Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

If you just look at the world then "all [persons] are created equal" is just nonsense. What I like to focus on is what can we as a society do, and what can I personally do to move towards making all more equal? It's obviously not practical to expect heaven on earth, but IMO the current state of ine

[FRIAM] Epic

Covid Rant goes METAL! [San Diego Board of Supervisors meeting Remix] https://youtu.be/052iTp04DRY We've broached the ethics of enjoying the fruits of problematic people before. My favorite example is HP Lovecraft's racism and xenophobic inspired, insanity inducing otherness. But even HG Wells

[FRIAM] our friends the police

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/27/colorado-lawsuit-officer-shot-puppy/ - . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfi

Re: [FRIAM] Epic

That is a big boy. COVID might well get him. > On Aug 27, 2021, at 6:11 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ wrote: > >  > Covid Rant goes METAL! [San Diego Board of Supervisors meeting Remix] > https://youtu.be/052iTp04DRY > > We've broached the ethics of enjoying the fruits of problematic people > before. My favo

Re: [FRIAM] our friends the police

Thanks for ruining my day. I feel sick. Here's one that's not behind a paywall: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2021/08/26/matthew-grashorn-civil-lawsuit-loveland-police-officer-officer-shot-dog/ On 8/27/21 6:38 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/27/colorado-

Re: [FRIAM] Epic

Is there ever such a thing as an excess of irony? Does irony every become toxic? Incapacitating? "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men. The Shadow knows. Hoo-hoo-hoo-ha-ha-ha-HAAH" Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ -Original M

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

OK, curmudgeon and misanthrope that I am, I still must ask: Why this obsession with "equality?" Outside of the abstraction of math, no one thing is equal, in any sense, to another, let alone all members of a set of things being equal to each other. Narrowing our attention to human beings. it ha

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

I thought Glen made a good bid for "respect" over "equality".   The aphorism "we optimize what we measure" seems apropos.   Equality IS (at best?) a roll-up measure of other things.   Noting inequality (of income, of assets, of access to opportunity, of treatment by due process, etc.) is useful to

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Dave, I think of mathematical abstractions as aspirations. Thanks for meeting me on my own ground, here. You will recall that my original project was to try and discover what the metaphysical foundations might be for my strong negative response to the idea that castes are tolerable.

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Dave wrote *Why this obsession with "equality?"* I totally agree. But in South Africa we have a large portion of the population that do not have food on the table every day and I simply don't think it's right. So, my view is that instead of obsessing with "equality", we should obsess that those

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Editor's note: humbleness = humility. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 11:11 AM wrote: > Dave, > > > > I think of mathematical abstractions as aspirations. > > > > Thanks for meeting me on my own ground, here. You will recall that my > original project was to try and discover what the metaphysical foun

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Pieter, If, in your ideal world, their lives are “decent, ” how would you characterize the life that you are leading. The way you talk sounds a bit like the way we talk about “essential” workers here. N Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

All are created equal, in terms of having certain inalienable rights. Beyond that, I'm not sure anything is claimed in the document mentioned. They certainly didn't think all men were equally tall, or equally robust, or equally prepared for leisurely pursuits or hard labor. They didn't think men we

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

I like Amartya Sen's take on what he calls "agency". https://www.jstor.org/stable/2026184 https://doi.org/10.2307/2026184 On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 2:25 PM Steve Smith wrote: > Marcus wrote: > > You are made of matter following some trajectory that was initiated with > the big bang, and you w

[FRIAM] Help for Afghanistan's scientists

Afghanistan’s scientists see gains slip away For 20 years, science has blossomed in Afghanistan. Now many researchers are fleeing and those who remain face lost funding and the threat of persec

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Nick, Thanks for asking how I would characterize the life I'm leading. My life is just great, I'm satisfied with my life. My need for food, safety, love and self-esteem are to a large degree met. Actually, I would rate myself on the self-actualization level on Moslow's hierarchy. It's not about m

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

So, of the privileges you enjoy and list, how many would have to go away before you life would be no longer “decent”? To be honest, Idon’t know what I am fishing for here, but for some reason the answer to that question seems important to me. I guess, I am thinking that the notion of a decen

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

During WW2, while my father was serving in the Pacific, my mother and I lived with her parents in a little village in the mountains of rural New Mexico. We lived in a two bedroom house with running water but no bathroom. Heat was provided by a wood burning stove that was used for cooking as well.

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

I wonder how it is for professional people that live in India in terms of salary vs. cost of living.I know the salary is a lot lower than in the U.S., but expenses may be much lower too? My limited observation has been that there is competition for positions, and it can be nasty. It would

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

A photo of me, my oldest cousin, and my grandfather taken at that time (WW2). That's a railroad boxcar used as a temporary residence for transient railroad workers. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 1:45 PM Frank Wimber

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

https://photos.app.goo.gl/r16FhERrK1p7SFhM6 --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM - . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe ht

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Seconding what I take to be Frank's sentiment, I would be "satisfied" with MUCH less than I have now. I'm not sure how that connects to the larger thread though. I feel bad for people who have been taught to be robustly unsatisfied with life. On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 3:46 PM Frank Wimberly wrot

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

https://photos.app.goo.gl/r16FhERrK1p7SFhM6 --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM - . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe ht

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

You asked how many privileges would have to go away before my life would no longer be "decent". It's not that I don't care about material things, I love my luxuries, but I don't need them to have a "decent" life. For me now, in my old age, health, good family and friend relations and then just bas

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

> A photo of me, my oldest cousin, and my grandfather taken at that time > (WW2).  That's a railroad boxcar used as a temporary residence for > transient railroad workers. My parents lived in a 50s "canned ham" style camp trailer for most of the first 18 months of my life.  My father was a junior

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Psychologically, I think shared hardship is very different than individual hardship. My grandfather’s road construction and trucking work in Oregon is honored work in the family. His generation built what the country is today. If one does that kind of work today, it holds no real esteem.

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

PS! No photo! Thanks for your observations. Let’s say everybody like you were sent back to that boxcar. There would be a revolution, right? Blood in the streets. N Nick Thompson thompnicks...@gmail.com

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

A link to the photo is in a separate email. I wouldn't mind going back. I wouldn't care about not having published more papers. Say, this is a good moment to pitch my memoir about my childhood in New Mexico. amazon.com/author/frankwimberly --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, N

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

And as one of Frank's readers, I highly recommend it if you have any nostalgia at all, or curiosity about what made Frank Frank! I doubt it will motivate ME to write my own as Nick encourages, though I suppose I could just collate my FriAM reminiscences and that alone would probably qualify...  

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Nick, I am not a metaphysicist to debate such things with you. Can just state cold facts. All persons would be created equally .. in a perfect world. However, when the world they are born into is imbalanced, in actuality their weightage depends on the circumstances of their birth and the larger s

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

I am not a metaphysicist either, but like all human beings, I do have a metaphysics, and so was trying to figure out what that was. Most of my colleagues here in the US have not found that project useful, so it’s small wonder that you don’t. Those are some remarkable facts you laid out ther

Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal"

Colonization is a proven model. For 2 trillion dollars, shouldn’t we have some concrete benefit in mind? Sure there’s some taxes via defense contractors. I don’t know what one would do with that place. Casinos? > On Aug 27, 2021, at 6:00 PM, Sarbajit Roy wrote: > > So if I look at it disp