Rick Moen wrote:
> I have a better question: Is there something about empiricism that many
> people on this mailing list cannot cope with?
>
> Back when I had newly joined this mailing list and all of these idle
> allegations and rhetorical questions started being posted, I decided to
> do that
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the ClamAV
> packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on libsystemd0. Using
> dpkg --force-depends to install only that package without having
> libsystemd0 installed results in ...
Rick Moen wrote:
> If the above test works, and I strongly suspect it would, then it's
> probably not hard to come up with smoother and more automatable ways.
> However, if I _did_ need package clamav (which I don't), _and_ if I were
> feeling paranoid about libsystemd0 (which I don't), then I'd
On 07/28/2016 05:50 PM, Simon Hobson wrote:
...
but personally I consider it unethical to leave booby traps in systems for
anyone that comes along to manage it after me.
...
> That, for the most part, is why I've gone to great lengths to only
use distro packaged software on the systems - even
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> OK, to start with, "sysadmin" is only a small part of ${dayjob} - so
> many things which full time admins may consider "simple" are not thing
> that I've ever had the time (and generally need) to deal with. I've
> never claimed to be a particularly
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote:
> What everyone else said and also the general netiquette of replying,
> quoting, and editing properly are much appreciated as you probably know.
To this let me add that some valuable members of our community have
low vision, plus Devuan Minimal Live has b
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 00:48:12 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
>
> > I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the
> > ClamAV packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on
> > libsystemd0. Using dpkg --force-depends to install only tha
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:03:59 +0200
Jaromil wrote:
> To this let me add that some valuable members of our community have
> low vision, plus Devuan Minimal Live has been optimised explicitly for
> the Linux-Speakup community. Therefore any attention to concise and
> meaningful quoting is appreciate
Steve Litt writes:
So let me ask you: What standards of quoting are compatible with
Linux-Speakup, and could you please elaborate on concise and
meaningful quoting as it relates to people reading my replies with
Linux-Speakup?
Can't say about that specific reader, but in general, stick to RFC 3
Steve Litt wrote:
> Which brings us full circle. Simon doesn't want to keep playing these
> games, wondering what kind of workaround he'll need next, as Lennart
> decides to subsume yet another Linux functionality, or Debian's "DDs"
> make yet another poor decision on dependencies. So he chose to
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 02:33:31AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
>
> But I'm getting the vibes that you are uninterested in 'overcoming
> dependency obstacles' through local system administration. You'd rather
> that someone else solves your problem.
>
> I understand. I'd like someone else to solve
On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:00 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
> On 07/26/2016 12:28 PM, Brad Campbell wrote:
>
>> On 26/07/16 10:27, Simon Walter wrote:
>>
>> Is that really the case? Did the Debian leadership do a poll to find out
>>> what their users wanted and who were their typical users?
>>> Desktop
On 28-07-16 11:33, Rick Moen wrote:
'Building custom packages' is a rather inventively melodramatic
exaggeration of auto-rebuilding a .deb with one spurious lib dependency
disabled, and the 'live grenade' imagery in that specific context is
patently ridiculous.
But hey, if you'd rather sit on y
Regarding https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=832508 on the
demise of systemd-shim. Posting here because it's unlikely many will see a
post to devuan-discuss (if it ever gets approved).
golinux
--
Message #10 received at 832...@bugs.debian
Quoting Rob Owens (robowen...@gmail.com):
> I would have to say no. I was on debian-user, and saw no poll. There was
> a lot of discussion, and the anti-systemd folks were largely ignored or
> told "go away, you're bothering us". I subscribed to debian-devel to
> monitor and discuss the situati
On 28/07/16 19:37, Rick Moen wrote:
It would be pretty much normal and expected for the Debian Project. It
has always made it pretty obvious that it's a community of developers
who run it to serve their own perceived needs. And that's pretty much
inevitable, given its parliamentary structure an
On 07/28/2016 05:42 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:03:59 +0200
Jaromil wrote:
>To this let me add that some valuable members of our community have
>low vision, plus Devuan Minimal Live has been optimised explicitly for
>the Linux-Speakup community. Therefore any attention to c
Hi,
Rick Moen wrote:
<<
It would be pretty much normal and expected for the Debian Project. It
has always made it pretty obvious that it's a community of developers
who run it to serve their own perceived needs. And that's pretty much
inevitable, given its parliamentary structure and governance
On 07/28/2016 10:05 PM, aitor_czr wrote:
On 07/28/2016 05:42 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:03:59 +0200
Jaromil wrote:
>To this let me add that some valuable members of our community have
>low vision, plus Devuan Minimal Live has been optimised explicitly for
>the Linux-Speaku
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 11:37:48 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
> Thus, I'm rather surprised that some members (and ejected ex-members,
> like Steve Litt) of debian-users seriously expected protracted
> lobbying by them as non-members of the project was any sort of
> pragmatic plan.
When I was excommunica
On 2016-07-28 10:16, Steve Litt wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 00:48:12 -0700
Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Simon Hobson (li...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> I too did some checking. From practical experience, one of the
> ClamAV packages (IIRC it's clamd) has a hard dependency on
> libsystemd0. Using dpkg --f
Quoting Rowland Penny (rpenny241...@gmail.com):
> It is a very stupid organisation that doesn't listen to its users,
> you can make the best thing in the world (and systemd certainly
> isn't that), but if a lot of your users don't want it, you are in
> trouble.
And this is because all 'organisati
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 05:12:13PM +, Go Linux wrote:
> Regarding https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=832508 on the
> demise of systemd-shim. Posting here because it's unlikely many will see a
> post to devuan-discuss (if it ever gets approved).
> Message #10 received at 832..
Quoting Edward Bartolo (edb...@gmail.com):
> The above quote clearly contradicts the scope of Debian Social Contract.
> https://www.debian.org/social_contract
Ummm...
> Item no: 4 is in contradiction of what you are claiming.
>
> Quote from Debian Social Contract:
> <<
> Our priorities are our
Quoting Adam Borowski (kilob...@angband.pl):
> I'd propose giving them some gasoline to burn systemd-shim with. It's a
> tool to run *drumroll* systemd on a system not yet running it as pid 1.
*headdesk*
Um, no.
systemd-shim is/was a third-party Canonical, Ltd. (now apparently orphaned)
cod
uht...@posteo.de wrote:
> Is pulseaudio necessary?
I don't have it installed here; so I suppose "no".
Admittedly, I could be wrong (or missing some context).
--
Registered Linux user #585947
Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
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Description: Digital signature
_
Some time ago Ozi Traveller helped me out for my logout problem sending
me 2 desktop environment independent logout tools (cb-exit and
oblogout, which essentially do the same, only oblogout is a bit more
eye candy). I had some problems with them but solved by changing the
localauthority settings of
I cannot see, if lxdm login manager is in the backports (?). As for me,
i had to get it from the ascii repositories.
With this login manager i solved the exit/logout problems i had with
slim *AND* lightdm (light is an euphemism!). And by the way i saw,lxdm
isn't somuch heavvier than slim. May be
When i removed slim i saw the package task-lxde-desktop was removed as
well. I checked a bit and i saw:
This package is used to install Devuan desktop, featuring the LXDE
desktop environment, and with other packages that Devuan users expect
to have available on the desktop
It depends on
On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 21:10:05 -1000
Joel Roth wrote:
> My system is devuan/jessie, upgraded from debian.
>
> It's interesting that 'man init' brings up the
> systemd man page.
>
On my systems, upgraded from Wheezy I get the INIT(8) manpage.
Regards Friedhelm
On 06/09/2016 04:52 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2016 16:50:16 +1200
> gordon cooper wrote:
>
>> On 09/06/16 02:59, Richard Heck wrote:
>>> Alternatively---here's a crazy idea---we could suspend the mailing
>>> list and send people to the forum
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>>
>> Perhaps
After looking before and following the instructions there, I've
upgraded Debian wheezy to Debian Jessie and apparently that isn't
how you do it now.
So what am I supposed to do now?
I'm looking for a set of migration steps that don't involve blowing
stuff away and loading an iso.
On a side questi
Hello list!
Is it possible/wished to have comunity driven repositories for devuan?
Background: trying to put together the stuff to make a viable JWM
desktop for devuan, i realize there are some key
applications/scripts/tools which are *NOT* in the devuan repositories
(not even in testing or unstab
I installed a basic devuan ascii to qemu and hopefully i went to /etc
to configure from the commandline a working wireless connection. But,
nada - there is no wpa_supplicant (which i expected to be there).
Now, may be/of course in devuan/debian there is another way to set up a
connection: Would so
On Mon, 11 Jul 2016 23:06:24 +0200
Jaromil wrote:
>
> Mostly for historical reasons, I'm posting here below the trace of a
> Kali Linux bug that has just been deleted from their tracker.
>
> Forensic distros are useful for many reasons. When minimal they can be
> also more reliable, I guess mos
Hi all!
I've a question about how to work with the list: Is there a way to
search an archive of lists and/or single messages for certain topics.
Background: Some time ago i asked about overheating and i got some very
helpful replies - but unfortunately i lost the file where i saved
them :-(
Than
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:25:39 +0200, Klaus wrote in message
> <33d1c1ed-16ae-e76a-9086-e770b0d99...@arcor.de>:
>
> >
> > Michael Prokop schrieb am 19.07.2016 um 23:22:
> > > * Klaus Fuerstberger [Mon Jul 18, 2016 at 09:41:01AM +0200]:
> > >
> > >> as I
@Jaromil, parazyd
From a previous question i posted about openrc, i got an answer by
jaromil, that there is underway an openrc package for ascii (which
would respect the gentoo style of implementation).
Now, my question: Is there a, may be even experimental package,
already? I'd be happy to use (
On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 14:09:14 +0200, Alexander wrote in message
> <20160720120914.gc25...@smithers.snow-crash.org>:
>
> > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2016 09:25:39 +0200, Klaus wrote in message
> > > <33d1c1ed-16ae
Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote:
> A library can do anything the executable can.
Which is what I thought.
So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do anything" then
that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once anything calls one of it's
functions, then that library can do lot
On 07/29/2016 06:43 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting Rowland Penny (rpenny241...@gmail.com):
It is a very stupid organisation that doesn't listen to its users,
you can make the best thing in the world (and systemd certainly
isn't that), but if a lot of your users don't want it, you are in
trouble.
Quoting Hendrik Boom (hend...@topoi.pooq.com):
> Though I suspect no one is going to give you the car you'd like, the
> devuan developers are solving _his_ problems for him. The fork is
> going to help some people. I suspect there are enough of these people
> to make the fork worthwhile. Of
On Sat, Jun 04, 2016 at 01:27:25PM +0200, Friedhelm Mehnert wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2016 21:10:05 -1000
> Joel Roth wrote:
>
> > My system is devuan/jessie, upgraded from debian.
was that from debian jessie?
> >
> > It's interesting that 'man init' brings up the
> > systemd man page.
> >
>
> On
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
> I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
> packages?
One of my worst and most annoying habits is to give reasoned and useful
answers to rhetorical questions. So:
You might decide to rebuild a local pac
On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 12:58:21PM +1000, terryc wrote:
> After looking before and following the instructions there, I've
> upgraded Debian wheezy to Debian Jessie and apparently that isn't
> how you do it now.
Since you are asking on this list, do you mean upgrading to *devuan*
jessie? That's
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com):
> > Who's the Tory of the Blind Man and the Elephant? Theresa May? ;->
Quoted to remind people that I never learned who this mysterious
Conservative Party MP is. Curious Minds Want to Know.[tm]
> Which brings us full circle. Simon doesn't want t
Quoting Simon Hobson (si...@thehobsons.co.uk):
> So when someone states that "it's just a library, it doesn't do
> anything" then that needs taking with a pinch of salt because once
> anything calls one of it's functions, then that library can do lots of
> stuff.
On the other hand, when the perso
On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 10:41:12PM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:
>
>
> On 07/28/2016 10:05 PM, aitor_czr wrote:
> >On 07/28/2016 05:42 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> >>On Thu, 28 Jul 2016 12:03:59 +0200
> >>Jaromil wrote:
> >>
> To this let me add that some valuable members of our community have
> lo
On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
Quoting info at smallinnovations.nl (i...@smallinnovations.nl):
I am a sysadmin myself and why in hell would i like to rebuild local
packages?
One of my worst and most annoying habits is to give reasoned and useful
answers to rhetorical questions.
Hardly, y
On 07/29/2016 12:57 AM, wrote:
I installed a basic devuan ascii to qemu and hopefully i went to /etc
to configure from the commandline a working wireless connection. But,
nada - there is no wpa_supplicant (which i expected to be there).
Now, may be/of course in devuan/debian there is another
On 07/29/2016 10:00 AM, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
If you can suggest an additional method, I'll be glad to amend my list
of suggestions. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is.
Your point is quite clear: you do not want a fork of debian and that
On 07/29/2016 03:00 AM, Joel Roth wrote:
As of Aug. 14, 2015:
...Speakup is now part of the Linux kernel's staging tree,
so you will find the source for its kernel modules in the
source tarballs and git repositories of the kernel itself.
http://linux-speakup.org/download.html
Oh, now i und
On 07/29/2016 03:51 AM, aitor_czr wrote:
On 07/29/2016 03:00 AM, Joel Roth wrote:
As of Aug. 14, 2015:
...Speakup is now part of the Linux kernel's staging tree,
so you will find the source for its kernel modules in the
source tarballs and git repositories of the kernel itself.
http://lin
On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 11:09:39AM +0200, uht...@posteo.de wrote:
> I installed a basic devuan ascii to qemu and hopefully i went to /etc
> to configure from the commandline a working wireless connection. But,
> nada - there is no wpa_supplicant (which i expected to be there).
I have wpasupplicant
Hi uhtlmk
There is already a group working on this.
https://talk.devuan.org/t/attempt-to-make-a-jwm-based-desktop-for-devuan/
Cheers
Ozi
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 12:31 AM, wrote:
> Hello list!
>
> Is it possible/wished to have comunity driven repositories for devuan?
> Background: trying to pu
Hi uhtlmk
Thanks I have a look at it!
The link didn't work for me. I check it on my manjaro install.
Cheers
Ozi
On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 12:06 AM, wrote:
> Some time ago Ozi Traveller helped me out for my logout problem sending
> me 2 desktop environment independent logout tools (cb-exit and
>
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:49:32 +0900
Simon Walter wrote:
> On 07/29/2016 10:00 AM, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
> > On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
> >> If you can suggest an additional method, I'll be glad to amend my
> >> list of suggestions. Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point i
On 07/29/2016 01:28 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 10:49:32 +0900
Simon Walter wrote:
On 07/29/2016 10:00 AM, info at smallinnovations.nl wrote:
On 29-07-16 01:43, Rick Moen wrote:
If you can suggest an additional method, I'll be glad to amend my
list of suggestions. Otherwise, I
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