Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 21.06.2021 um 10:45 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, Denis Maier writes: Using a space for this is perhaps too subtle as you say. Also, the question is which one should be the default. I'd actually suggest to turn it around: "A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-whole

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hi, Am 21.06.2021 um 10:45 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, Denis Maier writes: Using a space for this is perhaps too subtle as you say. Also, the question is which one should be the default. I'd actually suggest to turn it around: "A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, Denis Maier writes: > Using a space for this is perhaps too subtle as you say. Also, the > question is which one should be the default. I'd actually suggest to > turn it around: > >"A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-whole]. >"A quotation ending with a period"

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 20.06.2021 um 09:41 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier wrote: * Note style input (=semantically strict input) "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole] "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 3:41 AM Nicolas Goaziou > wrote: >> As another, imperfect, workaround, I submit the following idea for >> consideration: >> >> "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. >> "A quotation ending with a period"[ci

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 3:41 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: ... > > The example you are highlighlighting here was why I was earlier > > suggesting for a rule that would allow something like this input: > > > > "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. > > > > ... where the second wo

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier wrote: >> * Note style input (=semantically strict input) >> >> "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole] >> >> "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @hoel-71-whole] >> >> As the input pres

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Missing word on the key sentence ... On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:37 PM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > The example you are highlighlighting here was why I was earlier > suggesting for a rule that would allow something like this input: > > "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. > > ...

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier wrote: > > Below a few examples of what I mean. > > WDYT? Am I missing something? > > Denis > === > #+cite_export: csl > #+cite_export: csl > "C:/Users/denis/Zotero/styles/chicago-note-bibliography

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Just one addition: I think it will be perfectly fine if the current suggestion is added now. I guess adding additional features later will be always possible, right? I don't know what the plans are for the next org release, and I don't want this question here to stand in the way. Denis Am 14.

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Below a few examples of what I mean. WDYT? Am I missing something? Denis === #+cite_export: csl #+cite_export: csl "C:/Users/denis/Zotero/styles/chicago-note-bibliography.csl" #+bibliography: test.bib * Original source "A quotation endi

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

I'll let you two sort it out; I don't have a position. On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 3:23 PM Denis Maier wrote: > > Bruce D'Arcus hat am 14.06.2021 00:04 geschrieben: > > > Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope, > > IIRC, it was out of scope ATM. > > and gave a reasonable explanation why (becau

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Bruce D'Arcus hat am 14.06.2021 00:04 geschrieben: Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope, IIRC, it was out of scope ATM. and gave a reasonable explanation why (because much harder to reconstruc

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Nicolas explained the reverse is out of scope, and gave a reasonable explanation why (because much harder to reconstruct missing information IIRC). On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 2:54 PM Denis Maier wrote: > Am 12.06.2021 um 11:39 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: > > Hello, > > > > Denis Maier writes: > > > >>

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 12.06.2021 um 11:39 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, Denis Maier writes: Yes, good this is coming. As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more support for note numbers handling. I added three customizable variables: - org-cite-adjust-note-numbers, which simply allows the

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hi Nicolas, thanks for all your work on this. I've been busy lately, but I'll try to test ASAP. (Might take a few though, just to list you know.) Denis Nicolas Goaziou hat am 13.06.2021 00:04 geschrieben:

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 6:04 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Of course, different punctuation marks exist, so characters are at least > locale-dependant. But I don't know if the set is entirely determined by > the locale or if it also depends on the "style" of the document. It's a good question. I n

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: >> - I'm not sure about the `org-cite-punctuation-marks' variable being >> global, i.e., not locale-specific. > > One of the things I've wondered about, but cannot offer any expertise > on (really, I have no clue), is how this might work for languages like > Arab

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

I'm not able to test this closely ATM, but a few things ... On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 5:39 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > Hello, > > Denis Maier writes: > > > Yes, good this is coming. > > As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more support for > note numbers handling. > > I added th

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, Denis Maier writes: > Yes, good this is coming. As a step forward, I rebased wip-cite-new branch with more support for note numbers handling. I added three customizable variables: - org-cite-adjust-note-numbers, which simply allows the user to toggle punctuation and note number movin

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hi, Am 05.06.2021 um 23:45 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 5:35 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: Getting back to this thread… I'd like to see it moving forward. Yes. This is the last missing piece I see! Yes, good this is coming. You lost me here. Punctuation moving was implemente

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 5:35 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > Getting back to this thread… I'd like to see it moving forward. Yes. This is the last missing piece I see! > You lost me here. Punctuation moving was implemented with notes cites in > mind (much like Pandoc, I think). Correct. And also bi

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, Denis Maier writes: > I think there are a couple of options and combinations thereof: > > 1. Do nothing special, just treat block quotations like regular paragraphs. > > 2. Don't apply this punctuation-manipulation to blockquotes at all, i.e. > let authors handle this manually. > > 3. Ad

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 17.05.2021 um 00:24 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 6:03 PM Denis Maier wrote: Am 16.05.2021 um 23:38 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: Can you clarify the rule/situation that would use that approach? Chicago Manual of Style 15.26: "When the source of a block quotation is gi

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 6:03 PM Denis Maier wrote: > > Am 16.05.2021 um 23:38 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: > > Can you clarify the rule/situation that would use that approach? > > > > Chicago Manual of Style 15.26: > "When the source of a block quotation is given in parentheses at the end > of th

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 16.05.2021 um 23:38 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 5:29 PM Denis Maier wrote: ... There's only one further complication: if the quotation is a set off block quote, the citation comes after the punctuation mark: This is a complete sentence. (author year) I've not seen that

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 5:29 PM Denis Maier wrote: ... > There's only one further complication: if the quotation is a set off > block quote, the citation comes after the punctuation mark: > This is a complete sentence. (author year) I've not seen that with the cases I'm familiar with (US and UK

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 15.05.2021 um 13:56 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, [...] At the moment, the `org-cite-adjust-punctuation' function is designed with author-year to note conversion in mind, not the other way. I don't have enough examples of the opposite transformation to even be sure the current interface

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 8:03 AM Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > > On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 7:56 AM Nicolas Goaziou > wrote: ... > > In any case, this explains why the docstring has a bias. I updated it to > > insist on the fact that these are rules for author-year to note > > conversion. > > FWIW, I agr

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 7:56 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: ... > At the moment, the `org-cite-adjust-punctuation' function is designed > with author-year to note conversion in mind, not the other way. I don't > have enough examples of the opposite transformation to even be sure the > current interfa

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, Denis Maier writes: > Am 13.05.2021 um 23:33 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: >> Hello, >> [...] >>RULE is a triplet of symbols (PUNCT POSITION RELATIVE): >> PUNCT is the desired location of the punctuation with regards >> to the >> quotation, if any. It may be `inside', `outside',

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, Denis Maier writes: > Regarding French typography. > With this example: > --- > > #+language: fr > #+cite_export: test > > "This is a complete sentence."[cite:@key] > > "This is an incomplete sentence" [cite:@key]. [...] > I'm getting: > >

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hi, (strict inside before) corresponds to French typography. Regarding French typography. With this example: --- #+language: fr #+cite_export: test "This is a complete sentence."[cite:@key] "This is an incomplete sentence" [cite:@key]. "

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 4:44 AM Denis Maier wrote: > These things are not only language dependent, but depend also on the > chosen citation style. E.g. with in-text styles you'll have (outside > outside before) in German, and American typography, in French likely as > well. > So, perhaps another

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 6:26 AM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > > Hello, > > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > > > But I get this error when I run the export to test. > > > > org-export-as: Wrong number of arguments: # > org-macro-initialize-templates>, 1 > > This looks like an unrelated error. Just confirming

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > But I get this error when I run the export to test. > > org-export-as: Wrong number of arguments: # org-macro-initialize-templates>, 1 This looks like an unrelated error. > > Not sure what I'm doing wrong; I: > > 1. pulled the branch > 2. ran make You probably

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 13.05.2021 um 23:33 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: Hello, [...] RULE is a triplet of symbols (PUNCT POSITION RELATIVE): PUNCT is the desired location of the punctuation with regards to the quotation, if any. It may be `inside', `outside', or`strict', the latter meaning the punc

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Am 14.05.2021 um 01:21 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus: On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 5:33 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: WDYT? Looks really good; thanks for this! But I get this error when I run the export to test. org-export-as: Wrong number of arguments: #, 1 Not sure what I'm doing wrong; I: 1. pul

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 5:33 PM Nicolas Goaziou wrote: > WDYT? Looks really good; thanks for this! But I get this error when I run the export to test. org-export-as: Wrong number of arguments: #, 1 Not sure what I'm doing wrong; I: 1. pulled the branch 2. ran make 3. evaled your "test"

Re: [wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Thanks Nicolas! That looks quite good already. Your test cases give good results for German. I've also added another language property for when you want to switch to an in-text citation style: (defun org-test--language-to-rule (info) (pcase (plist-get info :language) ("en-us" '(inside ou

[wip-cite-new] Adjust punctuation around citations

Hello, Following discussion with Bruce D'Arcus and Denis Maier, I pushed, in the "wip-cite-new" branch, the first version of a tool for adjusting the location of the citation and surrounding punctuation according to fixed rules. The name is `org-cite-adjust-punctuation' and its docstring is: Ad