And as one of Frank's readers, I highly recommend it if you have any nostalgia at all, or curiosity about what made Frank Frank!
I doubt it will motivate ME to write my own as Nick encourages, though I suppose I could just collate my FriAM reminiscences and that alone would probably qualify... The first chapter, I suppose would be "canned ham and a cowbell"? > A link to the photo is in a separate email. I wouldn't mind going > back. I wouldn't care about not having published more papers. > > Say, this is a good moment to pitch my memoir about my childhood in > New Mexico. > > amazon.com/author/frankwimberly <http://amazon.com/author/frankwimberly> > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 3:54 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > OOOOPS! No photo! > > > > Thanks for your observations. Let’s say everybody like you were > sent back to that boxcar. There would be a revolution, right? > Blood in the streets. > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly > *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2021 3:56 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal" > > > > A photo of me, my oldest cousin, and my grandfather taken at that > time (WW2). That's a railroad boxcar used as a temporary > residence for transient railroad workers. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 1:45 PM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com > <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > During WW2, while my father was serving in the Pacific, my > mother and I lived with her parents in a little village in the > mountains of rural New Mexico. We lived in a two bedroom > house with running water but no bathroom. Heat was provided > by a wood burning stove that was used for cooking as well. > There was a battery powered console radio. I was between 4 > months and 30 months old. I was bathed in a galvanized > washtub and I remember that. We had no shortage of food nor > clothing. My grandfather worked for the Santa Fe Railroad as > a section foreman and had a secure salary. I remember being > happy but, for the most part, I was oblivious. A kid that age > isn't happy if the adults, particularly his mother, aren't > happy. After my mother and I moved away from there after the > War we visited often until I was five. I remember my > grandparents enjoying life for the most part. > > > > To live like that today would require me to give up almost > everything I have. But I feel nostalgic for that time and > fond of those memories. > > > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 1:23 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > So, of the privileges you enjoy and list, how many would > have to go away before you life would be no longer “decent”? > > > > To be honest, Idon’t know what I am fishing for here, but > for some reason the answer to that question seems > important to me. I guess, I am thinking that the notion of > a decent life, like that of a essential worker, hides some > caste implications within it. That some of us are of a > nature that they SHOULD be satisfied with less than would > satisfy me. > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Pieter > Steenekamp > *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2021 3:06 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal" > > > > Nick, > > Thanks for asking how I would characterize the life I'm > leading. My life is just great, I'm satisfied with my > life. My need for food, safety, love and self-esteem are > to a large degree met. Actually, I would rate myself on > the self-actualization level on Moslow's hierarchy. > > It's not about me, there are many people in South Africa > who's basic physiological needs like food and safety are > not met. > > Pieter > > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 at 20:28, <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Pieter, > > > > If, in your ideal world, their lives are “decent, ” > how would you characterize the life that you are > leading. The way you talk sounds a bit like the way > we talk about “essential” workers here. > > > > N > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of > *Pieter Steenekamp > *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2021 1:49 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee > Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created equal" > > > > Dave wrote /Why this obsession with "equality?"/ > > > > I totally agree. But in South Africa we have a large > portion of the population that do not have food on the > table every day and I simply don't think it's right. > > So, my view is that instead of obsessing with > "equality", we should obsess that those on the bottom > of the economic ladder should at least have decent lives. > > Pieter > > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 at 19:11, <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Dave, > > > > I think of mathematical abstractions as aspirations. > > > > Thanks for meeting me on my own ground, here. You > will recall that my original project was to try > and discover what the metaphysical foundations > might be for my strong negative response to the > idea that castes are tolerable. What MUST I > assume in order to think as I do. I have for > many years suspected that the fundamental > difference between comfortable BHL’s like me and > comfortable conservatives is that we liberals see > our comfort as arising from good luck, and they > see their comfort as arising from their merit. > Now, all metaphysics is non-sense, except insofar > as it explains and encourages an approach to other > people that is … um …. Good. I think than mine > encourages me to approach people less wealthy than > I, not as people deserving of their fate but as > people who have, in some sense, made me a gift. > Thus if there is kharma, it should be that the > fortunate “should” pay for the correction of any > absence of randomness that intergenerational > transfers might inflict on the children of the > poor. > > > > I lay this out in this naïve way because I thought > it might provoke a strong (and perhaps equally > naïve) reaction from Sarbajit which would make it > immediately clear what different places we are > coming from. Sarbajit may not answer, in which > case I am left having revealed my naivete > metaphysics to you bozos with all the consequences > that must follow. > > > > Now remember, nobody ever claimed that all > [persons] are created equal. I think that we all > will agree that all persons are created equal [ > in] and that they are endowed … with certain > unalienable rights …” “– i.e., they should be > equal before the law. Our differences lie between > these two poles. I take the “and” seriously, and > think that, above and beyond the legal rights > implied by the “endowment” conveyed by the second > clause, they have an obligation of humbleness and > gratitude to all those what have their good > fortune possible, and that, at the very minimum > that obligation should be expressed in an overtly > redistributive tax policy. > > > > But even if you don’t accept the further > implications of severing the two clauses in the > way that I do, the notion of equality before the > law demands much more of the rich than they > currently pay. For instance, when J. P. Morgan IX > runs over the faithful k-9 companion of the > homeless Max Morgan and Max decides to sue, J.P. > can pay the requested amount, including Max’s > court costs and be done with it. If he decides to > contest, then both parties should pay into the > court costs in proportion to their wealth and the > lawyers should be assigned at random. > > > > To the extent that the list is laced with > libertarians, I don’t expect much sympathy from > the list for any of this. If one thing unites > libertarians, I would wager, it is the idea that > people get what they deserve, or at least, that > they have the right to hang on to whatever they get. > > > > So, Dave: What is your naïve metaphysics? > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of > *Prof David West > *Sent:* Friday, August 27, 2021 11:17 AM > *To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are created > equal" > > > > OK, curmudgeon and misanthrope that I am, I still > must ask: > > > > Why this obsession with "equality?" > > > > Outside of the abstraction of math, no one thing > is equal, in any sense, to another, let alone all > members of a set of things being equal to each other. > > > > Narrowing our attention to human beings. it has > already been noted that the dimensions of > potential inequality are myriad. It would be > impossible to "equalize" all dimensions > simultaneously, so pick one, income for example, > and equalize on that dimension. > > > > To what end? What outcome would you expect to see? > Why would it not be the case that every possible > outcome would result in persistent "inequalities" > because all the other dimensions of difference > would swamp your 'independent variable' of income? > > > > No two human beings are created equal, let alone > all "men." (sic) But the unfounded conviction that > this must be 'true' demands the invention of myth > to explain why it is not. And those myths are, in > my opinion, harmful and divisive. > > > > I agree with Pieter (and probably everyone else on > this list) that the current state of income > inequality is evil and untenable. But, I would > disagree with any means of rectifying the > situation that is grounded in any kind of myth of > individual human "equality." > > > > davew > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, at 1:34 AM, Pieter > Steenekamp wrote: > > If you just look at the world then "all > [persons] are created equal" is just nonsense. > What I like to focus on is what can we as a > society do, and what can I personally do to > move towards making all more equal? It's > obviously not practical to expect heaven on > earth, but IMO the current state of inequality > is just not acceptable, but that's no reason > to do nothing. For now I just address the > first one, what can we as a society do? > > > > The current state of politics is to a > large extent driven by ideology and I would > like to see a movement towards a more > practical, and humble approach. Like an > approach based on the philosophy behind the > 2019 economic Nobel prize winners Banerjee, > Duflo and Kremer. Their approach to reduce > global poverty is experiment-based, taken from > science. > > > > I quote from > > https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/14/nobel-prize-in-economics-won-by-trio-tackling-global-poverty/ > > <https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/14/nobel-prize-in-economics-won-by-trio-tackling-global-poverty/> > : > > "Their work, which tackles one of humanities > most pressing issues, is based on the idea > that to battle poverty, the issues should be > broken down into smaller pieces and studied > via small field experiments to answer precise > questions within the communities who are most > affected." > > > > Another quote: > > "Poor people are supposed to be either > completely desperate or lazy or > entrepreneurial but people don’t – we don’t > try to … understand the deep root and > interconnected root of poverty." - Esther Duflo > > > > I don't mind if anybody wants to understand > the deep root and interconnected root of > poverty, it's just that I personally, like > Esther Duflo, like to focus on what to do > about it. > > > > Pieter > > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 at 05:07, > <thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Dave, > > > > This is, of course, exactly the opposite > of my creation myth in which the slate is > wiped clean after every generation. But > it would explain a belief system in which > well-being was the deserved reward of > having lived well in a previous life. > > > > While I am here, please let me point out > that “equal in law” seems a rather > constrained understanding “born equal”, > given especially that the passage goes on > to add equality in law (well rights, > actually) as an additional endowment. > > > > “… and they are endowed by their Creator > by certain rights, including life, > liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. > > > > Where is John Dobson when we need him. > Could somebody please forward this note to > him. I don’t have his email address here > with me. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Nick > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com > <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On > Behalf Of *Prof David West > > *Sent:* Thursday, August 26, 2021 10:17 PM > > *To:* friam@redfish.com > <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] "All [persons] are > created equal" > > > > Purely from my academic understanding of > the subject; the Nick that is, at this > moment / in this incarnation, is a product > of karma accrued and shed over multiple > instances of existence. Hence, what you > are now is precisely what you _deserve_ to > be. All persons may have been created > equal some untold incarnations ago and > before they had any opportunity to accrete > karma. > > > > davew > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, at 2:04 > PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Sarbajit, > > > > If I understand the shape of the globe > correctly, you are waking up pretty > soon, and I would like to pick up the > conversation about caste, if you don’t > mind. > > > > I believe the proposition in the > subject line. Given the many ways > that proposition can be understood as > plainly false, I feel that my belief > in it must be defended. > > > > In what sense equal? Not in genes. > Not in uterine environment. . Not in > early nutrition and cognitive > stimulation. Not in social capitol. > Not in financial capitol. Not in > access to health care. Not in > exposure to future parasites. Not in > almost anything that I can think of. > So, why is the aphorism not just nonsense. > > > > I find, that if I examine my thinking > in this matter, a very primitive > metaphysics about the moment of an > individual’s creation. What follows > is flagrantly silly, but here it is. > On my account, at the moment of birth > a soul is taken out of storage and > assigned to a body. By “person” in > the aphorism, I mean the combination > of a particular soul with the > particular body. These assignments > are at random. So, for good or ill, > no soul deserves the body it gets. I > cannot claim credit for my genes, my > good uterine environment, my social > capitol, my financial capitol, my bad > hip, the draft deferment it provided, > my getting a phd at absolute peak of > demand for phd’s, my good education, > even my FRIAM membership. They are > all consequences of that initial, > random assignment. Now YOU may > credit me in some ways, because > knowing that all these advantages have > been assigned to me may make me useful > or pleasing (or the opposite) in many > ways, and that may bring me the > advantages of your association. But è > I ç do not èdeserveç those advantages. > > > > This odd metaphysics leads me to > enormous gratitude for the life I have > been allowed to live and great > sympathy for rigorous taxation of the > advantaged, so that so much a soul’s > future is not determined by that > moment of assignment. > > > > I have no idea what happens to this > primitive metaphysics if I try to > integrate it with my monism. The > religious scholars among you might > recognize as some backass weird > perversion of Calvinism. > > > > > > Nick Thompson > > thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ > <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... > -..-. .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. > .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 > bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > > un/subscribe > > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > FRIAM-COMIC > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > > archives: > http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. > .... . .-. . > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn > GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > > > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . > .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 > bit.ly/virtualfriam <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > <http://bit.ly/virtualfriam> > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > <http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> > > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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