Peter posted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, excerpted below, on Sun, 07 May 2006 16:08:52 -0400:
> Anyway, I am a user, and I feel like I can respond. I have participated on > bugzilla, contributed some ebuilds, tried to get a project going (nvidia > unified drivers), and I never felt like I was not encouraged to > participate or that my contributions were not wanted or appreciated. In > fact, the only REALLY negative thing that happened was when Ciaran ripped > me a new a---hole because he objected to the line spacing I used in a > proposed ebuild. Not the ebuild itself, but the line spacing! [some rearranging] > I could not tell exactly what upset you so much about the current state > of affairs. Were you upset at Ciaran's departure? Were you upset that he > was "voted off the island?" Did someone say something to you which > offended or upset you? Personally, I will not miss Ciaran and his "I can > kill you with my brain." I was not impressed, or scared! I've come to realize over the years that I seem to be a bit more tolerant of others and their foibles than some. I consider it a strength. When I started with Gentoo, I didn't see anything of benefit with the way Ciaran carried himself, and in fact, had a rather low opinion of him. Something has changed over the last year, however, as I watched him and others, and Gentoo in general. I gained an entirely new respect for him and his opinion. While he might not always put things in the most friendly way, something I find regrettable but now understand, one of the first things I noticed is how technically astute Ciaran is. The second thing I noticed is that unlike some, if you want to get a real, pulled no punches opinion, you ask Ciaran. He'll tell you exactly what he thinks of the idea and the technical merits, and what needs to be changed to begin bringing it into line. Again, it's not always (perhaps seldom) the most pleasant delivery, but he's the one to go to if you want an honest opinion. In the end, if one doesn't simply get discouraged by it all (the danger of being so frank), it cuts thru the crap and builds an efficient product much faster and with fewer exchanges than likely would have been the case had he been more polite in his delivery. It's not the "yes" men or those that couch their objections in polite agreement or even polite disagreement that are at times the most valuable to have around, but the one or two people you can go to that you can be SURE will tell it to you like it is -- the good and ESPECIALLY the bad! There's a place in any organization for such folks, and without them, that organization is far worse off. Watching him develop the news GLEP, I realized a couple other things as well. He's as equally demanding of himself as he is of others -- he knew the thing wasn't ready, and wouldn't be thru a number of additional revisions, and said so. A watcher soon realized that not only was he incorporating the ideas of others, but that it at that point didn't meet his /own/ highly demanding standards. Secondly on the news glep, I realized just how nasty the process could be at times, coming up with something that important, which by the same measure, is that controversial. How many would have been able to take all that abuse without getting discouraged and giving up, saying no agreement between the parties was possible in the area? He took it all, melding the changes into further revisions, and came back for more. Thru all that I gained a new appreciation for Ciaran and what makes him tick. If there's ever a GLEP I care about and consider important to the betterment of Gentoo, I hope there's someone like Ciaran I can get to guide it thru the process. The glep, and Gentoo as a result, will end up far better for it. Thus, tho not knowing or even necessarily wanting to know all the details of what went on and why Ciaran no longer posts with a Gentoo address, I was immensely relieved to see him still posting. One hopes that whatever it was at some point can be worked out, because here at least, I see the immense benefit to the organization that Ciaran can bring. I don't know who was in the wrong and in some ways don't know that it matters. I do hope that as time goes on, whether it be a month or a year or a couple years from now, Ciaran is once more a part of what Gentoo has grown into by that point, both having changed and ideally improved in the mean time. I had actually written to him expressing these same sentiments. Now I'm doing so publicly as well. I realize it's heading off on a tangent of sorts for the thread, but believe it needs publicly stated. > I also took some flak on bugzilla for duplicate bugs or disputes over > validity of a bug report, etc. However, all of this eventually worked > out. I've had my runins with that, too. Conversely to what I just expressed above, I also believe that regrettably, many folks don't consider the effect what they say may have on the other person. I've pointed out before that there may in fact be far more drastic consequences to a comment than intended. In particular, I don't like the INVALID closing. NOTABUG or NEEDINFO or whatever, but INVALID IMO isn't the best choice. It can be read by some as saying all the work they put into filing the bug (and by extension, everything they've done with Gentoo) is invalid. If that hits at the wrong moment in a person's life, that could have drastic consequences. All I'm asking is that people think about the viewpoint of the other person before responding, and ask themselves whether the response is not only technically accurate, but ultimately beneficial both to Gentoo, and to those involved in the individual case. Unfortunately, that's often a weak point, with the same folks that have the strong points Ciaran does, but this doesn't only apply to him, but to us all. There are times when a straightup opinion is called for, and times when its not. Bless Ciaran, he can be counted on to provide one when needed -- and when not, too. =8^) Anyway, here too, ultimately things have worked out. Sometimes it just took a bit. =8^) > In a community as large as this, and as fast moving, control is > important. I disagree with your assessment of the dev test. I think it's > important for up and coming devs to know the rules and how to apply > them. Especially when it comes to having access to the tree. I also > think it's important to have rules. There is no such thing as a utopian > society, and nothing will ever satisfy all persons. A greatest good for > the greatest number approach seems reasonable (as John Stuart Mill > proposed a few centuries ago). +1 > I think what you're seeing is the beginnings of a transitional period > for Gentoo. Unlike other distros where control is tightly centralized, > Gentoo's openness is part of its problem as it grows. It will be a test > of the leadership to make sure that the distro has a clear course and > that internecine squabbles are dealt with at the appropriate level. > Hopefully devrel will be such a level. Very insightful. Sometimes it hurts to change and to grow. What doesn't change and grow, however, ultimately dies. Change is painful, but one can hope Gentoo will ultimately come out the stronger for it. > Good luck with your Source Mage. Indeed! That it exists as an alternative to Gentoo in the community is a good thing. Each solution has a slightly different emphasis. No one solution can or will be right for everyone, and that the different alternatives exist is a sign of a healthy and vital free/libra and open source software community, not a sign of a stagnating one! Make it the best you can, because those of us still with Gentoo at the moment will certainly be doing our best to make Gentoo the best we can. =8^) -- Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. "Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html -- gentoo-dev@gentoo.org mailing list
