Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-11 Thread teun spaans
That word had occured to me, but I didnt dare to mention it in this discussion as i had been "warned" here in the past about my usage of that word here, and didnt want to be put on moderation list myself. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Florence Devouard wrote: > Censorship ! > > :) > > On 10/9/

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-11 Thread Florence Devouard
Censorship ! :) On 10/9/10 12:35 AM, Austin Hair wrote: > Peter has been placed on moderation as a preventive measure. If > future posts are still civil, irrespective of sanity considerations, > we'll let them through. > > Austin > > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Peter Damian > wrote: >> I

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-10 Thread Marc Riddell
on 10/10/10 1:44 PM, Nathan at nawr...@gmail.com wrote: > I agree that Peter's post exaggerates the problem the English > Wikipedia sometimes has with groupthink and an entrenched, > self-perpetuating bureaucracy. The comparison is unfair to Liu > Xiaobo's history and work. > > Still, it's ironic

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-10 Thread Nathan
I agree that Peter's post exaggerates the problem the English Wikipedia sometimes has with groupthink and an entrenched, self-perpetuating bureaucracy. The comparison is unfair to Liu Xiaobo's history and work. Still, it's ironic that the first response to his somewhat inflammatory remarks was to

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-09 Thread Fred Bauder
> Дана Saturday 09 October 2010 01:46:43 Fred Bauder написа: >> >> Well, do we actually prevent some viewpoint from being expressed >> >> adequately? >> >> >> >> How about a list? >> >> Well, it's not a promising start, but I have, for example heard a few >> complaints that the views of L

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-09 Thread wiki-list
On 09/10/2010 01:32, SlimVirgin wrote: > > Hard to see how he could have been more obvious. And the result? He's > placed on moderation. :D > I believe the phrase is "swallowed hook, line, and sinker" and in this case it looks like some have leaped into the boat too.

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-09 Thread Nikola Smolenski
Дана Saturday 09 October 2010 01:46:43 Fred Bauder написа: > >> Well, do we actually prevent some viewpoint from being expressed > >> adequately? > >> > >> How about a list? > > Well, it's not a promising start, but I have, for example heard a few > complaints that the views of Lyndon LaRouche were

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Fred Bauder
> I want to get something clear here, however: Is Liu Xiaobo a Wikimedia > user and is it possible that he has been banned from zh.wikipedia? If > so, that is something legitimate to discuss here and continue this > thread. Certainly people of his stature have participated with editing > Wikipe

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Andreas Kolbe
> > If, on the other hand, Peter is actually saying people banned from > > Wikipedia should have their organs harvested and is volunteering, that > > is of course a different matter. > > We could start with his brain cells, as there seems to be > something of a shortage. :) > > His own community

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Robert S. Horning
On 10/08/2010 08:07 PM, Ryan Lomonaco wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Noein wrote: > > >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> I think it is not fair to censor Peter and then still talk about him and >> what he said. One or the other can be justified (and should be),

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Ryan Lomonaco
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Noein wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > I think it is not fair to censor Peter and then still talk about him and > what he said. One or the other can be justified (and should be), but not > both at the same time. > While Peter's intent s

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread shi zhao
about Liu Xiaobo: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_08 Chinese wikipedia: http://zh.wikipedia.org/ My blog: http://shizhao.org twitter: https://twitter.com/shizhao [[zh:User:Shizhao]] 2010/10/9 Peter Damian > I don't know why such fuss has been made in the media about this. Under >

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread SlimVirgin
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 17:14, Phil Nash wrote: > Jonathan Swift was at least plausible in that regard (although satire rather > than irony), because his writing was so obviously pointed that the clever > people got the message and  the stupids didn't. Damian failed in being > inadequately excessiv

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Noein
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I think it is not fair to censor Peter and then still talk about him and what he said. One or the other can be justified (and should be), but not both at the same time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Fred Bauder
>> Well, do we actually prevent some viewpoint from being expressed >> adequately? >> >> How about a list? >> >> Fred Bauder > > I have a better idea. > > Peter is simply too offensive at times to be an unmoderated list > participant. > > No further discussion is needed... Well, it's not a promis

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Phil Nash
Fred Bauder wrote: >> You understood, I'm sure, that he was making an exaggerated >> comparison between the Chinese government's approach to public >> debate and Wikipedia's governance? He clearly believes that Liu >> Xiaobo has been mistreated (which he has been), and also that he and >> others ha

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread George Herbert
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Fred Bauder wrote: > >> >> You understood, I'm sure, that he was making an exaggerated comparison >> between the Chinese government's approach to public debate and >> Wikipedia's governance? He clearly believes that Liu Xiaobo has been >> mistreated (which he has be

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Fred Bauder
> > You understood, I'm sure, that he was making an exaggerated comparison > between the Chinese government's approach to public debate and > Wikipedia's governance? He clearly believes that Liu Xiaobo has been > mistreated (which he has been), and also that he and others have been > mistreated by

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Phil Nash
SlimVirgin wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 16:11, Phil Nash > wrote: >> I expect you might have an apology and weakly-argued defence >> tomorrow, when you might have sobered up, but right now you are on >> thin ice in epistemological terms and are closer to a 17-year old >> newly-"radicalised" stu

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread SlimVirgin
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 16:51, David Gerard wrote: > If, on the other hand, Peter is actually saying people banned from > Wikipedia should have their organs harvested and is volunteering, that > is of course a different matter. We could start with his brain cells, as there seems to be something of

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread SlimVirgin
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 16:11, Phil Nash wrote: > I expect you might have an apology and weakly-argued defence tomorrow, when > you might have sobered up, but right now you are on thin ice in > epistemological terms and are closer to a 17-year old newly-"radicalised" > student than a considered sch

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Phil Nash
Nathan wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Phil Nash > wrote: >> Peter Damian wrote: >>> I don't know why such fuss has been made in the media about this. >>> Under Chinese law, Xiaobo is a criminal who has been sentenced by >>> Chinese judicial >>> departments for violating Chinese law >>> h

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread David Gerard
On 8 October 2010 23:45, Nathan wrote: > You understood, I'm sure, that he was making an exaggerated comparison > between the Chinese government's approach to public debate and > Wikipedia's governance? He clearly believes that Liu Xiaobo has been > mistreated (which he has been), and also that h

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Nathan
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Phil Nash wrote: > Peter Damian wrote: >> I don't know why such fuss has been made in the media about this. >> Under Chinese law, Xiaobo is a criminal who has been sentenced by >> Chinese judicial >> departments for violating Chinese law >> http://blog.foreignpolicy

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Austin Hair
Peter has been placed on moderation as a preventive measure. If future posts are still civil, irrespective of sanity considerations, we'll let them through. Austin On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Peter Damian wrote: > I don't know why such fuss has been made in the media about this.  Under >  

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread M. Williamson
Peter, I've never heard of Wikipedia sentencing anybody to prison. I can't support such a comparison between blocking and real-life prison. Have you ever been jailed yourself? It is not fun. I would much rather be blocked from all Wikimedia projects forever than spend a week in prison, especially i

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Phil Nash
Peter Damian wrote: > I don't know why such fuss has been made in the media about this. > Under Chinese law, Xiaobo is a criminal who has been sentenced by > Chinese judicial > departments for violating Chinese law > http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/461876 His own community has > delivered a ver

Re: [Foundation-l] Liu Xiaobo

2010-10-08 Thread Peter Damian
I don't know why such fuss has been made in the media about this. Under Chinese law, Xiaobo is a criminal who has been sentenced by Chinese judicial departments for violating Chinese law http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/461876 His own community has delivered a verdict upon him: he is a cri