rest (including Apache httpd)
breaks.
2. Test mdev for server deployments. (Dump udev.)
3. Test grsecurity / PaX-patched kernels and see how much other
Freedesktop.org cruft can be eliminated without functional problems.
E.g., what if anything actually needs
ders a beer.
Rick MoenOrders 0 beers. Orders 9 beers. Orders
r...@linuxmafia.com a lizard. Orders -1 beers. Orders a sfdeljknesv.
McQ! (4x80) -- @sempf, https://www.sempf.net/post/On-Testing1.aspx
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Quoting Jaromil (jaro...@dyne.org):
> yes I recall your help facing that meshuggah guy aggressing me and the
> whole drama and the wikipedia cancelation and all that at the
> beginning of Devuan. and I really appreciated your words of
> encouragement, advice and experience :^)
You are entirely we
Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org):
> I personally don't see the reason for such a reaction on your side
> Rick (BTW, welcome here :)), but I am sure I am missing something. I
> personally believe that all the work to avoid and contain systemd and
> other nonsense is valuable, independently of
Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org):
> Wait :) First of all, I might have been unclear in the previous email,
> but I really appreciate your work, and that of others who are making
> an effort to contain systemd. So there is no reason to start a fight:
> that's not my intention at all, and woul
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> Deeeude, that's not what you're saying over on SVLUG. I quote:
>
> * Far as I can tell, Devuan was a operatic overreaction, and by no means
> the most efficient way to deal with the problem.
>
> * "Nor did it merit a fork, IMO."
>
> * "Th
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> In lieu of the apology I'll post links to the emails from which I took
> those quotes, so all interested can see their context in the email and
> in the thread:
Absolutely. I would really appreciate everyone seeing the full context
and noting the
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> The only problem comes in when you express the opinion (and fair
> enough, you state it's your opinion) that forking Debian was whichever expression you want>, without adding the vital words "for my
> use case." Had you added those four words, the
Following up on 'DE doesn't let user shutdown/reboot'.
I wrote:
> I've heard of some DE glue not working if you lack PolKit and/or upower
> _by default_, but can't remember details. It was something like XFCE4's
> shutdown graphical controls didn't work until you retofit optional
> package blah
g into the prolonged emails that compose it :D
Well, I'm glad of that, anyway, too.
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Quoting KatolaZ (kato...@freaknet.org):
> Look Rick, Devuan is exactly trying to do this, in a consistent and
> comprehensive way, well before it will be too late.
Exactly! I'm not only well aware of this, but mention it with approval
on my OpenRC conversion Web page.
> I think I know very well
Quoting Jaromil (jaro...@dyne.org):
> dear Rick I did not expect you to use 'shutdown -h now'!
> the real old school thing is 'init 0' (or 'init 6' for reboot) :^)
Techically, I believe that's supposed to be 'telinit'. ;->
[init system coupling General Resolution:]
> I believe this is the bes
Quoting Harald Arnesen (har...@skogtun.org):
> Rick Moen [2016-07-14 11:24]:
>
> > [1] 'litte-datamashin' is my laptop (hostname means 'little computer' in
> > Norwegian).
>
> Sorry, no. In Norwegian, that would be 'liten datamaskin'.
Quoting Rick Moen (r...@linuxmafia.com):
> I know. The 'h' was a typo -- and I spotted it with considerable chagrin
> just after posting. (I was far too tired.)
But the 'litte' was a genuine blunder from someone who is learning norsk
as a third languag
ly like another fantasy apocalpse, like the fellow
upthread who was burbling about a future systemd dependency in GNU libc.
Caution about CADTware is laudable, but -- seriously: GNU screen and
tmux? I really don't think so.
> I really hope Devuan will be proven wrong by a stro
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> libsystemd0] is "part" of systemd, and I assume systemd won't work without it.
Question: What does it do _without_ systemd?
I think you know the answer. Nothing at all. Rein du tout. But, as I
said on my Web page, if worried about that, just m
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> You didn't read what I wrote did you ?
I most certainly did. And I make no apologies for mildly mocking you
for speaking about a 'trojan', as that was patently ridiculous, and you
know it.
> It may be "inert" now - well actually it isn't complete
Quoting dev (devua...@gmail.com):
> Sure, why not?
1. I notice you curiously dropped off the mailing list into private
mail. Sorry, I wasn't really interested in a private discussion.
2. I notice you weren't interested in that wager.
So, just rhetorical overload, as expected.
> Glibc is ju
I'm sorry, it's the middle of the night here, and I shouldn't be
responding to mail. I didn't notice that the private copy was a _Cc_,
and otherwise would not have spoken in that tone.
As is the way of such things, I realised my error a split-second after
the Send command.
__
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > 'Doing' something that is functionally indistinguishable from doing
> > nothing. And a '000' rights mask would be fully effective paranoia
> > insurance.
>
> Presen
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> I want to give a little bit of constructive criticism.
>
> "A fool is known by a multitude of words." That is not to say you
> are fool. I don't know you. However, everyone is pretty busy. So if
> you want to express something accurately, minimize verbia
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> I'd suggest the display manager we use not be part of a window manager
> or desktop environment. With all the things that have been going on in
> the Linux world the past couple years, I prefer my parts independent
> unless I'm using the whole pack
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> Due to my needs, my situation, my beliefs, and my skillset, an OS from
> the Debian project doesn't work for me. I've said why about 15 times on
> two mailing lists. For *me*, what works is the Devuan fork. So for me,
> the situation merited a for
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Whether he uses Devuan in a virtual machine is not directly relevant
> to me. I appreciate that when he's tinkering with the innards of a
> distro it may be vastly convenient to do it in a virtual machine
> rather than bare metal, expecially if thi
Quoting aitor_czr (aitor_...@gnuinos.org):
> On 07/16/2016 10:15 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> >Iron-clad proof that Bill Gates owns Fort Knox. ;->
>
> Linuxmafia ??
I did get a very bemused mail from the main organiser of Linux Silicia,
because of the domain name. (It does hav
Sorry about typo.
> I did get a very bemused mail from the main organiser of Linux Silicia,
> because of the domain name.^^^
Sicilia, even.
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Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> That's the point - I never suggested it didn't. But it doesn't work
> for me - as in that's not a route I'm happy taking in order to deal
> with it.
I wouldn't dream of arguing against people's likes.
> Thank you for that link, I was aware of the
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> The purpose of libsystemd0 is to enable packages whose code has been
> 'enhanced' with spurious systemd depedencies to work on systemd-less
> systems. That's absolutely not harmless.
Your implied concept of 'purpose' is IMO a bit problematically
Quoting Dragan FOSS (dragan.f...@gmx.com):
> >The purpose of libsystemd0 is to enable packages whose code has been
> >'enhanced' with spurious systemd depedencies to work on systemd-less
> >systems. That's absolutely not harmless.
>
> So, why not remove it? ;>
> TRIOS == excellence in simplicity
Quoting aitor_czr (aitor_...@gnuinos.org):
> The substitute for MySQL is MariaDB :)
What you said. ;-> MariaDB is a 100% compatible workalike
(binary drop-in replacement).
https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/
I'm personally also very fond of Drizzle, a cleaned-up,
nd answering
source code. (I won't bother, because I really have no interest at all
in GNOME, and prefer to avoid it.)
GNOME is a brittle dependency hairball. Surely that fact is clear, if
nothing else is.
--
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rally speaking anyone
with physical console access can force reboot one way or another anyway.
--
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Rick Moendonne point la sagesse d'en profiter. »
r...@linuxmafia.com
and pronounced our security design 'sneaky' (meaning this as a
compliment).
--
Cheers, « On donne des conseils, mais on ne
Rick Moendonne point la sagesse d'en profiter. »
r...@linuxmafia.com
Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no):
> Simon Walter writes:
>
>> Oh the insolence. Amazing. "You're holding it wrong" comes to
>> mind. There is this guy named Lennart who might agree with you.
>
> Quite likely he might, he's not stupid after all. And I agree too:
> Multiseat is
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > That doesn't logically follow. My guesstimate is that some GNOME
> > plumbing is checking for some library function before it offers
> > the user 'removable drives [...] on the desk
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> >I have to confess that I personally didn't understand how multiseat
> >differs from multiuser on Linux until quite recently. Pro bono publico:
> >It concerns simultaneous _local_ users.
>
> Does that include serial devices?
Excellent question. I am
Quoting Tomasz Torcz (to...@pipebreaker.pl):
> So it would be sensible to ask for root password IF there are other
> (remote) users logged in. If there is no one logged in, shutdown/reboot
> should be possible without entering root password.
You speak as if the consequences of host shutdown (or
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> Where does Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP, http://www.ltsp.org/)
> fit into this discussion?
It fits logically into the 'effective use of autonomous host w/console
stations having the independent local processing ability that mere
consoles la
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > Remember that bit I posted about how /usr/bin/ssh makes dynamic library
> > calls to sonames of two Kerberos libraries, even on the overwhelming
> > majority of systems that do not implement Kerber
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Rick, I don't understand your reasoning here. What I see is that gvfs
> can do something when the real libsystemd0 is installed that it can't
> do without libsystemd0 - that is, it shows removable drives on the
> desktop. The presence of systemd itself i
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016 10:08:01 -0700
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > It fits logically into the 'effective use of autonomous host w/console
> > stations having the independent local processing ability that mere
> > co
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> OK, I think I see. I was assuming that there's no graphical terminal
> cheaper than a cheap commodity computer with mobo. To the extent that
> there are graphical terminals cheaper than commodity computers, it
> makes sense.
Yeah, well, you put yo
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Yeah, I know there's a lot of gnome in xfce, and gnome virtual file
> system does sound familiar. Happily, I've been getting along fine
> without gvfs since upgrading to devuan jessie about six months ago.
> I'm ok with xfce like this, and I'm ok with a p
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> I have two reasons someone (not me, but somebody) would prefer to start
> up in a GUI:
>
> 1) Some members of my family consider it an immense challenge to have
>to remember to input their username and password at the console,
>recognize t
Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no):
> Reminds me of the story about the airline captain who took the mike
> to apologise to the passengers for a delay: "I was held up in the
> security control, they were worried that I might seize control of
> the airplane."
Funny that you should
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > This is a bit silly
>
> TBH, I'm finding most of your argument a bit silly too. So we might as well
> drop it
Works for me!
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Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> Oh, you must have missed my last report. Surely, you would agree that
> executing an executable file is doing something.
No, I didn't miss that. libsystemd0 didn't do anything, by your own
account. By said account, some piece of GNOME infrastructure to
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> In any case, any person who has the possibility to push the
> power button or cut the power cord should be given the opportunity
> to click the halt button instead. ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del can be
> used to reboot, but there's nothing to halt.
Halt is accom
Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no):
> Rick Moen writes:
> >Funny that you should mention that: You might actually have seen that
> >tale as related by _me_ on Risks Digest.
>
> The substance is similar but the wording unfamiliar. Could it
> possibly
Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):
> An orderly shutdown is better than an unclean one, thus any display
> manager that forbids local users to shutdown is buggy.
Let me tell you a metaphor, to sneak up on why it's not that simple.
I have a sign at the entrance to my garden. For contex
s a very appropriately
cautious one.
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Rick Moen
r...@linuxmafia.com
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Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> Rick Moen wrote:
>
> > That's what it's like to be among the lucky 10,000!
> > https://xkcd.com/1053/
>
> For the past 25 years, I shake my head in amazement at the profound
> stupidity of myself at an ag
.)
--
Cheers, "On American pronunciation: You say erbs and we
Rick Moensay herbs. Because, you know, there's an H in it."
r...@linuxmafia.com -- Eddie Izzard
McQ! (4x80)
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utiliser la belle langue.)
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Rick Moendonne point la sagesse d'en profiter. »
r...@linuxmafia.com -- La Rochefoucauld
McQ! (4x80)
t terminal support in _two_ places.
Merci à Dieu pour UTF-8. ;-> (Mon passeport américain peut être annulé
pour le dire.)
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Rick Moendonne point la sagesse
net, peu importe où je suis,
moi-même.
--
Cheers,"Why struggle to open a door between us,
Rick Moen when the whole wall is an illusion?"
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Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):
> ..bytt ut "inn" med "på", rett oversatt skal dette være:
> "Jeg kan også skrive på mitt tredje språk." ;o)
I'm learning, though, and I thank you. ;->
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being substantially worse in
the meantime than the Kerberos5 libraries also hauled in by overbroad
package dependencies but likewise doing nothing at all. Frankly, I
consider udev more significant by a country mile -- or, make that a
country kilometre, since we're now living in the 21st Century.
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Rick Moen
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Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Don't remember which package depends on some libkerberos5.
> Assuming it's openssh or some component of pam.
Package openssh-client.
$ ldd $(which ssh)
linux-gate.so.1 => (0xb76ec000)
libresolv.so.2 => /lib/i686/cmov/libresolv.so.2 (0xb767
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Would it make any sense to have systemd with no application
> talking to it?
Someone (not me, but someone) might want it as an init system. ;->
(Infamously, the thing aspires to be many more things, but somewhere
inside that mess there _is_ an init system:
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> Here, AFAIU, systemd is different, it requires daemons to
> communicate with it using its own library, so that it forces itself
> into all the daemons.
I am reasonably confident that systemd in its role as an init can start
and stop services that have no dep
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> I didn't expect you to stop the attempt to get a 'religious angle' into
> this just because I pointed out that your interpretation was completely
> wrong.
I honestly don't understand the hostility, Rainier: It seems like
anything I say you int
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> To re-iterate this:
[more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
that library libsystemd0 can be used to insert 'calls' into unrelated
applications -- which assertion in my view does not seem correct, if I
am parsin
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I think what he means, is that it allows devs/packagers to insert
> these calls and still have something that runs when systemd itself
> isn't installed. Not that the lib itself installs such calls.
First, thanks. (I seriously wasn't trying to ign
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> Thanks, a bit heavy going for me at this time in the morning !
Well, if you want to learn the subject, there's an irreducible minimum
of complexity, you know, but it was mostly a citation I gave as an
accuracy cross-check on my ultra-quick extempor
ensemble. But as
Prince Orlovsky said in 'Die Fledermaus', Chacun à son goût:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6uEmtn56M0 )
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Rick Moen but no
ly ignore the
former because of vastly excessive traffic -- but have no connection to
the project. I just use some of its software.)
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Rick Moen
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> And you've gone on to keep extrapolating that "that's all a library does".
No, that's all that _this_ library does. And, no, I did not
'extrapolate' anything. If you think so, you didn't read what I wrote
correctly, and ought to fix that.
libsys
Quoting Go Linux (goli...@yahoo.com):
> This is a must read on the politics and votes that ensured a systemd future
> for debian:
> http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652
To my astonishment and pleasure, I found this well argued, reasonable,
and a good effort to cast light on a com
Quoting dev (devua...@gmail.com):
> On 07/26/2016 04:26 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
>
> >libsystemd0's status as a bundle of interface code that does nothing in
> >the absence of systemd is not because it's a library -- obviously -- but
> >rather because all it _con
Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> Rick Moen writes:
> > Quoting Rainer Weikusat (rweiku...@talktalk.net):
> >
> >> To re-iterate this:
> >
> > [more very strangely worded, difficult-to-parse prose, seemingly alleging
> > that librar
[I made an overdue Subject header change.]
Quoting fsmithred (fsmith...@gmail.com):
> I did try both of those, and we clearly have different tastes. My first
> impressions of LXQt are that it's as pretty as IceWM (pretty ugly) at
> twice the ram, but at least it has graphical configuration tools
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> On 07/27/2016 01:56 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
> >Quoting Go Linux (goli...@yahoo.com):
> >
> >>This is a must read on the politics and votes that ensured a systemd future
> >>for debian:
> >>http://forums.debian.ne
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> I maintain that, for practical purposes, the preceding quote from dasein
> is completely true and not at all loose or rhetorical excess. Let's
> replace "init system" with "wheel" and "systemd" with "a car":
Your vocabulary word for the day: 'Syn
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> What I don't like is tight coupling.
I'm with you on that. This is why I see the problem as being pretty
much the entire Freedesktop.org 'stack', e.g., upower, udisks2, D-Bus,
udev, and all the rest -- not just systemd. I see all of them as being
probl
Quoting Brian Nash (bcn...@gmail.com):
> Is this the way I am supposed to do it?
Your MUA (mail user agent = e-mail client), even if it's only GMail's
webmail interface, has _two_ distinct reply modes: reply-sender and
reply-all.
o Use reply-all for normal public replies on mailing lists.
o
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Once again, it is a matter of trust, not technical content. Do you
> trust the maintainers of libsystemd0 not to entangle it with unwanted
> systemd-isms? You evidently do. Rainer does not.
I'm certainly willing to consider the possibility tha
Quoting dev (devua...@gmail.com):
> On systems where security and stability are important, needless
> dependencies and pointless software expose a broader attack surface.
Generically, yes.
I definitely always appreciate having less unwanted code on my system,
particularly code that ever runs wit
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> And won't you then find that all those packages with gratuitous
> libsystemd0 dependencies will stop working ?
I have a better question: Is there something about empiricism that many
people on this mailing list cannot cope with?
Back when I had n
do, Ohio
Rick Moen Is like being nowhere at all.
r...@linuxmafia.com All through the day as the hours rush by
youtube.com/watch?v=XZUGSSYlPYI You sit in the park and you watch the grass die.
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Quoting Arnt Karlsen (a...@iaksess.no):
> ..re-running your tests now, do you still get the same results
> now, as back then when you first checked?
root@mini:/tmp# cd /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/
root@mini:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu# chmod 000 libsystemd.so.0.3.1
root@mini:/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu# rc-se
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the ClamAV
> packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on libsystemd0. Using
> dpkg --force-depends to install only that package without having
> libsystemd0 installed results in ...
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> OK, to start with, "sysadmin" is only a small part of ${dayjob} - so
> many things which full time admins may consider "simple" are not thing
> that I've ever had the time (and generally need) to deal with. I've
> never claimed to be a particularly
Quoting Rob Owens (robowen...@gmail.com):
> I would have to say no. I was on debian-user, and saw no poll. There was
> a lot of discussion, and the anti-systemd folks were largely ignored or
> told "go away, you're bothering us". I subscribed to debian-devel to
> monitor and discuss the situati
Quoting Rowland Penny (rpenny241...@gmail.com):
> It is a very stupid organisation that doesn't listen to its users,
> you can make the best thing in the world (and systemd certainly
> isn't that), but if a lot of your users don't want it, you are in
> trouble.
And this is because all 'organisati
Quoting Edward Bartolo (edb...@gmail.com):
> The above quote clearly contradicts the scope of Debian Social Contract.
> https://www.debian.org/social_contract
Ummm...
> Item no: 4 is in contradiction of what you are claiming.
>
> Quote from Debian Social Contract:
> <<
> Our priorities are our
Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):
> I'd propose giving them some gasoline to burn systemd-shim with. It's a
> tool to run *drumroll* systemd on a system not yet running it as pid 1.
*headdesk*
Um, no.
systemd-shim is/was a third-party Canonical, Ltd. (now apparently orphaned)
cod
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Though I suspect no one is going to give you the car you'd like, the
> devuan developers are solving _his_ problems for him. The fork is
> going to help some people. I suspect there are enough of these people
> to make the fork worthwhile. Of
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
> packages?
One of my worst and most annoying habits is to give reasoned and useful
answers to rhetorical questions. So:
You might decide to rebuild a local pac
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> > Who's the Tory of the Blind Man and the Elephant? Theresa May? ;->
Quoted to remind people that I never learned who this mysterious
Conservative Party MP is. Curious Minds Want to Know.[tm]
> Which brings us full circle. Simon doesn't want t
Quoting Simon Hobson (si...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do
> anything" then that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once
> anything calls one of it's functions, then that library can do lots of
> stuff.
On the other hand, when the perso
Quoting Marlon Nunes (nu...@openmailbox.org):
> https://www.ubuntubsd.org/wiki:why_not_systemd
>
> 12 points about why its bad.
I like this a lot because it's concise, very clear, and non-ranty.
Actually, I've been looking for a while for a single-stop place to refer
people to, and can't recal
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> True story. As one of ten founders of a LUG in 1999, and
> concerned about some future "evil group" "kidnapping" the LUG, I
> convinced everyone to put a very difficult quorum requirement into the
> constitution. Everyone was excited about the new
Quoting Edward Bartolo (edb...@gmail.com):
> Rich Meon wrote:
Seriously, now? Isn't this just a bit childish?
> For a "process-person" to claim publishing a manifesto (Debian Social
> Contract) and then, unexpectedly, stressing "They do what they think
> is best, and claim it best meets the ne
Quoting Go Linux (goli...@yahoo.com):
> Here's another one:
>
> http://judecnelson.blogspot.com/2014/09/systemd-biggest-fallacies.html
Yes, I know that one and think it's OK, but it's a great deal longer and
is metadiscussion. Not the same category of piece at all.
I appreciate the UbuntuBSD p
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
> >Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> >
> >>I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
> >>packag
Quoting Simon Walter (si...@gikaku.com):
> Rick, that's exactly what I was talking about. You might be well
> intentioned, but in so many words you are saying that you disagree
> with a fork of Debian.
Um, excuse me, but I didn't say that.
> If you really think Devuan is wrong, then flight it ha
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> In all fairness to Rick, he was making his statements on SVLUG, and
> then, on DNG, *I* referenced the SVLUG archive of the SVLUG discussion,
> and only then did he repeat his assertions here.
And my assertions stated that I like Devuan and apprec
Quoting Edward Bartolo (edb...@gmail.com):
> Nuances?! If it is a subtle difference, it can usually be ignored. Are
> you trying to impress me? If that is the case, I am well past the age
> of surprise.
You're right, my mistake. That wasn't a nuance. You actually missed
the _entirety_ of what I
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