Gary said:
> To open to read binary:
> tty = open("/dev/ttyACM0", "rb")
> The line will be binary. Getting just the NMEA out will be fun.
Thanks. That's what I needed.
There is no problem getting just the NMEA. I'm using isASCII to detect the
garbage cases.
I get things like:
### Not
Gary said:
> Weird... Since ttyACM0 is USB, maybe a driver thing.
Yes, I'm using the USB port rather than the serial port.
The question is: Which driver? Linux or U-Blox?
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Is anybdy familiar with this area?
Is this something I did? Or are others seeing the same problem?
(I might have turned on some more-warnings flag, but I don't think so.)
../../tests/unity/unity.c:984:5: warning: enumeration value
\u2018UNITY_FLOAT_INVALID_TRAIT\u2019 not handled in switch [-W
> That usually means there is no "default:" case in a switch.
OK, but where did the unity code come from and/or have we cloned it or are we
tracking what they do? Or ...
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git log on a fresh clone shows things like this:
Author: Hal Murray
Date: Tue Jul 4 15:16:47 2023 -0700
Squash warnings about not handled enumeration
I haven't used that email in ages. My profile has been updated. Mail from
gitlab goes to the right place.
Where is the other address
Thanks Gary and Fred.
I found it in ~/.gitconfig
It would have taken me a long long long time to look there.
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Should that also go to users@ and devel@?
What fraction of people on users or devel are also on announce?
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ntpd/ntp_parser.y has this line:
%token T_Timingstats
T_Timingstats is never defined. All the other similar tokens are defined in
ntpd/keyword-gen.c
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James Browning said:
> If the project is sleeping, then you may as
>well cut the new release now.
I think we should do a normal release. That includes scanning the issues and
merge requests. And lots of testing.
I'm working on making a couple of new stats files for NTP packets using NTS
Windows feature that resets system clocks based on random data is wreaking
havoc
https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/08/windows-feature-that-resets-system-c
locks-based-on-random-data-is-wreaking-havoc/
Windows Secure Time Seeding resets clocks months or years off the correct time.
That's
I just pushed the first cut.
No documentation yet.
Like sysstats and usestats, ntsstats and ntskestats get logged every hour.
If you look at the output from ntpq -c nts, the counters fall into two clumps,
one for NTS and one for NTS-KE. All the counters get logged in the same order.
Should
James Browning said:
> The NTP solution would be to convert the mess to l_fp which
> will work for a bit less than 13 years.
Thanks. l_fp is the right answer.
How did you get 13 years? I get 136. Did you drop/typo the 6?
> My joke would be to have it as a long long of micro-seconds which w
>Expires February 2036 minus the current date
>is about 12 years and 5 months maybe ish...
The context is a duration of time rather than time of day. eg the result of
sub_tspec() How many seconds did it take to do X? The current date has
nothing to do with it.
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Really really dead? Or maybe just hiding in some dark corner?
Should we drop support for python2 as part of the next release?
Or announce in the next release that we will drop it as part of the following
release?
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> Rumours of its death are greatly exagerated.
Thanks.
Let me try again with maybe closer to what I should have asked?
Are there any distros that we currently run on that don't support python 3?
I can imagine some places are running really really old software.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Gary said:
> Let's try again in a year.
Sounds good to me.
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Thanks.
Maybe it's time to switch to Go?
How long would it take us to rewrite, from scratch, everything in ntpclients?
I occasionally poke around in ntpq. I find it very hard to work with. I
think the others are much simpler.
Is the basic structure right? If we were starting from scratch, w
Gary said:
> Please, no. Go is a garbage collected language. Just what NTPsec does not
> need, random, unpredictable delays.
I was thinking of the Python code in ntpclients/ and pylib/
Is there anything in there that is time sensitive?
There are lots of ways to inject timing bumps before we
Gary said:
>James Browning via devel wrote:
>> It would appear there is a way to turn off GC under runtime/,
> How? Link?
https://pkg.go.dev/runtime/debug#SetGCPercent
It's not clear to me how to take advantage of that. You still have to turn it
on occasionally or your world will fill up w
Gary said:
> Avoiding creating garbage is hard.
In general, yes. But the inner loop of the server side is not very
complicated.
The APIs that I'm looking at are read-into-my-buffer rather than return a new
buffer that needs to be GCed.
I think it's worth some effort to investigate this area
"Windows feature that resets system clocks based on random data is wreaking
havoc."
https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/08/windows-feature-that-resets-system-clo
cks-based-on-random-data-is-wreaking-havoc/
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-4 and -6 work on the server line in ntp.conf but are not documented
-4/ipv4 and -6/ipv6 "work" on the command line, but they don't do what the
documentation says. The man page says:
Force DNS resolution of following host names on the command line to
the IPv4 namespace.
W
Does anybody have a recipe (or pointer to one) for how to get a system running
without any IPv6?
I want something such that isc_net_probeipv6_bool() will return false.
Do we have to build our own kernel with some config variable turned off?
Or will just not configuring any IPv6 interfaces be g
There was a request for ntpviz to show NTS traffic. We now have the log files
to make that possible.
Any documentation wizards?
Please look at the indentation around the info for the *stats options in both
the man page for ntp.conf and the html pages for ntp_conf and monopt.
The web pages h
>I am willing to break out some instant expert credentials on this until
>someone better shows up.
Thanks.
>I will take a look at it. Would you like a single or double-line 'box'
I have a slight preference for double, but it doesn't really matter.
I've seen some example with dou
> After glancing at the tops and bottoms fo some of the HTML docs, I think I
> have some issues to correct.
I think the last line of the man pages used to have the version number. I'm
not seeing that now.
Is that because I'm doing something special to get the date in the version
string ( --b
Does anybody have details on how MSSNTP signing works?
If we can find that, we can write some POSIX code to test things.
There is a link in ntpd/ntp_signd.c
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc212930.aspx
But I didn't find anything interesting there. (Maybe my browser was filtering
so
Google found this:
[MS-SNTP]: Network Time Protocol (NTP) Authentication Extensions
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecs/windows_protocols/ms-sntp/8106cb73-
ab3a-4542-8bc8-784dd32031cc
Which links to:
[MS-SNTP]:
Network Time Protocol (NTP) Authentication Extensions
https://winprotocoldo
James said:
> MR 1333 should address the issue where every response in an mssntp-restricted
> subnet gets lost in ntp_signd.
Is there any reason to approve it now when we don't know if it works yet?
Are all the changes inside an #ifdef? (and thus unlikely to break normal
operations)
> MR 13
I'm working on MS-SNTP. I have some hack programs that should help exercise
all the code. [We should have done this ages ago.]
I put James's patches into my server and tweaked the config.
I put the samba socket in /tmp/
ntpd couldn't see it. My test programs work fine.
18 Oct 20:52:00 ntpd
matthew.sel...@twosigma.com said:
> Are you using selinux or something that would prevent access to /tmp?
I have selinux=0 and audit=0 on the kernel command line.
What sort of rule would keep ntpd from seeing /tmp/ and where would that sort
of rule live?
Is this something from systemd?
--
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> Can you provide:
> ~ $ ls -ld /tmp drwxrwxrwt 12 root root 580 Oct 19 11:00 /tmp
srwxrwxrwx 1 murray murray 0 Oct 18 20:51 /tmp/fake-samba-socket/socket
drwxrwxrwx 2 ntpntp 60 Oct 18 20:51 /tmp/fake-samba-socket/
drwxrwxrwt 19 root root 500 Oct 19 13:19 /
Gary said:
> Notice the "nodev"?
> From "man chmod":
>nodev
>Do not interpret character or block special devices on the
>filesystem.
It works fine from my test program. What's different about ntpd?
Is a UNIX socket (fifo?) a special device?
When I see "device",
matthew.sel...@twosigma.com said:
> Are you running ntpd with --jaildir (or -i) or some chroot-like
> functionality?
Not that I know of.
Oct 18 23:17:42 hgm ntpd[16099]: INIT: Command line: /usr/local/sbin/ntpd -g
-N -u ntp:ntp
But systemd might be doing something like that without telling m
Found it. systemd sets up separate /tmp for some services.
Features/ServicesPrivateTmp
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ServicesPrivateTmp
Run some services started by systemd with a private /tmp directory. This would
mitigate the chance of a service making a mistake with how it hand
The last time this was suggested, I encouraged waiting until we fixed mssntp.
Well, I think we have it fixed but we haven't found anybody to test it.
So I think it's time to get ready for a release.
Time for lots of testing. And documentation checking/cleanup.
Does anybody have any features
> What sort of testing did you have in mind?
Nothing in particular. We haven't had a release in a while so I hope
everybody will run git head and keep an eye out for glitches, make sure their
favorite toys work as expected, double check log files, etc...
> Any specific doc cleanup?
Our doc al
Is updating PIVOT.h on your checklist and/or should I update it now while I/we
think of it?
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Merge requests seem reasonable if all goes well. My work flow is roughly:
download the patch (URL plus ".patch")
scan it
maybe apply and test
approve and merge
But things go downhill if I don't like something. What I get from James is an
update to the MR, a patch to the patch. That
I'm looking into making our documentation consistent.
NIST and Wikipedia use SHA-1.
Ages ago. ntpkeygen used SHA1.
OpenSSL seems to prefer SHA1, but it has an alias for SHA-1.
To list the digests:
openssl dgst -list
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Fred Wright said:
> In general, it's a good idea to read an actual book on git, rather than
> trying to understand it purely through manpages. The one I used (almost a
> decade ago) is this one:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1449316387/
Thanks. I like books.
There is a 3rd editi
We have a mix of man pages and web pages.
I think all the man pages have a web version generated from the same source.
There are some/many web pages without the corresponding man page.
Debian includes the web pages in ntpsec-doc
Fedora doesn't have a separate doc package for ntpsec.
Their nt
> Does the comment on line 880 also need to be updated?
Good catch. Thanks.
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I think you should release what we have as soon as it is convenient.
There are many more things I would like to include but we aren't making much
progress so it's time to do it.
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I'm working on devel-TODO-NTS. (mostly deleting things)
Currently, if a bad guy hacks or arm-twists a certificate authority, they can
sign a certificate that the bad guy can use for a MITM attack.
We can make that a lot harder if we lookup the current root certificate that a
server is currentl
Gary said:
> Uh, not quite. Check the Coverity stuff.
How do I do that?
I'd expect something to send me email but I don't remember anything about
Coverity.
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Gary said:
> DO you have an account on: https://scan.coverity.com/
> If so, I think I can add you to the project.
Thanks. I think i worked.
How does their stuff work? How often do they check NTPsec?
Or what should I be asking?
How much mail should I expect? ...
There are 3 Coverity quirk
What does the $$ after the +aga+ do?
|+year+|One generation file element is generated per year.
The filename suffix consists of a dot and a 4 digit year number.
|+age+$$ |This type of file generation sets changes to a new element
of
the file set every 24 hou
ntp_parser.y contqains:
%token T_Tinker
%token T_Tlsciphers
%token T_Tlsciphersuites
I'd expect those tokens to come from the keywords header file.
But tlsciphers isn't in the keyword list.
tlscipehrswuites is in the list.
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James said:
>The host phase of Waf build generates tablegen which in turn generates
>keywords.h IIRC. I have no idea how the internals work.
I took a look at the code.
It looks like there are 2 tables of keywords, one in ntp_keyword.h (build by
keyword-gen) and another in ntp_parser.y.
> I'll aim to release ~15-Dec-2023
Sounds good. Thanks.
> I'm thinking about AES becoming the new default for ntpq, etc.
I got a few a day or so ago. I missed that one. I'll get it tonight.
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I expect the comment on the previous line to tell Coverity to not complain
about this case.
Is there a typo or such that I'm missing?
149/* coverity[checked_return] */
CID 462307 (#1 of 1): Unchecked return value (CHECKED_RETURN)
15. check_return: Calling CMAC_Update without checki
Does that mean no warnings?
If not, how are we expected to learn about code that generates warnings on
obscure systems?
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James said:
> Maybe we should add -Werror or such to CFLAGS.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
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Thanks.
> If that's a thing you want to do on your system, you can. IMHO, it's not
> something that we particularly need to promote, nor would I find it
> desirable operationally. If my NTP server changes their CA provider, then I
> won't be able to talk to them any more until I take manual actio
Fred Wright said:
> The main issue I've found is that the "struct var" in ntp_control.c, is
> relying on anonymous unions, which are a relatively new language feature.
That is my attempt at getting a sane procedure for adding slots to the table.
The old scheme required coordinated edits in sev
Fred Wright said:
> I also stumbled across something (which may not be new) where it appears
> that if libaes_siv is installed as a system library, it's preferred over the
> bundled version. That probably doesn't change the actual behavior, but may
> lead to opportunistic builds.
That seems wort
Anybody recognize this? I've seen a missing file once before. I think it was
clockwork.??
It works if I try it again.
Waf: Entering directory `/home/murray/ntpsec/raw/test-all/main'
--- PYTHONPATH is not set, loading the Python ntp library may be troublesome
---
[ 1/137] Compiling libntp/clo
James said:
> It sounds like a race condition in our wscript files or waf. How willing are
> you to sink time into this, I think it's a losing proposition.
I've got a --jobs=1 in my script. That was added to make sure the printout
was easy to read when there were compiler errors.
I'm willing
Let's put that stuff on the back burner until the release is out.
> Ntpsec doesn't fully support OpenBSD anyway, due to the lack of "timex"
> (though my Mac patches fix that), and the fact that OpenBSD provides
> LibreSSL rather than OpenSSL, but the 1.2.2a "Mac" version did build with
> --disabl
>> Please say more about your Mac patches?
> The patches come in two categories:
> Fallback for missing clock_gettime() and clock_settime().
My copy of OpenBSD 7.4 has clock_gettime() and clock_settime().
So we can take the first step without changing that area.
The timex stuff will be a bit m
Thanks.
and thanks to all who contributed and tested.
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Fred Wright said:
[context is my reply to the released message.]
> For some reason the antecedent to this message wasn't sent to the list,
> though I'd noticed the release by checking the repo.
My copy was sent to:
Subject: NTPsec 1.2.3 released
From: Matthew Selsky via announce
Date: Su
I have no strong opinions on this area.
I won't grumble if our doc stuff doesn't build on Python2 as long as we have a
copy of the doc on the web. Or somebody who really wants their own can build
it on a more modern system and copy the files over.
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On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 08:35:14PM -0500, vinton cerf via Internet-history
wrote:
> His daughter, Leigh, just sent me the news that Dave passed away peacefully
> on January 17, 2024. He was such an iconic element of the early Internet.
> Network Time Protocol, the Fuzzball routers of the early NSF
Future of 32-bit platform support in FreeBSD
FreeBSD is deprecating 32-bit platforms over the next couple of major
releases. We anticipate FreeBSD 15.0 will not include the armv6,
i386, and powerpc platforms, and FreeBSD 16.0 will not include armv7.
Support for executing 32-bit binaries on 64-bit
Is anybody thinking about what we should be doing?
Here is my list:
Port to Windows
Does anybody know anything about Windows?
Is there a decent POSIX environment?
How well does waf work on Windows?
We can get the magic code from ntp-classic.
I think we should split ntpd into sever
Here are the cnhnks I have in mind:
NTP server
NTS-KE server
NTP/NTS client
refclocks
monitoring/ntpq
I have debugged the lockclock mode so we now have a stand-alone NTP server.
It gets the error data from the krenel. (Or can/should. I haven't checked
that code.) As just a ser
(I found some more notes...)
We should test the config file stuff to see that all the options at least get
past the parser. Better would be to actually run the code.
We should check FIPS mode. Do any of the CI options include FIPS?
I got half way there by building OpenSSL to include FIPS mode
James Browning said:
>> I think we should split ntpd into several independant programs.
>> More in another message.
> I gave up on that notion; I lacked the patience to do it.
I think we can take small steps. Or at least some of them.
> Yeah, the IETF NTP WG shot down the notion of NTP alter
If somebody feels like hacking, something like this should be fun.
The idea is to setup a ntpd server watching the servers you want to monitor.
(noselect on the server line does that)
The new code is a program that watches that server to see if the servers to be
monitored are responding corr
I just pushed some code. The CI stuff sent me a Failed pipeline message.
[0K[31;1mERROR: Job failed: failed to pull image "registry.gitlab.com/gitlab-or
g/gitlab-runner/gitlab-runner-helper:x86_64-v16.11.0" with specified policies
[always]: Error response from daemon: manifest for
registry.git
I just pushed code that optionally listens on a second port.
The NTS-KE server will tell the client to use that port.
Requests going out will be from the new port.
The idea is to bypass ISP filtering on port 123.
Testing encouraged. I've been testing with
nts port 8123
Be sure to let traff
If you use the extra port stuff I pushed last night, port 123 stops working.
Ugh, blush. I usually do better than that.
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James Browning said:
> If you were thinking of adding way too many servers you might want to replace
> the bubble sort around lines 1709-1728 of ntp_proto.c
That code is only sorting the servers that get used. Anything with noselect
got tossed back at line 1619.
if (peer_unfit(p
There is an option in the config file and more on the command line.
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Does anybody test our code on Apple? Solaris?
Does anybody use any of the fancy interface logic?
It's available both vie the command line and the config file.
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I've pushed the code for alternatives to port 123. It's working for me, but
could use more testing. You might hit a case I didn't consider.
There are 2 new options for the config file:
nts port
extra port
They do the same thing. Pick one.
There are two parts.
If a server uses
Richard Laager said:
> Why two options that do the same thing?
Thanks for asking. I meant to say something about that.
I think the reason there are two is that I had a typo or such and couldn't get
>extra port < to work. After banging my head against the wall for a
while, I gave up and a
While I was working on the extra+port stuff
I had the following code
bool new_interface;
...
new_interface = update_interfaces_phase1(NTP_PORT);
if (extra_port)
new_interface |= update_interfaces_phase1(extra_port);
Note that there is no initialization on new_interface.
I wanted to rev
We have code like this in several places:
#ifndef EVP_MD_CTX_new
#define EVP_MD_CTX_new() EVP_MD_CTX_create()
#endif
The man page for EVP_MD_CTX_new() says:
The EVP_MD_CTX_create() and EVP_MD_CTX_destroy() functions were
renamed
to EVP_MD_CTX_new() and EVP_MD_CTX_free(
matthew.sel...@twosigma.com said:
> What's the cost of keeping 1.1.0 as the minimum version that we support?
Not much if any. NTS won't work.
> What's the cost of keeping 1.1.1 as the minimum version that we support?
22 ifdefs. They are all in the crypto code. None in NTS.
libaes_siv ha
Does anybody other than me run/test on NetBSD?
The test-all part of option-tester gets the following error.
ntp_stdlib includes signal.h
Do we have to do some magic to make that get siginfo_t?
[ 43/136] Compiling libparse/clk_sel240x.c
In file included from ../../include/nt
James said:
> After checking some webpages, I have a notion that NetBSD has siginfo,
> rather than siginfo_t. If they are the same struct, then a relatively
> simple #define or typedef should amend the Issue. I have not tested it
> yet.
The NetBSD man page says:
The sigaction() function confo
Fred Wright said:
>> The test-all part of option-tester gets the following error.
> Why only in option-tester?
That was just a simple way to tickle the problem. (Which was why I put it
together in the first place.)
The code that causes the problem is libparse/clk_sel240x.c
Near the top, it
Coverity got a little smarter and now reports a couple of cases of
INTEGER_OVERFLOW in code that hasn't changed in a long time.
One of them is in the clock fuzzing code. I propose to eliminate that
feature.
Any objections?
Long story:
That code dates back to the days when clocks were update
matthew.sel...@twosigma.com said:
> Sounds good. Will you rip the entire thing out in 1-shot, or in chunks?
> Will you remove the "waf configure --disable-fuzz" option entirely or
> leave some sort of backwards-compatible option?
I was going to do it in 1-shot. There aren't any obvious half-w
$ grep rtems wscript */wscript wafhelpers/*
wscript:if ctx.options.enable_rtems_trace:
wscript:ctx.find_program("rtems-tld", var="BIN_RTEMS_TLD",
wscript: path_list=[ctx.options.rtems_trace_path,
wscript:# Borrowed from https://www.rtems.org/
wscript:ctx.load
Fred Wright said:
> Add support for RTEMS trace.
> This doesn't work yet. Chris will help me iron out the issues.
Thanks. It's gone.
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I'm trying to setup a Pi with a GPS hat.
The Microserver HOWTO says:
{--config} Edit /boot/config.txt and add these lines to the end of the
file, replacing 4 with the logical pin number for your HAT if it's not an
Adafruit:
# Get 1PPS from HAT pin
dtoverlay=pps-gpio,gpiopin=4
The first
James Browning said:
> You should be able to run the following to get the list of variables
> (but no type info).
> $ ntpq -c "rv 0 sys_vars_list"
> which seem to not work for a while,
I can't find any reference to sys_vars_list.
I've looked in the current code and in git log -p
Is that the
[From https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec/-/merge_requests/1399]
Gary said:
> But I agree with you that howto run non-root needs to be documented, and
> I would also like tests in ntpd to verify the needed CAPS to run as
> designed.
I expect it will crash if it doesn't have the appropriate caps. M
> I assume it's from this change: https://gitlab.com/NTPsec/ntpsec/-/commit/
> 7c8b5fe20eafe911be4eac64467a032a52753313#887b5ad6972aa02f9a0434c248cd872a9
> 94e6fc5_44_41
Thanks. Yes. That would explain this problem.
But that cleanup went in back in June. Why didn't we notice this problem
ear
Thanks
James said:
>It is one of many jobs set up to fail withou fanfare. Nobody was
>checking up on them on the pipelines tab at GitLab.
Why do we have those jobs?
>> Do we have a web page that describes our support policy?
>Besides https://www.ntpsec.org/supported-platforms.ht
> some twenty one of them build docker images weekly,
Does anybody test them?
Who gets the output of weekly builds?
> Which of these jobs should become noisy and which ones should go away?
If we are going to run a job, somebody should check the results. So I
vote that all are noisy. If we
Gary said:
>> >It is one of many jobs set up to fail withou fanfare. Nobody was
>> >checking up on them on the pipelines tab at GitLab.
>> Why do we have those jobs?
> To test commits that they don't break the build.
Right. But if they fail silently nobody notices that something is bro
I'm trying to cleanup the tangle in ntp_control.c that generates warnings.
They may be actual bugs. The problem is that the man page says long while
the actual size may be 32 or 64 on 32 bit Linux systems.
If I knew the size, the fix would be simple. wscript has code to get the
size of a type
Fred Wright said:
> You can just use sizeof(). The only caveat is that there's no way
> (AFAIK) to apply it to an element of an abstract type, so you need a
> concrete instance to apply it to. But the concrete instance can even be
> just a pointer, as long as it's a pointer to a complete str
e...@thyrsus.com said:
> We can't fix *that*, either. All we can do is add a warning to the man
> pages for NMEA-related drivers that if your GPS is older than 1024 weeks you
> may be cruising for a bruising. I think I'll go do that.
We need to find out when they added the 3 extra bits.
--
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> I think we can drop the Jupiter driver. I looked for rollover compensation
> and didn't find it. Instead there's this at line 1019:
You could use it as an example of how to do it right.
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
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