Yo Hal!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 23:54:21 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> devel@ntpsec.org said:
> > Rather than repeating myself:
> > https://lists.ntpsec.org/pipermail/devel/2017-April/004179.html
>
> Thanks. Here is the key part:
> > step - double seconds, range usually +/1 1ms, 1us or 1ns.
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> Rather than repeating myself:
> https://lists.ntpsec.org/pipermail/devel/2017-April/004179.html
Thanks. Here is the key part:
> step - double seconds, range usually +/1 1ms, 1us or 1ns.
>never larger than 'gate', but for arguement assume
>
fallenpega...@gmail.com said:
> How hard is it to write a fake NMEA device simulator in Python, and use
> Linux IPC control magic to have it appear at a fake serial device?
I don't know anything about IPC, but I do know how to connect 2 PCs with a
crossover cable.
USB would be good enough so y
I have a device that will rollover after week 1998 (in 2018) that I
just tested with a GPS simulator set to 2 years in the future,
attached to ntpd classic with a +2 year offset in get_ostime (and
"disable ntp" in conf) and ntpcal_get_build_date() of 2016. The
512-week-around-receive-timestamp cod
Hal Murray :
>
> >> You could use it as an example of how to do it right.
> > Er, *what*?
>
> Fix the code. Do it right and cleanly. Add a comment pointing to the page
> with a full description of the whole mess. Have that page point back there
> as an example of how to fix the GPS week rol
Mark Atwood via devel :
> I find it unlikely we're going to find a real Jupiter to test against, if
> nobody has raised this issue against NTP Classic.
I do, too. Seventeen years!
*plonk*
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Please consider contributing to my Patreon p
Gary E. Miller via devel :
> No. GPS uses 10 bit weeks on the L1 C/A channel, which is what
> most consumer GPS use. The other systems use 13 bit weeks.
Ah, that is the crucial bit on information I lacked. Thanks.
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/";>Eric S. Raymond
Please consider c
I created a loop like that for the Trimble driver. The algorithm is
pretty simple so I'm probably missing something; please check out the
merge request I made a few days ago. I still need to test the changes
with my simulator and with ntpd started with date offsets.
>Hal Murray hmurray at megapa
Yo Mark!
On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 01:09:14 +
Mark Atwood via devel wrote:
> How hard is it to write a fake NMEA device simulator in Python, and
> use Linux IPC control magic to have it appear at a fake serial device?
Not how hard, but who wants that at the top of their list. I think you
have so
How hard is it to write a fake NMEA device simulator in Python, and use
Linux IPC control magic to have it appear at a fake serial device?
..m
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 4:46 PM Hal Murray wrote:
>
> I'd like to get one for testing.
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions. I hate spam.
>
>
>
> _
Yo Hal!
On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 23:45:20 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> Or use tcpdump and avoid another layer of possible confusion.
I also looked at it with tcpdump, since it showed nothing unexpected
I skipped mentioning it.
RGDS
GARY
-
On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:16 PM Hal Murray wrote:
>
> Does anybody have any great ideas for how to take advantage of this extra
> info?
>
I've been thinking that over for the past week, and I don't have a great
idea on how to take advantage of that.
..m
--
Mark Atwood
http://about.me/markatwo
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 00:24:49 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> > Do you have --enable-warnings on? Known upstream Bison bug.
>
> I don't think so. I do have --enable-debug and --enable-debug-gdb
> The yydebug error is conditional on DEBUG, but I've been using that
> for ages without proble
I find it unlikely we're going to find a real Jupiter to test against, if
nobody has raised this issue against NTP Classic.
..m
On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 5:22 PM Gary E. Miller via devel
wrote:
> Yo Hal!
>
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:16:58 -0700
> Hal Murray via devel wrote:
>
> > >> You could use
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:22:28 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> devel@ntpsec.org said:
> > Prove it. I have already sent you a detailed analysis, you keep
> > saying no, but refuse to defend your point.
>
> > I can accept an "I don't know yet", but if you keep saying it is
> > wrong I expect
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:16:58 -0700
Hal Murray via devel wrote:
> >> You could use it as an example of how to do it right.
> > Er, *what*?
>
> Fix the code. Do it right and cleanly.
I'm all for that, but until we find a real Jupiter user we can't test,
and are fixing it to no purp
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> Prove it. I have already sent you a detailed analysis, you keep saying no,
> but refuse to defend your point.
> I can accept an "I don't know yet", but if you keep saying it is wrong I
> expect you to be able to prove your point.
I didn't follow your detailed analysis
>> You could use it as an example of how to do it right.
> Er, *what*?
Fix the code. Do it right and cleanly. Add a comment pointing to the page
with a full description of the whole mess. Have that page point back there
as an example of how to fix the GPS week roll over problem.
It's not a
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:48:25 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
> Gary E. Miller via devel :
> > On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:32:17 -0700
> > Hal Murray wrote:
> >
> > > So the answer is simple. Not yet. All GPS receivers still have
> > > roll over problems.
> >
> > Not so simple. If yo
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:47:02 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
> Gary E. Miller via devel :
> > So get to it! I'm trying to get action items checked off. This
> > was one that was checked off, validated, and working, until you
> > reverted it.
>
> Would have failed in 2036.
Prove it.
Gary E. Miller via devel :
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:32:17 -0700
> Hal Murray wrote:
>
> > So the answer is simple. Not yet. All GPS receivers still have roll
> > over problems.
>
> Not so simple. If your GPS picks up GLONASS, Beidou, Galileo, etc.
> then it will not have the gps week rollover
Gary E. Miller via devel :
> So get to it! I'm trying to get action items checked off. This was one
> that was checked off, validated, and working, until you reverted it.
Would have failed in 2036. Probably the existing code would have,
too, but still. You're not going to push me into moving f
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:32:17 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> So the answer is simple. Not yet. All GPS receivers still have roll
> over problems.
Not so simple. If your GPS picks up GLONASS, Beidou, Galileo, etc.
then it will not have the gps week rollover problem.
RGDS
GARY
-
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 19:08:30 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
> Gary E. Miller via devel :
> > > Not yet. We know that code stinks, but there is still thinking
> > > to be done before replacing it.
> >
> > Rush? Thinking was already done, Hal was happier with the code than
> > what i
Hal Murray :
>
> devel@ntpsec.org said:
> > I think we can drop the Jupiter driver. I looked for rollover compensation
> > and didn't find it. Instead there's this at line 1019:
>
> You could use it as an example of how to do it right.
Er, *what*?
--
http://www.catb.org/~esr/
g...@rellim.com said:
>> We need to find out when they added the 3 extra bits.
> Technically, this is the Transmission Week Number (WN). The 13 bit WN will
> be in the new CNAV messages.
> CNAV messages will not be transmitted until the Block IIIA satellites got
> live. Expected launch Spring
devel@ntpsec.org said:
> I think we can drop the Jupiter driver. I looked for rollover compensation
> and didn't find it. Instead there's this at line 1019:
You could use it as an example of how to do it right.
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
_
This is the list of work items and potential work items I have
extracted from my back mail.
Serious bug: We have a report from MAYER Hans that
ifstats is broken, returning no output. It should be possible to pin down
when this broke with a regression test.
Possible work item (Ian): See how much
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:59:44 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond via devel" wrote:
> Hal Murray :
> >
> > e...@thyrsus.com said:
> > > We can't fix *that*, either. All we can do is add a warning to
> > > the man pages for NMEA-related drivers that if your GPS is older
> > > than 1024 weeks you m
Gary E. Miller via devel :
> > Not yet. We know that code stinks, but there is still thinking to be
> > done before replacing it.
>
> Rush? Thinking was already done, Hal was happier with the code than
> what it is now. What about that code have I not explained clearly yet?
The thinking is not
Hal Murray :
>
> e...@thyrsus.com said:
> > We can't fix *that*, either. All we can do is add a warning to the man
> > pages for NMEA-related drivers that if your GPS is older than 1024 weeks you
> > may be cruising for a bruising. I think I'll go do that.
>
> We need to find out when they add
I think we can drop the Jupiter driver. I looked for rollover
compensation and didn't find it. Instead there's this at line 1019:
instance->timecode =
GPS_EPOCH + (instance->gweek * WEEKSECS) + sweek;
I think that means this driver will have timewarped as of the GPS
rollover
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:21:49 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
> Gary E. Miller :
> > Yo Eric!
> >
> > On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:58:10 -0400
> > "Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
> >
> > > > The code in step_systime() is really really ugly. (to my
> > > > eye)
> > >
> > > Not just to yours.
Yo Achim!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:34:52 +0200
Achim Gratz wrote:
> So, just before I left last week I managed to finally set up a
> temperature controller on my rasPi 3B using three sha512sum processes
> that get individually stopped and continued by the temperature control
> loop every 100ms to
e...@thyrsus.com said:
> We can't fix *that*, either. All we can do is add a warning to the man
> pages for NMEA-related drivers that if your GPS is older than 1024 weeks you
> may be cruising for a bruising. I think I'll go do that.
We need to find out when they added the 3 extra bits.
--
Gary E. Miller :
> Yo Eric!
>
> On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:58:10 -0400
> "Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
>
> > > The code in step_systime() is really really ugly. (to my eye)
> >
> > Not just to yours...
>
> So, can we now got back to my better version? The one that had no
> l_fp or pivot needs or de
Yo Eric!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 09:58:10 -0400
"Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
> > The code in step_systime() is really really ugly. (to my eye)
>
> Not just to yours...
So, can we now got back to my better version? The one that had no
l_fp or pivot needs or dependencies?
RGDS
GARY
Hal Murray :
>
> e...@thyrsus.com said:
> > Huh? Why would it not be discarded as a falseticker?
> > Isn't this one of the cases outlier filtering is for?
>
> Because it's a 18 year old system and 3 out of 4 of the servers it was
> configured with have been retired. :)
We can't fix *that*, e
e...@thyrsus.com said:
> It's hard to tell because there are so very many stale NTP documentation
> trees on the web, often without obvious indication of year or version of
> origin.
Is making sure that all our man and web pages have date and version on the
release checklist?
Where is the relea
e...@thyrsus.com said:
> Huh? Why would it not be discarded as a falseticker?
> Isn't this one of the cases outlier filtering is for?
Because it's a 18 year old system and 3 out of 4 of the servers it was
configured with have been retired. :)
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
Achim Gratz :
> >Would anybody notice a warning message from a program that's been running for
> >19 years?
>
> No, but if it was a time server that systems still followed, it'd take your
> network down quite fast these days. Figuring out why would be a minor
> nightmare.
Huh? Why would it not
> Can someone find a citation for best practice on parts-per-thousand?
> Wikipedia says ppt is used in some disciplines for this.
I've seen PPM and PPB in frequent use.
I don't remember seeing PPT or PPK. PPT I would probably figure out from the
context right away. PPK would take me a bit lo
Hal Murray :
> You are confusing project lifetime with the life of a specific release.
Fair point. My error.
> Can you find documentation for the 20 year old version of ntp classic? (as
> modified by the distro you are using)
Let's see, 20 years old is 1997 at this point...I think I've seen NT
Achim Gratz :
> Eric S. Raymond writes:
> > If we're not working towards a unified vocabulary, what's the point
> > of having a glossary at all?
>
> Please define the scope of that glossary. Your request seemed overly
> broad to me, maybe I'm just reading it wrong. In any case it's not
> clear
Yo Ian!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:06:14 -0500
Ian Bruene wrote:
> On 04/25/2017 12:08 PM, Achim Gratz wrote:
> > When talking about precise frequency measurements I would rather
> > expect ppt to refer to "parts per trillion".
>
> Useful note: the units display code shows parts-per-thousand as
>
g...@rellim.com said:
>> I often have troubles finding the description for a
>> keyword in aconfig file.
> Aren't they all in the ntp.conf man page?
Depends on what you mean by "in".
Here is a chunk:
server
For server addresses, this command mobilizes a persistent client
On 04/25/2017 12:08 PM, Achim Gratz wrote:
When talking about precise frequency measurements I would rather expect
ppt to refer to "parts per trillion".
Useful note: the units display code shows parts-per-thousand as "ppk",
parts-per-kilo in order to avoid this collision.
--
In the end; wh
e...@thyrsus.com said:
>> The documentation issue gets interesting. A feature
>> isn't any good if you can't figure out how to use it. I wonder
>> if the web will solve that problem.
>> Will NTPsec still be online 20 years from now? Will we
>> maintain online versions of 20 year old releases?
Yo Hal!
On Tue, 25 Apr 2017 10:23:11 -0700
Hal Murray wrote:
> I often have troubles finding the description for a keyword in a
> config file.
Aren't they all in the ntp.conf man page?
RGDS
GARY
---
Gary E. Miller Rellim 1
Eric S. Raymond writes:
> If we're not working towards a unified vocabulary, what's the point
> of having a glossary at all?
Please define the scope of that glossary. Your request seemed overly
broad to me, maybe I'm just reading it wrong. In any case it's not
clear for me what you actually wa
I often have troubles finding the description for a keyword in a config file.
How about a page with a list, sorted alphabetically, of links to the details.
Maybe a few words of context so you don't have to follow a link to discover
that it isn't what you are looking for.
A few of them may wan
Achim Gratz :
> Gary E. Miller writes:
> > Glossary:
> >
> > frequency offset:
> > The difference between the ntpd calculated frequency and the local
> > system clock frequency (usually in parts per million, ppm)
>
> It's actually the current correction ntpd applies to the system clock
> (for
Achim Gratz :
> Eric S. Raymond writes:
> > Achim, you and Gary *both* get to write glossaries covering terms like
> > precision, accuracy, drift, and related stuff. Give it your best
> > shot(s). If, after a reasonable period of time, I have a glossary
> > only from one of you, tha person wins a
Gary E. Miller writes:
> Glossary:
>
> frequency offset:
> The difference between the ntpd calculated frequency and the local system
> clock frequency (usually in parts per million, ppm)
It's actually the current correction ntpd applies to the system clock
(for ppm, the correct unit would be
Hal Murray :
>
> g...@rellim.com said:
> > I'd have ntpd reject any time prior to EPOCH.
>
> How do you decide whether to reject it or pivot it into the future?
This is indeed a problem, and it's fundamental whenever you're trying to
work with devices that have time conters that can roll over w
Eric S. Raymond writes:
> Achim, you and Gary *both* get to write glossaries covering terms like
> precision, accuracy, drift, and related stuff. Give it your best
> shot(s). If, after a reasonable period of time, I have a glossary
> only from one of you, tha person wins and the glossary gets ble
Mark, heads up - policy issue related to old GPS support.
Hal Murray :
>
> strom...@nexgo.de said:
> > Even if you only consider physical hardware, based on the projected
> > lifetime of automotive qualified systems (15 years or longer) you have to
> > expect a much longer actual lifetime in th
Hal Murray :
> More pivoting
>
> pylib calls ntp.ntpc.lfptofloat() in several places
>
> ntpc_lfptofloat() calls lfp_stamp_to_tspec()
> That's an inline which calls ntpcal_ntp_to_time()
>
> ntpcal_ntp_to_time takes an optional second argument, the pivot time.
> If it's NULL, it uses "now".
Hal Murray :
>
> g...@rellim.com said:
> >> I think we need a chart/table showing the types of packets we send
> >> and expect to receive.
> > How about the RFC? I would hate to duplicate that.
>
> No, that's not what I'm looking for.
>
> We only implement a subset of the full spec. For examp
Hal Murray writes:
> Is the slot that is not working right being setup by DNS? As in
> server foo.example.com maxpoll 5
> rather than
> server 1.2.3.4 maxpoll 6
Yes.
> If so, does it work correctly when setup by numerical IP Address?
I can't test that right now, not sure when I'll have time
strom...@nexgo.de said:
>> Are you using DNS to set things up? You might have stumbled
>> into something I broke.
> Yes, I use the DNS from my router to target the local servers (besides the
> external ones, obviously).
Is the slot that is not working right being setup by DNS? As in
server
Hal Murray writes:
> Are you using DNS to set things up? You might have stumbled into something I
> broke.
Yes, I use the DNS from my router to target the local servers (besides
the external ones, obviously).
Regards,
Achim.
--
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld
Are you using DNS to set things up? You might have stumbled into something I
broke.
--
These are my opinions. I hate spam.
___
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Gary E. Miller writes:
>> The displayed poll value never changes. But the actual poll interval
>> obviously gets much longer than what was set.
>
> How can you tell? I watched with ntpmon and the actual poll matched the
> poll shown.
None of the peerstats update at the poll interval, so I conclu
g...@rellim.com said:
>> Debian wheezy:
>> ../../ntpd/ntp_config.c:2955:2: warning: implicit declaration of
>> function =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=CB=9Cyyparse=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=E2=84=A2 [-Wimplicit=
>> -function-declaration]
>> ../../ntpd/ntp_config.c:3020:2: error: =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=CB=9Cyydebug=C3=A2=
>> =E2=8
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