On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Rainer Duffner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mass-installation via PXE-booting is a mess (how can you have to pack the
> install.cfg file into the mfsroot diskimage???).
I have done some work on a tool for rapidly imaging many FreeBSD
systems and a set of packages us
Gary Jennejohn wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:30:17 -0700
Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing disk
partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can
also use it later after the system is insta
John Baldwin wrote:
> On Thursday 17 July 2008 12:30:17 pm Randy Bush wrote:
>>> I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing
>>> disk partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and
>>> sysadmins can also use it later after the system is installed.
>> i oft
On Thursday 17 July 2008 12:30:17 pm Randy Bush wrote:
> > I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing
> > disk partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and
> > sysadmins can also use it later after the system is installed.
>
> i often invoke sysinstall
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:30:17 -0700
Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing
> > disk
> > partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can
> > also use it later after the system is installed.
>
>
> I think the best route to that is to have a separate utility for managing
> disk
> partitioning. The installer can then use that utility, and sysadmins can
> also use it later after the system is installed.
i often invoke sysinstall on a running system to slice/partition/etc a
new drive
ran
On Saturday 05 July 2008 11:22:09 am Robert Watson wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote:
>
> > The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the
> > ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on
> > getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation
On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:19 PM, Mike Makonnen wrote:
Yes, libdisk is bad. GEOM_PART has been designed
for use by installers. It can be interfaced
faily easily. See gpart(8) for example.
Is there documentation for the geom_part API somewhere (I couldn't
find any)
or do I have to look at gpart(
Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
On Jul 8, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Rink Springer wrote:
On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote:
Freddie Cash wrote:
The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning,
and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power o
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 8:00 AM, Mike Makonnen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current
>>> sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for
>>> post-installation configuration and package installat
On Mon, Jul 07, 2008 at 11:55:41AM -0700, Freddie Cash wrote:
>
> IMO, the installer should allow you to partition the disk(s), format
> the partition(s), install the OS, configure a user, and reboot the
> system. Anything beyond that should be handled by the OS tools, from
> within the installed
On Jul 8, 2008, at 12:04 PM, Rink Springer wrote:
On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote:
Freddie Cash wrote:
The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice
partitioning,
and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of
FreeBSD's GEOM modul
On Tue, Jul 08, 2008 at 05:53:45PM +0300, Mike Makonnen wrote:
> Freddie Cash wrote:
> >
> > The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning,
> > and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of
> > FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS.
> >
>
> Actually, this is
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current
sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for
post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes
no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The
Freddie Cash wrote:
The tricky part will be getting the disk slicing, slice partitioning,
and filesystem formatting to work reliably, with all the power of
FreeBSD's GEOM modules, and ZFS.
Actually, this is probably the easiest part (at least for UFS). The
libdisk(3) library abstracts most o
> Hear, hear! To be honest, this is the only bit about the current
> sysinstall that I really dislike: the fact that it can be used for
> post-installation configuration and package installation. This causes
> no end of trouble for newbies, who seem to view sysinstall as "The One
> True System
:...
:minimalist people, while a graphical installer running on top of a
:live CD, like in many Linux distributions, Ubuntu, etc. could be
:envisioned. The DragonFlyBSD installer runs on top of a live CD, this is
:the easiest way to have a full featured installer, but this requires a
:machine with
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Mike Makonnen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, the installer's job should only be to install a useable system.
> Post-installation chores like configuration,
> adding/removing users, etc should be done by another application. You
> shouldn't need the installer o
I have just moved to freeBSD from debian (and obviously windows before
that) I also have OS X. I reinstalled OS X for my girlfriend and there
is nothing to be done, it is so easy but I also don't have a
clue what it does, and have no real reason to find out.
The freeBSD (7.0) install I th
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:51:10 +0300, Giorgos Keramidas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:31:51 +0200, "Paul B. Mahol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 7/4/08, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you
can
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 14:31:51 +0200, "Paul B. Mahol" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 7/4/08, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you
>>> can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP
>>> mirror, actually; ju
On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 09:38:37 +0300, "Aggelidis Nikos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two
>> things: 1. CD's that installed without being switched in and out
>> dozens of times. That was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I
>> didn't e
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 10:56:29 +0200, Holger Kipp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Antoine Brunel,
>
> I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new
> sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later
> RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of
>
Robert Watson wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote:
The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including
the ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently
working on getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list
after that is setting Dat
> Sounds pretty much in line with what I was looking for. However, I
> think I would like to see it be a bit more complete than sysinstall in
> the area of geom partition labeling (concat/strip/raid/encryption), and
> perhaps also ZFS support. I realize that adds complexity a fair amount,
> but o
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008, Mike Makonnen wrote:
The installer can already install a basic FreeBSD system (including the
ports collection) from CD, UFS, or DOS partition. I'm currently working on
getting FTP/HTTP/NFS installation to work. Next on my list after that is
setting Date and Time Zone. At th
Robert Watson wrote:
For me, it's really about minimizing the time to get to a generic
install from a CD or DVD. Most of the time, I don't do a lot of
customization during the install -- I configure machines using DHCP, I
add most packages later, and I tend to use default disk layouts since
On 2008-Jul-03 23:04:10 -0700, Rob Lytle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>FreeBSD partition, and install OpenBSD which has impeccable documentation.
Having tried to make sense of the OpenBSD carp documentation, I can
only assume that is meant as a joke.
--
Peter Jeremy
Please excuse any delays as the
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:26:16 -0700
> From: "Rob Lytle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that
> its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done.
>
> I use portupgrade for all ports.
>
> i s
On 7/4/08, Randy Bush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.org which you
>> can install with 'pkg_add -r'. You can install them from any FTP
>> mirror, actually; just point PACKAGEROOT at the mirror:
>
> why isn't this stuff in the docs? oh, it i
"Rob Lytle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the
> time to waste compiling. Plus, you are presented with numerous nag screens
> so you have to babysit the whole process.
This is why there are precompiled packages on ftp.freebsd.or
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Rob Lytle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Greg Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote:
>>
>> > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into
>> > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Greg Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote:
>
> > > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into
> > > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.)
> >
> > What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option
> I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1.
> CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That
> was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD
> install existed, but will do that next time.
>
I also had the same
Rob Lytle wrote:
You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into
/etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.)
What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none
at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere.
It means, "yeah, what
On 2008-07-03, Rob Lytle wrote:
> > You can get rid of the nag screens by putting "BATCH=yes" into
> > /etc/make.conf. (Not that this negates your other points.)
>
> What the hell does "yes" mean? That all option boxes are checked, or none
> at all? I have never seen this explained anywhere.
Rob Lytle wrote:
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Stephen Montgomery-Smith <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rob Lytle wrote:
Hi Kevin,
The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt
that
its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done.
I use port
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Stephen Montgomery-Smith <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rob Lytle wrote:
>
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt
>> that
>> its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done.
>>
>> I use por
Rob Lytle wrote:
Hi Kevin,
The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that
its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done.
I use portupgrade for all ports.
i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the
time to
Hi Kevin,
The sysinstall dependency problem has existed for 10 years, so I doubt that
its unique to me. It has occurred in every installation I have ever done.
I use portupgrade for all ports.
i strongly disagree with using ports for huge packages. I don't have the
time to waste compiling. P
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:21:00 +0200
Michel Talon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> evolve easily. The argument that there sould be no external dependency
> seems to me inspired by the NIH syndrom.
I think your seeming is wrong. I believe it's inspired by the belief
that the base system should be self-rep
Hi all
I suggest this "flame" to stop right now... because everybody is ok
finally
I agree with Rob in the fact that 'sysinstall' is a bit disturbing tool
with its way of working: the "enter" key, the error messages if HTTP
source is unavailable, etc
and I confess I had to re-insta
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700
> From: "Rob Lytle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1.
> CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That
> was fixed by the s
Doug Barton wrote:
> Mike Makonnen has some very interesting ideas on this topic:
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-December/081400.html
>
> FWIW, I think that there are 3 basic requirements for a new installer:
>
> 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable o
2008/7/3 Doug Barton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting at
> least a few different UIs (see above).
> 2. At least one of those UIs should be functional over a standard serial
> console.
> 3. It should be scriptable.
I was thinking of doing
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 23:36:09 -0400
"Sean Cavanaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD's so i
> didn't know what I was getting into. I had always just used the
> first CD for the initial install, then ports for everything else.
> Next time I wi
Mike Makonnen has some very interesting ideas on this topic:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2007-December/081400.html
FWIW, I think that there are 3 basic requirements for a new installer:
1. It should be library-based and therefore be capable of supporting
at least a few di
Tim Kientzle wrote:
I don't think a graphical installer is necessarily
the answer to this. Simply obeying long-established
conventions for keyboard usage (ENTER selects the
thing under the cursor, for instance, instead of
having to TAB to the "OK" button first) would go
a long ways.
The versi
> Robert Watson wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote:
>>
>>> Robert Watson wrote:
>>>
My primary concern about some of these replacement installer
projects
is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical
-- I
actually couldn't care less about GUI
Lothar Braun wrote:
What about having two utilities for the installation process? Something
like a very small (non-gui/non-X) version of "sysinstall" that just
installs a base system and only has the functionality to
- partition/label a disk
- configure the network (if needed for installation
Robert Watson wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote:
Robert Watson wrote:
My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects
is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I
actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually
hurt
Lothar Braun schrieb:
Robert Watson wrote:
My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects
is that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I
actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually
hurt my configurations, since I use serial cons
Holger Kipp wrote:
I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new
sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later
RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of
a graphical installer?
One big problem with the current installer: The
current ke
On Thu, 2008-07-03 at 11:33 +0200, Michel Talon wrote:
> Antoine BRUNEL wrote:
>
> > In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit
> > out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing
> > a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be
On Wed, 2008-07-02 at 11:23 -0700, Rob Lytle wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998.
>
> 1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly
> tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times.
> If you don't
Antoine BRUNEL wrote:
> In conclusion, I can agree you in that the "sysinstall" soft is a bit
> out-dated, but it respond on a need of a BSD philosophy: just installing
> a working operating system. All the later tasks have to be done by
> "hands". But that's exactly what I wanted when I replac
Dear Antoine Brunel,
I completely 100% agree. Actually I don't see the need for a new
sysinstall. It does what it needs to do. I have seen the later
RH- and SUSE-Installer, but I don't want them. What's the use of
a graphical installer?
The only thing endusers might need is the choice of installi
Robert Watson wrote:
My
primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is
that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I
actually couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt
my configurations, since I use serial consoles a lot), but what
I've picked out one or two of your complaints only.
On Thursday 03 July 2008 00:16, Curtis Penner wrote:
> Let us take this further.
>
> Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux
> is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user.
Really? I tried installing Kubun
On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Lothar Braun wrote:
Robert Watson wrote:
My primary concern about some of these replacement installer projects is
that they've placed a strong focus on making them graphical -- I actually
couldn't care less about GUIs (and I think they actually hurt my
configurations, sin
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 21:28:50 -0700, "Rob Lytle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2. Being able to use Sysinstall and not having it crash when a
> dependency is already present. Sometimes I like to use Sysinstall to
> install gigantic packages where the compile time is 26 hours, e.g KDE
> metapackage, a
Hi All,
I'm sorry I started a kind of flame war. All I wanted was two things: 1.
CD's that installed without being switched in and out dozens of times. That
was fixed by the suggestion of using a DVD. I didn't even know the DVD
install existed, but will do that next time.
2. Being able to us
From: Rob Lytle
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 7:59 PM
To: Sean Cavanaugh ; freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years /
thanks for responding
Thanks Sean,
This is the first time I ever actually downloaded all 3 CD&#
Thanks for responding Curtis,
I've used FreeBSD for a long time. In fact, when the Athlon first came out,
FreeBSD would run with it, and SUSE would not. I thought that was a good
sign that FreeBSD was top notch. Plus it booted faster than any computer
and/or OS I had ever used. And the memory
rld gets installed, I will try portupgrade again.
Sincerely, Rob
On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Sean Cavanaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
Hi,
As just another FreeBSD user
| By Curtis Penner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| [ 2008-07-03 00:51 +0200 ]
> When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The
> front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech
> savv
On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:16:27 -0700
Curtis Penner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors.
I disagree, but that's another debate. BSD is still my desktop OS of
choice.
> So what is wrong?
>
> It doesn't have the native 3rd party applications. Why
On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 03:16:27PM -0700, Curtis Penner wrote:
> Let us take this further.
>
> Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux
> is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user.
>
Some distros, perhaps, though I'd say that the fact that there is an
o
On the whole, I rather like the installation process for FreeBSD.
Generally what I really like about FreeBSD is the ease of system
administration, and whenever I use Linux distributions I get rather
frustrated.
If, as the OP suggests, installation of packages from the FreeBSD CD's
requires sw
> I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and click
if i want point and click, i use a mac (and spend a lot of time using
find to see where the hell they moved things).
if i want solid & performance, i run freebsd and learn to live with
portupgrade.
because expert people reso
I complete what Curtis wrote...
How many times do you have to install a BSD system ??? even in case of
hell, you can still remove every ports/ package, juste leaving the CSH
and kernel layer, then install what you need again... try to remove the
"glibc" package from Linux (an Howto exists), an
Curtis Penner wrote:
Let us take this further.
...
When you do a system install it is like jumping back to the 80's. The
front-end is like something from the DOS days. You have to be tech
savvy to know what you want to do.
...
I am looking forward to a time when installing BSD is point and
On Wed, 2 Jul 2008, Rob Lytle wrote:
My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998.
The good news is that there are no less than three in-progress sysinstall
replacements. At least two have been posted about recently with test ISOs for
7.0. And there are at least a couple of
http://www.pcbsd.org/
___
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Let us take this further.
Let's compare BSD to the Linux install solutions. Well, lets not, Linux
is so far ahead of BSD. Linux understands the user.
BSD has a better overall core OS then the other UNIX flavors. The size
to capability is outstanding. Once you have the core OS on the system
> Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:23:48 -0700
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> CC:
> Subject: Sysinstall is still inadequate after all of these years
>
> Hi All,
>
> My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD si
Hi All,
My depressing analysis- YMMV. I've used FreeBSD since 1998.
1..Installing the packages off of the menu on the 3 CDROMs is an incredibly
tedious miserable process. I had to switch out the CD's around 40 times.
If you don't believe me, just mark a whole bunch of random packages after
obtai
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