fixed for
7.2), if desired, or left open, depending on what's easiest to track.
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;m Steve from Utah. Lots of Linux users
> out here, and I'm just one of them."
Glad it isn't /all/ SCO out there!(I'm in AZ, just as "out there" I
suppose, and not far from you.)
Welcome, tho I'm not a dev/staffer myself.
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ndled. If masked packages
aren't official, and ebuilds that require features only in paludis are
masked as far as portage is concerned, then that checkbox can be checked
off.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you us
ed (on amd64 we add a profile.bashrc that dies
> unless something like I_WANT_TO_BREAK_MY_SYSTEM=1 is set).
... And the proposal included a deprecated file. By that definition,
therefore, the profile would be unsupported, and the point you were
making disappears.
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should exist as more than the code of a single implementation. A standard
that doesn't exist as such cannot be a reasonable requirement for
support.
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the need for the separate profiles,
the virtual/portage idea seems worthy of consideration, as others have
pointed out, quite independent of what other choices are eventually
offered. pkgcore or something else could find it equally helpful, and it
won't hurt to build in that flexibility now.
Stephen Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED],
excerpted below, on Wed, 17 May 2006 17:56:22 +0100:
> On Wed, 17 May 2006 16:28:21 +0000 (UTC) "Duncan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> Herein lies the crux of the problem, IMO. Regardless
bate is simply not enough, and looks like you are just trying to ram it
thru without /letting/ there be debate. Please reconsider at least on the
timing.
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ins undefined,
there WILL be some unavoidable instability as it's impossible to properly
define what is allowed and what not, beyond what works with whatever
package manager one might be using.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord
problem where there isn't one. I believe the point was just to
give credit where credit was due, acknowledging the hard work a former dev
put into it, even if he's no longer a dev. If you are reading more into
it, I believe that's exactly what's happening, you are reading into
Both would
standardize things a bit, but this change would minimize disruption to the
tree if someone stepped up before masking.
Either way, good idea; a betterment of Gentoo, I agree.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
a
I don't know. I did
just cc lisa (distcc maintainer) on the bug, so we'll see. I have a
feeling distcc users wouldn't be very happy if unmasking this broke them.
=8^(
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r)
will reduce confusion on bugzilla and the like, as well.
Unfortunately, I don't have any good suggestions, but I'm sure others can
come up with some. =8^)
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the
in, other
than asking the very reasonable question of why the change isn't covered
in the documentation. Other than that, it's simply doing the bog-standard
coping with routine USE flag changes, only there's a few more of them to
deal with than "routine" in this case.
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en be picked up
by another developer or project, in which case the project that rejected
it is no more responsible for it except that they can continue to refuse
that it be in that project.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and
it actually came time to use that backup.
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Ciaran McCreesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted
[EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted below, on Wed, 14 Jun
2006 10:09:03 +0100:
> The rules call for a GLEP for any wide ranging change. And funnily
> enough, they do so to avoid exactly the kind of mess that Sunrise is.
Point valid.
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thin context.
Not that I have any immediate plans to use it at this time, but I could
conceivably use it for one or more single packages -- tho I expect I'll be
examining each individual ebuild as I merge and upgrade it if I do -- the
security issues are real to me too, and I'm not quite
hanges you experienced, I think you'll agree that having them
change out from underneath you isn't all that pleasant, so this is a
needed change. The only problem was that it wasn't properly documented,
but that has been taken care of now as well.
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files." It was a
> case of semantics and an ambiguously worded sentence, not my inability to
> comprehend use.defaults.
Ooohhh, gotcha now!! You are right, that /is/ a bit
ambiguous. Obviously, neither I nor the author caught that.
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ething is clear, when it's obviously not or the
statement wouldn't have been made in the first place. That said, both
sides continued the discussion past the point where it was obvious this
was a sticking point, rather than stopping right there to address it, so
both sides are guilty. I jus
f as the
> quoting is not needed here
What if someone has PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/tmp/portage temporary workspace" or
"/var/tmp/\$whatever" or some such (yes I know that's crazy, but...)? I'd
agree with the ditto, not with the all three will work fine.
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Peper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED], excerpted
below, on Sat, 17 Jun 2006 11:09:45 +0200:
> It makes no difference in assignments, so all of them will do.
Noted that based on the other replies after posting. Thanks, tho. I
didn't know that until reading the threa
rstandable at this stage), and
the latter didn't seem to mention any of the newer 100% freedomware
alternatives I keep reading about. Thus, there was no answer I could grok.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you
to do it if it's not being
done already. I just wondered what the status and chances were, thinking
if I was lucky a freedomware config might be one of the choices, and this
answers that to my satisfaction.
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"Every nonfree program h
ka
another-is-your-master-ware, xref the sig).
Some here don't care. That's fine -- for them. It's a bit bigger
than that for me, but they don't ask me to run what is to me slaveryware,
and I won't ask them to give up what is to them "convenienceware".
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e (which I am) post. Great job on the detail balance
as well. =8^) As such, it should be quite useful, so again, thanks.
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eby making slotting much easier while eliminating the
"eternal" patch commitment? Has the issue even been brought up with
mozilla-upstream? I know they aren't always the most receptive to
community suggestions, but it's worth asking, anyway.
How many packages are we talki
s the experimental stuff heads for the overlays.
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ven if it's simply "We're still working on
it. Currently, we're targeting a media release in xxx." Add beta info
and other details as available/desired.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and
> number of schedules, personal/professional/gentoo[.]
> As a result, projects involving release engineering, developer
> relations, and events will be delayed until further notice.
Ouch! Condolences then... and understanding. I'm sure other users will
be understanding too, as soon as t
:22:68:9D:F3:7C:2B:A4:08:24:BF:86:EC:80:56
> 3/23/08-3/23/09
Wouldn't it have made more sense if that had been gpg-signed?
If we're worried about security enough to bother with it in the first
place, why not do it right?
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"Eve
, then! As a FLOSS-only user I've been waiting for a
decent full open source Java implementation in the tree for awhile, so
anyone and anything that is movement in that direction is certainly
welcome here! =8^)
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"Every nonfree
sly had.
Is there a grub-static to test, for those of us on ~amd64 no-multilib?
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and both 0.xx and x.00 are therefore
defined as allowed, unless there's a further restriction elsewhere that
hasn't been quoted.
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et for another round or
two at least, this user patch infrastructure would sure be nice!
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olar:
>
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/bashrc
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~solar/portage_misc/bashrc.autopatch
Thanks.
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everybody give a warm re-welcome to Josh.
As long as it's not a warm beer re-welcome! =8^S
Welcome back, jmglov! =8^)
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didn't have patches and 4.3 was still hard-
masked, but I have been keeping a list. =8^)
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tp://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/glep/glep-0027.html
For those who don't know their GLEPs by number, this is
Portage management of UIDs/GIDs.
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master.&
, and doesn't remove
changed files. Otherwise the normal upgrade procedure of installing the
new then uninstalling the old wouldn't work.
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options of working - with replace and with sending error. Maybe switch
> like "--force-install"?
RTFM as they say, and ask on the user list if you still don't
understand. This is a devel list not a user help list. The option (in
portage anyway) has been there for some time.
--
isabuse me of my misinformation, I'd definitely appreciate it.
If it's correct, it's certainly worth considering before one starts
making absolutist assumptions and statements that could be wrong in some
cases, particularly as such bad assumptions seem to often lead ultimately
to
Rémi Cardona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted [EMAIL PROTECTED],
excerpted below, on Thu, 17 Apr 2008 07:49:23 +0200:
> Duncan a écrit :
>> Whatever your faults, you /do/
>> tend to be quite accurate on such things.
>
> Wow, you've managed to turn a nice technical di
intended at all, and I thank someone for rightfully pointing that out,
and also the person who brought it to my attention offlist and allowing
me to try to correct the problem -- tho I realize it's not something that
really /can/ be entirely corrected.
--
Duncan - List replies preferred.
l never stabilize), the newer
kde3 ebuilds should have been stable for some time, so the blocks are
there just in case someone has a real outdated kde3 system and tries to
install kde4 as well. If they are going to keep their kde3, they'll need
to update it first, to the ebuilds that handle
more flexibility for the ordinary build case,
presumably enough to reasonably accurately describe current behavior
deterministically. (I'll freely admit to not knowing enough about
current tree behavior to pick the right option there.)
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
ould be the only working alternative in the OR
case above.
As others have said, this is certainly a good candidate for future EAPI
change, but it's not future EAPIs under current discussion, so that fact
doesn't help the current discussion.
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTM
has been a moderator there for about 9 months.
For some reason I keep parsing that as beginning with "bl". Welcome,
"bunder, and may you not "blunder" on the tree! =8^)
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master
ipating,
so it's nice to see that yes, someone (you) added us and we are. =8^)
--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
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