Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Arnt Gulbrandsen
You sound more and more like a troll. John Hughes writes: Having a few files and directories on your disk is a major problem? systemd is not running if you're using systemd-shim, it just needs the systemd directories This is a classic fallacy. But each new file in /etc is one more file to lo

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Simon Hobson
John Hughes wrote: > Yes, the impression I get around here is that this is a religious argument > for most of you. > > I had hopes for Devuan, but the lack of rational thinking convinces me that > it's going nowhere. There's no lack of rational thinking. People here don't want to run SystemD,

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Adam Borowski
On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 02:40:08PM +0100, John Hughes wrote: > >>No, you don't. You do have to have systemd installed, [ see below for > >>why ], but systemd does not have to be pid 1. > > > >OK, systemd doesn't have to be pid1, but by your admission, you still have > >to have it installed *even*

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Rainer Weikusat
John Hughes writes: > On 20/12/15 19:01, Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> John Hughes writes: >>> On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: Gnome If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l >>> We're going round in circles. *I* posted that command: >>> >>> https://lists.dyne.org/

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread KatolaZ
On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 03:07:14PM +0100, John Hughes wrote: [cut] > > I had hopes for Devuan, but the lack of rational thinking convinces > me that it's going nowhere. > > Bye. > OK, bye now. And please everybody, just stop to answer to those emails. -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread John Hughes
On 21/12/15 14:51, Rowland Penny wrote: Exactly you moron. Our friendly community. Now I have said this before but you seem to be hard of hearing, so *GO AWAY, YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CONVERTED HERE!* Yes, the impression I get around here is that this is a religious argument for most

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Rowland Penny
On 21/12/15 13:40, John Hughes wrote: On 21/12/15 12:41, Rowland Penny wrote: On 21/12/15 11:06, John Hughes wrote: On 21/12/15 11:52, Rowland Penny wrote: On 21/12/15 10:03, John Hughes wrote: What I'm looking for is choice -- I want people who want systemd to be able to run it, and peopl

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread John Hughes
On 21/12/15 12:41, Rowland Penny wrote: On 21/12/15 11:06, John Hughes wrote: On 21/12/15 11:52, Rowland Penny wrote: On 21/12/15 10:03, John Hughes wrote: What I'm looking for is choice -- I want people who want systemd to be able to run it, and people who dont want it to be able to use s

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Rowland Penny
On 21/12/15 11:06, John Hughes wrote: On 21/12/15 11:52, Rowland Penny wrote: On 21/12/15 10:03, John Hughes wrote: What I'm looking for is choice -- I want people who want systemd to be able to run it, and people who dont want it to be able to use sysvinit, openrc or upstart or whatever.

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
Am Montag, 21. Dezember 2015 schrieb John Hughes: > On 21/12/15 11:52, Rowland Penny wrote: > > On 21/12/15 10:03, John Hughes wrote: > >> > >> > >> What I'm looking for is choice -- I want people who want systemd to > >> be able to run it, and people who dont want it to be able to use > >> sysvi

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Didier Kryn
Le 21/12/2015 11:03, John Hughes a écrit : What I'm looking for is choice -- I want people who want systemd to be able to run it, and people who dont want it to be able to use sysvinit, openrc or upstart or whatever. Please stop this. This question has been answered a million times alread

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Dragan FOSS
On 12/21/2015 11:03 AM, John Hughes wrote: At the moment things are all fucked up because there is no long term alternative to the seat management part of systemd and few people seem prepared to work on it. Utterly false claim...systemd is responsible for broken things. --- 1) TRIOS [d

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread John Hughes
On 21/12/15 11:52, Rowland Penny wrote: On 21/12/15 10:03, John Hughes wrote: What I'm looking for is choice -- I want people who want systemd to be able to run it, and people who dont want it to be able to use sysvinit, openrc or upstart or whatever. At the moment things are all fucked up

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread Rowland Penny
On 21/12/15 10:03, John Hughes wrote: On 20/12/15 19:01, Rainer Weikusat wrote: John Hughes writes: On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: Gnome If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l We're going round in circles. *I* posted that command: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/mess

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-21 Thread John Hughes
On 20/12/15 19:01, Rainer Weikusat wrote: John Hughes writes: On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: Gnome If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l We're going round in circles. *I* posted that command: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151218.143549.77d859b4.en.html B

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-20 Thread Rainer Weikusat
John Hughes writes: > On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: >> Gnome >> >> If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l > > We're going round in circles. *I* posted that command: > > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151218.143549.77d859b4.en.html > > But you still haven't said *

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread Svante Signell
On Sat, 2015-12-19 at 12:02 +0100, John Hughes wrote: > On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: > > Gnome > > > > If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l > We're going round in circles.  *I* posted that command: > > https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151218.143549.77d859b4.en

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread dev1fanboy
It still answers your question, and you haven't responded to what I said about gnome. In the previous response you didn't reply to what I said about Devuan not being *just* about systemd either. I think you misunderstand me, I don't want to remove any part of systemd. Can you show what I sai

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread Rowland Penny
On 19/12/15 11:02, John Hughes wrote: On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: Gnome If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l We're going round in circles. *I* posted that command: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151218.143549.77d859b4.en.html But you still haven't said

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread John Hughes
On 19/12/15 11:58, dev1fanboy wrote: Gnome If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l We're going round in circles. *I* posted that command: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20151218.143549.77d859b4.en.html But you still haven't said *why* you want to remove libsystemd0.

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread dev1fanboy
Gnome If you need more: apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 | wc -l   On Saturday, December 19, 2015 10:45 AM, John Hughes wrote:   On 19/12/15 11:40, dev1fanboy wrote: You have to avoid many other packages to avoid systemd and in some cases you will end up with systemd support that you don't

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread John Hughes
On 19/12/15 11:40, dev1fanboy wrote: You have to avoid many other packages to avoid systemd and in some cases you will end up with systemd support that you don't want anyway. For example? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglist

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread dev1fanboy
Reading from devuan.org Devuan intends in the long term to try to follow the UNIX philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, so it's not just about systemd. You have to avoid many other packages to avoid systemd and in some cases you will end up with systemd support that you don't want a

Re: [DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-19 Thread John Hughes
On 18/12/15 19:02, Steve Litt wrote: Yeah, in an ideal world, we'd like to remove every rotting vestige of systemd, but in a practical world, where if we don't timely produce something people can actually use, this has all been for naught, removal is a process, where on the first go-around we rem

[DNG] Devuan's goal: was Our friendly community

2015-12-18 Thread Steve Litt
On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 18:51:02 +0300 Mitt Green wrote: > >is nothing but "systemd support code added to some > >package". > > If it is so, why there is so much hype about it?  > I previously thought that Devuan aim was to remove > *any* of systemd components. I think this is settled law, settl