Re: a few steps before approving a project

Quoting another thread: ([VOTE] Proposal for Tobago, an Apache MyFaces subproject) On 9/6/05, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nobody seemed too interested here, though (in contradiction to the > MyFaces community, who was very interested) To me, that's a clear indicator, that mandating t

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Noel J. Bergman wrote: Cliff, - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have a official charter) to include approving of all new projects To quote (or paraphrase) Roy, it is not the Incubator PMC's role to second guess other ASF PMCs when it comes to introducing new ASF projects. -

Re: a few steps before approving a project

David Reid wrote: Cliff asked me to reply on this subject following the discussions on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not trying to interfere, just add some thoughts from someone sitting on the outside looking in. - add a question to the template asking whether the person(s) proposing are aware of s

re: a few steps before approving a project

Cliff asked me to reply on this subject following the discussions on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not trying to interfere, just add some thoughts from someone sitting on the outside looking in. > I'd like to suggest a few changes to the process of approving new > project proposals. The purpose of these

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 11:01:29AM -0700, Cliff Schmidt wrote: > I'd like to suggest a few changes to the process of approving new > project proposals. I think I like your goals and some of your plans, but question whether its smart to paint this as "changes to process". Just see how far you get w

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

--On September 2, 2005 11:54:50 AM -0700 "Roy T. Fielding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Actually, I think Justin was fed up with the stdcxx folks. The Gartner crap (which is always crap) just happened to come along at the wrong time. For the record (since this is a public list), the stdcxx iss

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

Roy, Understood. Please see the reply from Sanjiva about Foo vs "Apache Foo" (message id is <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) thanks, dims On 9/2/05, Roy T. Fielding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: > > > Am hurt by the words "You turned this into a Web Servic

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:53 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Am hurt by the words "You turned this into a Web Services marketing event" (Though i made it really clear multiple times that there was only on press release that i was part of and that was vetted by the prc@) But i will live and learn. Am stil

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

Well, after following this thread (even though not actively taking part) I'd say the stereotype of large and close Italian families fits even better. Which is just fine with me, being born just 30km from the Italian border ;) regards, Martin P.S.: Can you cook some spaghetti, Mamma mia ;) ? O

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

On Sep 2, 2005, at 4:22 AM, Steven Noels wrote: On 02 Sep 2005, at 06:53, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Why is it just us catching the flak? Because we feel you're one of us, rather than one of "them". Look at it as a token of ultimate appreciation. Here here! :) IMO, this is the type of

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

Hehe, thanks :) -- dims On 9/2/05, Steven Noels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 02 Sep 2005, at 06:53, Davanum Srinivas wrote: > > > Why is it just us catching the flak? > > Because we feel you're one of us, rather than one of "them". Look at it > as a token of ultimate appreciation. > > > --

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Roy T. Fielding wrote: I am generally opposed to any of the suggestions that we add more constraints to incubation (aside from a general constraint of no new projects, which I can understand for infrastructure reasons alone). What we need is more documentation, not more rules. +1 --

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Justin Erenkrantz wrote: --On September 1, 2005 8:41:11 PM +1000 Berin Lautenbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There are far more checks already. To get a project approved you need a full resolution signed by the board. A better analogy would be voting on a new PMC member. No PMC requires *a

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

On 02 Sep 2005, at 06:53, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Why is it just us catching the flak? Because we feel you're one of us, rather than one of "them". Look at it as a token of ultimate appreciation. -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

Davanum Srinivas wrote: Am still waiting for someone to point out to an actual problem ("factually incorrect press releases"). Last time i checked, people pay to put out press releases to make them look good. ("seek to spin Synapse into something that makes other companies look good."). May be j

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

On Friday 02 September 2005 12:53, Davanum Srinivas wrote: > While we > are at it, we should probably have our say on contests like this as > well (http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php) And someone have turned ALv2 into a Geronimo EULA ... How come I don't have to click "I agree" when I download fr

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Friday 02 September 2005 04:11, Cliff Schmidt wrote: > I just would like to hear more thoughts from people about whether > there are things we could do to improve our process of approving new > proposals as the ASF continues to grow. Whether or not the ASF needs both belt and suspenders seems t

RE: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

Roy, We did not want to shut the door on anyone bringing in some code, hence we are going thru the incubator. Infravio is donating some code, am hopeful committers from Sonic and IONA will do so as well (code that they have copyright on). Am actually glad that we are taking the highway and meeting

RE: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

> Actually, there were at least two that I know of: > > IONA: http://www.iona.com/pressroom/2005/20050822b.htm > Sonic: > http://www.sonicsoftware.com/news_events/pressitem/pressreleas > e_648412/index.ssp? > > I was the PRC member who gave feedback to IONA, which they > incorporated. Any comp

Re: a few steps before approving a project

+1 on all points. i think we are on the same page. On 9/1/05, Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks, Dims -- I really appreciate the response! > > Comments and responses to your questions below. > > Cliff > > On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Please see belo

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Thanks, Dims -- I really appreciate the response! Comments and responses to your questions below. Cliff On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please see below: > > On 8/31/05, Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Dims, With all due respect for your frustration and its expression (I'm actually not being sarcastic), could you also respond to the subject of this thread and possibly the thoughts that started it? I was really hoping this could remain a discussion of the pros and cons of things along those line

Re: a few steps before approving a project

There was ONLY one press release...that was vetted by the [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please complain to the folks there. There was one document (unsolicited) from Gartner. I've already personally sent a response with help from Justin and others (Thanks justin). So there is nothing left for to do for me o

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Sep 1, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: There was ONLY one press release...that was vetted by the [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please complain to the folks there. There was one document (unsolicited) from Gartner. I've already personally sent a response with help from Justin and others (Thank

Re: Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

I should have been more explicit. "ONLY one press release that i was involved in...that was" -- dims On 9/1/05, Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > (renaming the subject to try to keep the past flames and future > discussions somewhat separate) > > On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROT

Recent Incubator proposals ( was Re: a few steps before approving a project)

(renaming the subject to try to keep the past flames and future discussions somewhat separate) On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There was ONLY one press release...that was vetted by the [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Please > complain to the folks there. Actually, there were at leas

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Done. thanks, dims On 9/1/05, Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dims, > > With all due respect for your frustration and its expression (I'm > actually not being sarcastic), could you also respond to the subject > of this thread and possibly the thoughts that started it? I was > really

Re: a few steps before approving a project

And yes, gag orders have been issued :) -- dims On 9/1/05, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There was ONLY one press release...that was vetted by the [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Please > complain to the folks there. > > There was one document (unsolicited) from Gartner. I've already > pers

Re: a few steps before approving a project

I don't see what this has to do with Synapse, but whatever ... IF we even seem to appear to sneak something by AM sure we will get an earful BUT in this case we courted IONA and got their support and showed that we can build diversity that spans OW and Apache. For this what do we get, brick bats

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Please see below: On 8/31/05, Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have a official > charter) to include approving of all new projects, so that once a > sponsor PMC (if not the Incubator PMC) approves a new project, the > Incubator PMC still ha

Re: a few steps before approving a project

My 2 cents, Hani style :) Names of individual committers are on the Synapse Proposal...No one had ANY problems when the WS PMC was struggling to gain acceptance and struggling to get people excited and willing to contribute. No one lifted a finger when we got bad press because of IBM's or JBoss'

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On 01 Sep 2005, at 01:25, Noel J. Bergman wrote: In my view, any group that wants to part of the ASF, under our IP and Community policies, is welcomed. The ASF should not be in the business of forbidding people to work on things here just because someone else feels that it should be happening

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On 9/1/05, Justin Erenkrantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --On September 1, 2005 10:50:20 AM -0700 Cliff Schmidt > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If the answer to one or more of the questions was not simply "yes", > > then there might be another step or two, such as requiring you or your > > emp

Re: a few steps before approving a project

--On September 1, 2005 10:50:20 AM -0700 Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If the answer to one or more of the questions was not simply "yes", then there might be another step or two, such as requiring you or your employer to sign and submit a "software grant". Some folks might say you

RE: a few steps before approving a project

--On September 1, 2005 12:28:13 PM -0400 James Carman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So, does that mean that Jakarta Commons Proxy will have to go through the Incubator? Right now, it's a commons sandbox project, so it's not officially supported. The code first lived in my "syringe" project I cre

Re: a few steps before approving a project

e Apache > License 2.0. Will Commons Proxy have to go through the Incubator to get > into commons proper? Or, should it be in the incubator now? > > -Original Message- > From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:08 AM > To: general

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Jim Jagielski wrote: On Sep 1, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: IMHO, Incubator CANNOT take a decision based on a proposal. A badly written proposal with best of intentions will not make it and folks will not resubmit stuff just because a similar proj got rejected before. I've always

RE: a few steps before approving a project

e Apache License 2.0. Will Commons Proxy have to go through the Incubator to get into commons proper? Or, should it be in the incubator now? -Original Message- From: Sam Ruby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:08 AM To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re

Re: a few steps before approving a project

--On September 1, 2005 11:32:49 AM -0400 Jim Jagielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The problem is that, up until the Incubator, there was relatively little oversight on new and incoming projects, at least in how they entered the ASF. Certainly the board could not keep track, and PMCs would occas

Re: a few steps before approving a project

--On September 1, 2005 8:41:11 PM +1000 Berin Lautenbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There are far more checks already. To get a project approved you need a full resolution signed by the board. A better analogy would be voting on a new PMC member. No PMC requires *any* input from anyone else

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Sep 1, 2005, at 10:24 AM, Davanum Srinivas wrote: Jim, IMHO, Incubator CANNOT take a decision based on a proposal. A badly written proposal with best of intentions will not make it and folks will not resubmit stuff just because a similar proj got rejected before. I've always thought that th

Re: a few steps before approving a project

--On September 1, 2005 9:08:10 AM -0400 Sam Ruby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If the SVN tree was always on ASF infrastructure, the code was always under the Apache License, and the committers were all ASF committers, then no trip through the incubator is necessary. If any ONE of these things are

Re: a few steps before approving a project

The problem is that, up until the Incubator, there was relatively little oversight on new and incoming projects, at least in how they entered the ASF. Certainly the board could not keep track, and PMCs would occasionally not keep the board up to date. You then add in the fact that some of those pr

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Jim, IMHO, Incubator CANNOT take a decision based on a proposal. A badly written proposal with best of intentions will not make it and folks will not resubmit stuff just because a similar proj got rejected before. I've always thought that the role of Incubator is to make SURE that a project is rea

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Aug 31, 2005, at 7:25 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Cliff, - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have a official charter) to include approving of all new projects To quote (or paraphrase) Roy, it is not the Incubator PMC's role to second guess other ASF PMCs when it comes to

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: > On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:43 -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > >>The Incubator's charter from the board says: >> >> >>RESOLVED, that the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is >>responsible for the acce

Re: a few steps before approving a project

I've been following this with a little bit of confusion. It strikes me that there is a lot of reaction going on without really thinking through the implications. So just to stir the pot Cliff Schmidt wrote: I'd like to suggest a few changes to the process of approving new project propos

RE: a few steps before approving a project

Cliff, > - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have a official > charter) to include approving of all new projects To quote (or paraphrase) Roy, it is not the Incubator PMC's role to second guess other ASF PMCs when it comes to introducing new ASF projects. > - ensure all proposals use

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:55 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:43 -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: The Incubator's charter from the board says: RESOLVED, that the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is resp

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On 8/31/05, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:43 -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > > The Incubator's charter from the board says: > > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby i

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:43 -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > The Incubator's charter from the board says: > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Incubator PMC be and hereby is > responsible for the acceptance and oversight of new prod

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On 8/31/05, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:01 -0700, Cliff Schmidt wrote: > > BTW, the XMLBeans PMC just voted to add a single member to the PMC, > > and even that required a 72-hour wait after getting Board > > acknowledgement (which is fine with me)w

Re: a few steps before approving a project

Personally, I think that formal acceptance via the sponsor PMC and the Incubator makes sense. At present, the Incubator side is a bit fuzzy and semi-inconsistent. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional comma

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Cliff Schmidt wrote: - change the Incubator PMC charter (not that we have a official charter) to include approving of all new projects, so that once a sponsor PMC (if not the Incubator PMC) approves a new project, the Incubator PMC still has to give a final approval

Re: a few steps before approving a project

--On September 1, 2005 12:29:55 AM +0600 Sanjiva Weerawarana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does the incubator PMC get involved with that too? (I'd be most certainly -1 to that; I am not agreeable to saying all PMCs are now throttled by the incubator PMC.) If not, then doesn't the problem you're t

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote: What if a current PMC wants to start an effort on its own? That is, not incubation style, where there's a process of "learning the Apache Way" etc., but rather some ASF committers getting together and starting a new project and they

Re: a few steps before approving a project

On Wed, 2005-08-31 at 11:01 -0700, Cliff Schmidt wrote: > I'd like to suggest a few changes to the process of approving new > project proposals. The purpose of these changes would be to allow the > ASF to consider big picture issues related to the acceptance of new > projects into the Incubator, w

Re: a few steps before approving a project

--On August 31, 2005 11:01:29 AM -0700 Cliff Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'd like to suggest a few changes to the process of approving new project proposals. The purpose of these changes would be to allow the ASF to consider big picture issues related to the acceptance of new projects i