On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Neil Harris wrote:
> On 22/05/11 18:29, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>>
>> We are likely to reach each of the following on the way to our target,
>> and it would be great to announce them when we reach them:
>> 1 90% of literate people have a version of wikipedia avai
Hoi,
Having projects that rely on volunteers does not mean that what they do is
without consequence. The policy of the language committee insists on
requirements. They have to be met. One of the things we consider is the
involvement of native speakers ... In the language committee we are
volunteers
On 05/28/2011 05:02 PM, Mark wrote:
> On 5/26/11 3:05 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> * If literacy is low and there are no efforts to improve it, efforts
>> should go that way.
>> * Is it about the language without writing system? If yes, efforts
>> should go that way.
>
> I guess I'd say what efforts
On 5/26/11 3:05 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> * If literacy is low and there are no efforts to improve it, efforts
> should go that way.
> * Is it about the language without writing system? If yes, efforts
> should go that way.
I guess I'd say what efforts "should" be taken should depend on what the
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Neil Harris wrote:
> As part of the WMF's mission, I wonder if it could be worth considering
> providing a Web-based English (or other language) literacy course that
> could start with very simple video lessons to give an elementary
> vocabulary first, and then al
On 05/26/2011 07:30 PM, M. Williamson wrote:
> Having a test project doesn't necessarily mean community interest;
> having a test project with dozens of articles might indicate that. In
> many cases, users with no relation to the language (in particular,
> User:Jose77) have started test wikis with
Having a test project doesn't necessarily mean community interest;
having a test project with dozens of articles might indicate that. In
many cases, users with no relation to the language (in particular,
User:Jose77) have started test wikis with text all in English for
hundreds of languages. So the
On 05/23/2011 12:58 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> Here is the article at Strategy wiki:
> http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Missing_Wikipedias
>
> Some important ideas have been mentioned during this discussion. Feel
> free to add them there.
>
Copied from [1]
I've started to categorize languages
An'n 24.05.2011 19:13, hett Ilario Valdelli schreven:
> On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:47 PM, wrote:
>> A single dedicated person could be enough to put a project in motion.
>> A dean of a Nigerian college who integrates Wikipedia article creation
>> in the instruction plan ("if you create 200 Nigerian
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 4:47 PM, wrote:
> A single dedicated person could be enough to put a project in motion.
> A dean of a Nigerian college who integrates Wikipedia article creation
> in the instruction plan ("if you create 200 Nigerian pidgin Wikipedia
> articles this semester you'll get X ex
Zitat von m...@marcusbuck.org:
> A supply of content is a prerequisite to stimulate demand in content.
>
> After
> all one of the biggest problems of a fledgling Wikipedia is that few
> people have the dedication to work on a project that will probably not
> "take off" for years to come. It's eas
Zitat von Ilario Valdelli :
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> I am preparing document for Wikimania. Presently, I am in process of
>> analyzing data (SIL [1], Ethnologue [2], Wikimedia projects). I am using
>> Ethnologue data for population estimates.
>>
>
> The statistic
On 05/24/2011 03:03 PM, Ilario Valdelli wrote:
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> I am preparing document for Wikimania. Presently, I am in process of
>> analyzing data (SIL [1], Ethnologue [2], Wikimedia projects). I am using
>> Ethnologue data for population estimates.
>>
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> I am preparing document for Wikimania. Presently, I am in process of
> analyzing data (SIL [1], Ethnologue [2], Wikimedia projects). I am using
> Ethnologue data for population estimates.
>
The statistics are not realistic considering only th
An'n 23.05.2011 17:37, hett Ziko van Dijk schreven:
> I am even more pessimistic. Of course, Wikipedia exits in many
> languages, but many Wikipedia language versions are still quite small
> and of low quality, typical encyclopedias-to-become, but still no
> really useful encyclopedias by now.
If w
Clearly, at least at this point, it is probably unreasonable to target
any languages with less than 100,000 native speakers; of course, if
there is community interest I think they should get Wikipedias, but
the 70 million or so human beings who speak languages with less than
100k speakers are likel
Ziko,
In my experience, these tend to be in smaller languages, for example
pacific island languages or certain Native American languages. In a
few cases, it's probably due to low internet access or preference for
English among those who do have access, such as for some African
languages. Most of t
More data. This is about all living languages, just to get a clue about
what is reasonable to do and what is not.
Number of languages and number of speakers for languages categorized by
number of speakers (you can get more nice wikitable at [1]):
category: number of languages, total number of spe
Hello,
I am even more pessimistic. Of course, Wikipedia exits in many
languages, but many Wikipedia language versions are still quite small
and of low quality, typical encyclopedias-to-become, but still no
really useful encyclopedias by now.
Kind regards
Ziko
2011/5/23 Milos Rancic :
> On 05/23/2
On 22/05/11 18:29, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>
> We are likely to reach each of the following on the way to our target,
> and it would be great to announce them when we reach them:
> 1 90% of literate people have a version of wikipedia available in a
> language that they understand
> 2 95% of litera
On 05/23/2011 03:04 PM, M. Williamson wrote:
> When words are from the same root, the same character is generally
> used regardless of modern pronunciation. In Traditional Chinese,
> phonetic elements are mostly based on older pronunciations which might
> not make sense in all modern Sinitic langua
When words are from the same root, the same character is generally
used regardless of modern pronunciation. In Traditional Chinese,
phonetic elements are mostly based on older pronunciations which might
not make sense in all modern Sinitic languages; sometimes in
Simplified Chinese these are replac
Here is the article at Strategy wiki:
http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Missing_Wikipedias
Some important ideas have been mentioned during this discussion. Feel
free to add them there.
___
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On 05/23/2011 10:55 AM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> On 05/23/2011 10:33 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>>> In Chinese writing a character shows a word, irrespective of how the
>>> word is pronounced. So if we would use a Chinese style writing system,
>>> you could write [your] [dog] [is] [dead], and a Frenc
On 05/23/2011 10:33 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> In Chinese writing a character shows a word, irrespective of how the
>> word is pronounced. So if we would use a Chinese style writing system,
>> you could write [your] [dog] [is] [dead], and a Frenchman would write
>> exactly the same, even though he
On 05/23/2011 10:33 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> In Chinese writing a character shows a word, irrespective of how the
>> word is pronounced. So if we would use a Chinese style writing system,
>> you could write [your] [dog] [is] [dead], and a Frenchman would write
>> exactly the same, even though he
On 05/23/2011 10:33 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> This method is still sometimes used to form new characters, for example
> 钚 bù "plutonium") is the metal radical 金 jīn plus the phonetic
> component 不 bù, described in Chinese as "不 gives sound, 金 gives
> meaning". Many Chinese names of elements in the
On 05/22/2011 07:39 PM, Andre Engels wrote:
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:13 PM, wrote:
>
>> You're missing my point.
>> All the Latin languages "share a common writing system" and "only differ in
>> the way the language is spoken".
>>
>> Address the point that the "words" within the system have t
Sorry Milos, systematic bias at work there :)
I mean... English Wikipedia has the largest collection of content, and on
average I would guess that the content is of a higher, or at least a more
complete, quality than most other language wiki's. Computer forensics... is
relatively decent on en-wp;
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 5:30 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:
>(excellent long form work)
Thank you, Milos. Very informative.
Out of curiosity - I assume those are the "native speakers" counts for
that language. Do we have "exclusive speakers" counts as well?
I don't know for sure what the right answe
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 06:41 PM, Thomas Morton wrote:
>> An interesting "aside" on this would be...
>>
>> What is the quality of the foreign-language Wiki's that currently exist. For
>> example; the articles in my specific technical topic area have a
On 05/22/2011 06:41 PM, Thomas Morton wrote:
> An interesting "aside" on this would be...
>
> What is the quality of the foreign-language Wiki's that currently exist. For
> example; the articles in my specific technical topic area have a few foreign
> language equivalents. Most are two or three li
Дана Sunday 22 May 2011 19:53:20 wjhon...@aol.com написа:
> So if you are claiming that the sole differences are pronunciation, then
> this language should be removed from the list of ones lacking a project.
> I'm not certain however that that claim can be supported.
Given that no one of us is pa
In a message dated 5/22/2011 10:39:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
andreeng...@gmail.com writes:
> In Chinese writing a character shows a word, irrespective of how the
> word is pronounced. So if we would use a Chinese style writing system,
> you could write [your] [dog] [is] [dead], and a Frenchma
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:13 PM, wrote:
> You're missing my point.
> All the Latin languages "share a common writing system" and "only differ in
> the way the language is spoken".
>
> Address the point that the "words" within the system have the same semantic
> *meaning* and are formed with the
I agree Meta would be the right place for such a table. But a few
other columns would be helpful:
1 Technical barriers. Do we need to make changes to Media Wiki
Software, and are we dependent on changes to Lynux etc in order to
enable people to edit in that language?
2 Literate population. This al
Hoi,
Please read about the Chinese language and writing system. It helps you to
understand.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 22 May 2011 18:42, wrote:
> In a message dated 5/22/2011 4:38:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> smole...@eunet.rs writes:
>
>
> > Aren't these languages written with Chinese charact
In a message dated 5/22/2011 9:53:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
li...@caseybrown.org writes:
> Indeed, it doesn't mean that necessarily. However, your analogy
> doesn't apply in this situation and Nikola was right. Many of the
> Chinese languages share a common writing system and only differ in
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 12:42 PM, wrote:
>> Aren't these languages written with Chinese characters and thus their
>> speakers can read and write the Chinese Wikipedia?
>>
>
> All the Latin languages: Italian, French, Spanish, English, and so on are
> written with Latin characters: a, b, c, d, e a
In a message dated 5/22/2011 4:38:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
smole...@eunet.rs writes:
> Aren't these languages written with Chinese characters and thus their
> speakers can read and write the Chinese Wikipedia?
>
All the Latin languages: Italian, French, Spanish, English, and so on are
wri
An interesting "aside" on this would be...
What is the quality of the foreign-language Wiki's that currently exist. For
example; the articles in my specific technical topic area have a few foreign
language equivalents. Most are two or three lines.
It would be interesting to see this question expa
On 05/22/2011 04:57 PM, Yaroslav M. Blanter wrote:
>
> On Sun, 22 May 2011 14:08:14 +0200, Milos Rancic
> wrote:
>> On 05/22/2011 01:22 PM, Denny Vrandecic wrote:
>>> Can you also provide at least a rough estimate of the number of humans
>>> who don't have Wikipedia in any language they speak rea
On Sun, 22 May 2011 14:08:14 +0200, Milos Rancic
wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 01:22 PM, Denny Vrandecic wrote:
>> Can you also provide at least a rough estimate of the number of humans
>> who don't have Wikipedia in any language they speak reasonably well
>> (understanding very well that this is a hard
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> Those are preliminary results. We have two chapters (and strategic
> focus) in countries of the list above. Inside of the longer list, which
> should be verified, we have more chapters. I noted that there are even
> two languages of Germany w
Hi Milos, thanks for those interesting facts!
On 05/22/2011 01:15 PM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> Those are preliminary results. We have two chapters (and strategic
> focus) in countries of the list above. Inside of the longer list,
> which should be verified, we have more chapters. I noted that there
On 05/22/2011 03:20 PM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> Yea, but how much is any of these different? They may be practically the
> same or possible to be added as a variant of Chinese.
I don't know, but the known fact is that even the languages in the
closest families, like Slavic languages are, have di
On 05/22/2011 03:22 PM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 14:32 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> On 05/22/2011 01:28 PM, George Herbert wrote:
>>> Can you break this out by which languages we are missing, not just
>> by
>>> country, as country isn't specific enough?
>>
>> Waiting for lis
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 14:32 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 01:28 PM, George Herbert wrote:
> > Can you break this out by which languages we are missing, not just
> by
> > country, as country isn't specific enough?
>
> Waiting for list admins to allow ~250k mail :)
If only someone woul
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 14:47 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 01:37 PM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 13:15 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote:
> >> * Jin Chinese, 45M, China
> >> * Xiang Chinese, 36, China, incubator
> >> * Min Bei Chinese, 10.3M, China, incubator
> >
> > Aren
On 05/22/2011 01:37 PM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 13:15 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> * Jin Chinese, 45M, China
>> * Xiang Chinese, 36, China, incubator
>> * Min Bei Chinese, 10.3M, China, incubator
>
> Aren't these languages written with Chinese characters and thus their
> s
On 05/22/2011 01:28 PM, George Herbert wrote:
> Good work generally, but regarding this last list...
>
> Afghanistan has many languages in use (Pashto, Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek);
> Algeria uses Arabic, Berber, and French; Jordan's official language
> is Arabic (though the spoken one is a dialect); an
On 05/22/2011 01:22 PM, Denny Vrandecic wrote:
> Can you also provide at least a rough estimate of the number of humans who
> don't have Wikipedia in any language they speak reasonably well
> (understanding very well that this is a hard problem of definition)?
I would say that the number humans
On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 13:15 +0200, Milos Rancic wrote:
> * Jin Chinese, 45M, China
> * Xiang Chinese, 36, China, incubator
> * Min Bei Chinese, 10.3M, China, incubator
Aren't these languages written with Chinese characters and thus their
speakers can read and write the Chinese Wikipedia?
___
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 4:15 AM, Milos Rancic wrote:
> I am preparing document for Wikimania. Presently, I am in process of
> analyzing data (SIL [1], Ethnologue [2], Wikimedia projects). I am using
> Ethnologue data for population estimates.
>
> Before I started this task, I thought that the situ
Can you also provide at least a rough estimate of the number of humans who
don't have Wikipedia in any language they speak reasonably well (understanding
very well that this is a hard problem of definition)?
Curious.
On May 22, 2011, at 14:15, Milos Rancic wrote:
> I am preparing document for
I am preparing document for Wikimania. Presently, I am in process of
analyzing data (SIL [1], Ethnologue [2], Wikimedia projects). I am using
Ethnologue data for population estimates.
Before I started this task, I thought that the situation is not so bad
(or good, if it is about possibility for de
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