--host=i386-redhat-linux-gnu --target=i686-redhat-linux-gnu ???

2010-02-01 Thread Owen Taylor
Looking at the build logs for F-12, e.g.: http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/glib2/2.22.4/1.fc12/data/logs/i686/build.log we seem to have things set up to run configure as: --build=i386-redhat-linux-gnu --host=i386-redhat-linux-gnu --target=i686-redhat-linux-gnu Which, according to m

Re: Nautilus still no go in rawhide

2010-09-25 Thread Owen Taylor
On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 17:16 +0100, Paul F. Johnson wrote: > Hi, > > What is going on with Nautilus? It's not been usable for quite a while > now. Most recently, I've had it working by starting it from a terminal > window but now even that has stopped working and is giving me the > following > Gtk

Re: Nautilus still no go in rawhide

2010-09-25 Thread Owen Taylor
On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 09:31 -0700, Tom London wrote: > 1. Nautilus no longer displays the desktop; believe I got some > indication that this was part of the move to a newer desktop Since you aren't actually running the newer desktop (GNOME Shell is temporarily not working in Rawhide, we'll ge

Re: Nautilus still no go in rawhide

2010-09-25 Thread Owen Taylor
On Sat, 2010-09-25 at 14:04 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > (nautilus:11408): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_ref: assertion > > `G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed > > Segmentation fault (core dumped) > > There also seem to be problems with nautilus from GTK+ ABI chang

Compile with -fno-omit-frame-pointer on x86_64?

2010-11-03 Thread Owen Taylor
Lack of decent profiling is a major problem for making our operating system fast. By far the most effective of profiling is sampling profile with callgraph information. Soeren's comment from March: http://lwn.net/Articles/380582/ Basically summarizes the situation, and as far as I know nothing

Re: Compile with -fno-omit-frame-pointer on x86_64?

2010-11-03 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 19:58 +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote: > On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 02:48:12PM -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > Lack of decent profiling is a major problem for making our operating > > system fast. By far the most effective of profiling is sampling profile > > with

Re: Compile with -fno-omit-frame-pointer on x86_64?

2010-11-03 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 21:11 +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote: > On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 04:10:30PM -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: > > On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 19:58 +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 03, 2010 at 02:48:12PM -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > > > Basically su

Re: Compile with -fno-omit-frame-pointer on x86_64?

2010-11-03 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, 2010-11-03 at 20:29 +0100, Jakub Jelinek wrote: > > It seems like if it was that easy, it would have happened and we'd have > > a solution in the upstream kernel... > > I think we had one in the upstream kernel for some time, then Linus just > didn't like to see it needing too many bugfix

Re: Gnome Games Clutter/OpenGL issues

2010-04-20 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 13:18 -0400, Mark Bidewell wrote: > I have been dealing with this issue in the context of Ubuntu Lucid, > however since it can be reproduced under F13 Beta I thought it would > be wise to raise it here. In some cases, gnome-games do not properly > fall back to software render

Re: Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

2010-11-13 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 18:07 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > Kevin Fenzi writes: > > > * gnome3 / gnome-shell default > > And what about systems with hardware that does not support accelerated 3D? There will be a fallback to gnome-panel, Metacity, and notification-daemon * The fallback componen

Re: Fedora 15, new and exciting plans

2010-11-14 Thread Owen Taylor
On Sat, 2010-11-13 at 11:15 -0500, Genes MailLists wrote: > On 11/13/2010 10:45 AM, Owen Taylor wrote: > > On Fri, 2010-11-12 at 18:07 -0500, Sam Varshavchik wrote: > >> Kevin Fenzi writes: > >> > >>> * gnome3 / gnome-shell default > >> >

Clutter 1.5.8 in rawhide

2010-11-29 Thread Owen Taylor
Just a quick heads up - I'm currently building Clutter 1.5.8 into rawhide. Supposedly this is 100% compatible with Clutter 1.4, but there are a lot of internal changes in the backend parts so there's a possibility of bugs/regressions. (I was waiting to upgrade in Rawhide until we got the necessar

Page flipping on intel (2.11 driver)

2010-05-02 Thread Owen Taylor
With the 2.11 update for xorg-x11-drv-intel in updates-testing we have a couple of serious problems occurring with gnome-shell on Intel systems: A) A complete hang where the system can't even be pinged. B) A problem where the system continues to run fine but the GPU gets "stuck" and no furt

Re: Disable PulseAudio flat volumes to prevent it from pushing volume level to max

2015-09-21 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, 2015-09-17 at 23:26 +0200, Germano Massullo wrote: > Il 17/09/2015 21:13, Andrew Lutomirski ha scritto: > > > > To clarify: did you get blasted by music or by video conference > > sounds?  If the music volume got louder, then it sounds like either > > a > > straight-up bug in PulseAudio (a

Re: How to handle upgrades to Fedora 21

2014-10-03 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 12:37 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Wed, Oct 01, 2014 at 04:28:22PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > The thing to note is that in all scenarios, the user *MUST* fully update > > their F20 system first, or the results will be undefined and could be > > unpleasant. We nee

Re: How to handle upgrades to Fedora 21

2014-10-03 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 16:57 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > To that end, fedup will grow a new mandatory option: --product. It will > take one of four arguments: "standard" (non-productized), "server", > "workstation" or cloud. I volunteered to come up with the text if you dont' specify --produc

Re: Better Thermal Management for the Workstation - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Owen Taylor
So, this was discussed quite a bit in https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/71 and the conclusion that the Workstatopn Working Group came to 3 months ago was that we didn't want to do this. We basically understood that main way of using thermald was to use the proprietary dptfxtract tool to ex

Re: Fedora Developer Portal as a application

2016-05-31 Thread Owen Taylor
Hi Petr and Frantisek, Are there future plans for developing this further, or is the goal just to have the website running in an application-style window? - Owen - Original Message - > Hi folks, > > I am happy to announce, Frantisek Zatloukal did Fedora Developer Portal > package [1].

Re: Fedora development of Snap packages

2016-06-17 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, 2016-06-17 at 09:59 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 09:11:48PM +0200, Alexander Larsson wrote: > > For atomic workstation, this is the goal. We even need that, > > because in > > that setup the OS (/usr) would be a read-only image (based on > > rpms), so > > we could

Re: Power consumption with Fedora

2014-12-02 Thread Owen Taylor
Hi John, Power consumption is definitely an area that Fedora can improve, and an area where we've begun to do some investigation. Measuring battery life is hard, because when power saving is working, battery life depends so much on what the user is doing. Many manufacturers don't even provide ba

Re: How many users does Fedora have?

2014-12-02 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2014-12-02 at 11:12 -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On 2 December 2014 at 09:22, Matthew Miller > wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2014 at 05:15:38PM +0100, jfm...@free.fr > wrote: > > Now it seems Fedora's downloads have been steadily going > downwards >

Re: Unresponsive maintainer Owen Taylor (otaylor) of package metacity

2017-06-08 Thread Owen Taylor
ty addressing the > outdatedness of the version available from the build server, e.g. see > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1217991. > > Package maintainer Owen Taylor has not replied to any question or request for > months. Does anybody know about his current s

Re: Unresponsive maintainer Owen Taylor (otaylor) of package metacity

2017-06-09 Thread Owen Taylor
Yes - on the livecd, the Anaconda window is managed by gnome-shell, like other applications. Owen - Original Message - > On Thu, Jun 08, 2017 at 10:20:26PM -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > I've now turned over ownership of Metacity to Yaakov Selkowitz who had > > reque

Re: [Modularity] A proposal for stream naming

2017-06-29 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 04:07:43PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > So far, easy, I think. But what about modules like mine which are > collections of stuff? We could give them an arbitrary version and > increment that. Or, since this module will to follow the same 13-month > lifecycle of a base Fed

Status report on Flatpaks in Fedora Infrastructure

2017-07-03 Thread Owen Taylor
I've just submitted a change proposal for creating Flatpaks out of Fedora package content: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Graphical_Applications_as_Flatpaks This is submitted as a F27 change proposal, but it's expected that it will be multiple releases before everything in the final

[modularity] Some questions about module requires

2017-07-03 Thread Owen Taylor
The prototype flatpak-runtime module that I’ve been working on is built upon the (F26) base-runtime and shared-userspace modules, and I’ve hit some conceptual questions about the nature of the “modulemd” requires relationship. * Is a module tied to the exact version of the modules it requires t

Re: [Modularity] A proposal for stream naming

2017-07-06 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, 2017-07-06 at 13:39 -0400, langdon wrote: > On 06/29/2017 11:30 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 10:49:20AM -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > > So my expectation is that the number of "collections modules" > > > that have no stron

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-10 Thread Owen Taylor
phical_Applications_as_Flatpaks > Change owner(s): > * Owen Taylor This change is to enable package > maintainers to build Flatpaks of > their applications and make those Flatpaks available for installation. > > > I do recognize that the containerization trend solves enough

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, 2017-07-10 at 00:46 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > = System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks = > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Graphical_Applications_as_Fl > > atpaks > > > > Change owner(s): > > * O

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-17 Thread Owen Taylor
On Sat, 2017-07-15 at 13:43 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 02:56:34PM -0700, Andrew Lutomirski wrote: > > This is only a problem because Flatpak is currently following the > > IMO > > rather busted old Android model. With very few, if any, exceptions, > > I > > think a much

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-17 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, 2017-07-17 at 17:51 +0200, nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: > > There's a > > burning the ships sort of appeal in that approach, > > Actually, the correct analogy would be "burning platform" (and we all > know how well that ended). I almost certainly should avoid responding to such an

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-17 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, 2017-07-14 at 21:29 +0200, Lars Seipel wrote: > On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 11:26:04PM -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: > > But we have not been. Very few applications actually have SELinux > > profiles, > > and they are all maintained downstream rather than upstream. The > > volume of > > er

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-18 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2017-07-18 at 08:35 +0200, nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: > > > Even if it eventually succeeds crash-landing it in Fedora while > > > half > > > the security and management tools are lacking is a great way for > > > the > > > distribution to get an awful reputation, while others will ri

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-18 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2017-07-18 at 15:25 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 at 13:39, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > > On Tue, 2017-07-18 at 13:23 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski > > wrote: > > > By the way, I can't figure out how to look inside a Flatpak and > > > review its

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-18 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2017-07-18 at 13:23 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote: > On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 at 00:02, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Kevin Kofler > at> > > wrote: > > > The problem is that the RPMs that go into the Flatpaks are not > > > FHS- > > > compliant,

Re: F27 System Wide Change: Graphical Applications as Flatpaks

2017-07-18 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2017-07-18 at 21:41 +0200, nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: > De: "Owen Taylor" > > > But I want to be clear that there is no *proposal* on the > > table to ship things Flatpak only, and *no proposed timescale*. And > > there won't be until we kn

Re: Draft Workstation WG Governance Charter

2013-11-04 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 15:22 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Ray Strode wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 9:01 AM, Josh Boyer > > wrote: > >> The other positions will be filled by general election > >> every two years. As a special exception, four seats wi

Re: Draft Product Description for Fedora Workstation

2013-11-04 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, 2013-11-04 at 10:58 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 12:18:16PM +0100, Florian Müllner wrote: > > > GNOME decided to break it all the time (can't even get extensions work > > > from one gnome-shell version to the next one and no gracefully disabling > > > is still func

Re: RFC: Change the default hostname for Fedora 26+

2016-11-08 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, 2016-11-08 at 16:49 -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > My proposal is that we should consider changing the default hostname > for Fedora 26 to be either FED-XXX or FEDORA-. The > former allows for a longer random string and therefore lower risk of > collision in large environ

Re: F26 System Wide Change: pkgconf as system pkg-config implementation

2017-01-05 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, 2017-01-04 at 09:20 +0100, Jan Kurik wrote: > = System Wide Change: pkgconf as system pkg-config implementation = > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/pkgconf_as_system_pkg-config_i > mplementation > > Change owner(s): > * Igor Gnatenko > * Neal Gompa > > This change switches Fedora

Re: Disappearing mouse pointer

2019-08-08 Thread Owen Taylor
Recently filed bugs about similar issues: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1738614 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1739169 Not sure if they are the *same* problem or different problems. They look like the same issue (cursor only visible over application windows) - but one r

Re: Disappearing mouse pointer

2019-08-08 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:34 PM Antonio M wrote: > I am the reporter of bug > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1738614 > I have never such an issue before kernels 5..2.x and it is not always true > that clicking on notation bar solves the issue > Do you think you could try downgrading

Improving the compose: leave the current compose in place

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
A lot of discussion about improving the compose process seem to end up with a "reality check" - that ideas have already been tried but don't work because of requirements a) b) c) d). You can't have the pony, but maybe if a lot of effort is put into it, you can have a faster rocking horse. If want

Re: Proposal: Move to an annual platform release starting at F30

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:26 PM Brendan Conoboy wrote:> > On 11/16/18 7:50 AM, Paul Frields wrote: > [snip] > > We should skip the F31 release cycle and leave F30 in place longer in > > order to focus on improving the tooling and testing changes. These > > tooling changes will improve the overall

Re: Improving the compose: leave the current compose in place

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:12 AM Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > Define what a compose is? Currently it is a word which covers a > multitude of different processes and reasons for those processes. We > can't 'fix' or even 'replace' or parallel them without actually > knowing why someone duct taped t

What does delaying F31 mean for packagers/users?

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
One of the key parts of making a decision to delay/skip F31 is figuring out, ahead of the decision, what the expected experience is for users and packagers. Does F30 have normal stability, or do we try to keep users happy by moving things forward with ad-hoc updates and cross-our-fingers and hope n

Re: Proposal: Move to an annual platform release starting at F30

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:05 AM Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:13 AM Owen Taylor wrote: > > But for the next thousand or so Fedora developers, the release cycle > > is actually not a big deal - not something that takes much of their > > time - and it gives

Re: What does delaying F31 mean for packagers/users?

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:51 AM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > As came up in another part of the earlier thread, I think this is an > opportunity for Modularity. For those things like GNOME that want to > rev mid-release, if they shipped the 3.34 release as new stream, those > that want to move to it

Re: Proposal: Move to an annual platform release starting at F30

2018-11-27 Thread Owen Taylor
ote: > > On 11/27/18 10:13 AM, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:21 AM Owen Taylor wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:05 AM Josh Boyer > >> wrote: > >>> On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:13 AM Owen Taylor wrote: > >>>&

Re: Proposal: Move to an annual platform release starting at F30

2018-11-28 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:07 AM Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote: > I think that Fedora's role as an innovater in the OS space means we > should be aggressively exploring this. Rolling Releases, Tech-Driven > Releases and Time-Based Releases all have well known positives and > negatives. All of the

Re: Proposal: Move to an annual platform release starting at F30

2018-11-28 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:40 PM Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 11:37, Owen Taylor wrote: > > Fedora needs to be an operating system provider, not just an operating > > system toolbox provider. > > I feel like we have been saying this for 15+ yea

Re: /usr/include/GL/glext.h:467:10: fatal error: KHR/khrplatform.h: No such file or directory

2018-12-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 4:24 AM Samuel Rakitničan < srakitni...@fedoraproject.org wrote: > Hi, > > Got an e-mail from Koschei [1] with a notice that camotics package is > starting to fail to build. The reason for this seems to be that something > that used to pull mesa-libEGL-devel doesn't do so any

Re: F30: System-Wide Change proposal: DNF UUID

2019-01-08 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 7:17 AM Benjamin Berg wrote: > > On Tue, 2019-01-08 at 12:33 +0100, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > > Dne 08. 01. 19 v 11:35 Nicolas Mailhot napsal(a): > > > *which* *do* *not* *permit* *or* *no* *longer* *permit* *the* > > > *identification* *of* *data* *subjects* > > > > How do yo

Proposal: Add a separate “flatpaks/” namespace.

2019-01-08 Thread Owen Taylor
Currently, the content for a Flatpak in Fedora can be found in modules/. E.g.: https://src.fedoraproject.org/modules/quadrapassel/tree/master - I’d like to propose creating a separate namespace in src.fedoraproject.org - flatpaks/ Benefits: * Allow automation to easily distinguish Flatpaks from o

Re: Proposal: Add a separate “flatpaks/” namespace.

2019-01-11 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 12:28 PM Owen Taylor wrote: > * In fedscm_admin: Map flatpaks namespace to the ‘module’ PDC branch > type when storing the SLA into the PDC, to avoid PDC changes, and > because the SLA really is a module SLA. Digging into this, I don't think this is right -

Re: F30 System-Wide Change proposal: Replace Comps Language Group With Langpacks

2019-01-20 Thread Owen Taylor
If I understand the proposal, I'm slightly concerned that the proposed use of Supplements: means that there will be no longer any single place where we declare "this is our recommended font for LangX, this is our recommended input method for LangX" - the history of this will be collectively over al

Re: F30 Self-Contained Change proposal: Ibus-typing-booster default for Indian languages

2019-01-27 Thread Owen Taylor
> Currently, ibus-m17n is the default input method for Indian languages > in Fedora. ibus-typing-booster uses the same libm17n used by > ibus-m17n to support input for Indian languages and thus it can do > everything ibus-m17n can do. But on top of that, ibus-typing-booster > supports predictive i

Re: F30 Self-Contained Change proposal: Ibus-typing-booster default for Indian languages

2019-01-28 Thread Owen Taylor
Jens-Ulrik Petersen wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen Taylor wrote: >> >> I see that I have ibus-typing-booster installed, but I don't see any >> sign of it in the GNOME "Region & Language" panel input source >> selection. Does ibus-typin

Re: Can't figure out how to build flatpaks

2019-01-31 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:23 PM Pete Walter wrote: > I've noticed that someone created a flatpak build for one of my packages > (feedreader), but it's horribly out of date: flatpak has 2.5.1 vs rpm has > 2.7.0. I've been trying to update the flatpak build, but not much luck here. > The documen

Re: Idea to add defaultfont(:lang=xx) rpm Provides to default font packages

2019-02-21 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 3:04 AM Peng Wu wrote: > When the langpack packages Requires font(:lang=xx), it will pull in > one random font package choose from several fonts packages which > Provides font(:lang=xx). > > To fix random fonts dependencies problem, I think maybe we can > manually add "

Re: More than 10% of all Fedora spec files are not POSIX sh compliant

2019-03-22 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 1:04 PM Japheth Cleaver wrote: > > On 3/21/2019 3:23 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > So what? On Fedora /bin/sh is bash, and bash is a fine shell. > > All this nonsense of using dash for /bin/sh on Debian is IMO a > pointless bunch of make-work. > > Fedora has certainly

RFC: Flatpak application versioning: rolling stable

2018-08-08 Thread Owen Taylor
The Fedora today, there was a presentation about a vision for how applications should have a different life cycle than the operating system: https://flock2018.sched.com/event/Fjdk/at-long-last-rings-split-lifecycles For Flatpaks, the future is now - as soon as we start building them, I'd like to

Perl dependencies of KDE libraries

2018-08-13 Thread Owen Taylor
Hi Rex, As part of my Flaptak efforts, I've been looking what libraries and other packages are used by our most popular applications and I noticed that all applications using KDE libraries are pulling in a pile of perl packages. As far as I can tell, this is only because of the two scripts: /usr

Re: [modularity] Managing module lifecycles — let's talk!

2018-08-22 Thread Owen Taylor
What are the possibilities for how a stream is maintained? The cases I can think of: * Indefinite - rolling forward with upstream - "master" "stable" etc. * Tied to an upstream version and it's EOL - a "2.1" stream of django * [less common] tied to a particular version of Fedora - the "29" str

Flatpaks in src.fedproject.org - a namespace conumdrum

2018-09-04 Thread Owen Taylor
The current idea = A Flatpak is a module. The way that the module is deployed is by creating a Flatpak container from the module. (Other modules might be deployed by installing by RPMs directly or creating a server container.) Because Flatpaks are a module, they share the modules/ nam

Re: Flatpaks in src.fedproject.org - a namespace conumdrum

2018-09-04 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018, 11:54 PM Ray Strode wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 4:00 PM Owen Taylor wrote: > I haven't dealt with modularity yet, really, so tell me if i wrong (i'm > kind of guessing a little bit from briefly snooping around). module > building is

Call for participation: Fedora Flatpaks

2018-09-06 Thread Owen Taylor
I'd like to invite Fedora contributors to start creating Flatpaks of graphical applications in Fedora. We're still working on putting the final pieces into place to have a complete story from end to end, but it's definitely close enough to get started. If you maintain a graphical application, plea

Re: Call for participation: Fedora Flatpaks

2018-09-07 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 2:52 AM, Robin Lee wrote: > What does it mean for 'Fedora' Flatpaks? > - Flatpaks that run on a Fedora runtime? Then, what's the benifit to > use Fedora runtime instead of freedesktop ones? > - Flatpaks that maintained by Fedora community? Then, why not > encourage people t

Re: Call for participation: Fedora Flatpaks

2018-09-07 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 4:03 AM, Michal Konečný wrote: > I thought there will be some automatic building script for flatpaks, so > the maintainers doesn't need to do it by themselves. > Is this automatization now dropped? > One level of automation is 'fedmod rpm2flatpak' which automatically figur

Re: Call for participation: Fedora Flatpaks

2018-09-07 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 3:36 AM, Vít Ondruch wrote: > Dne 7.9.2018 v 03:45 Owen Taylor napsal(a): > > [...] > > If you maintain a graphical application, please try creating a Flatpak of > it. Your experience will vary - some applications are quite easy, but if > your app

Re: Call for participation: Fedora Flatpaks

2018-09-07 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 5:29 AM, Martin Kolman wrote: > On Fri, 2018-09-07 at 05:06 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > [...] > That's *very* nice & something I have been calling for basically from day > one with flatpacks. > > Not everyone wants to become a relea

Re: Call for participation: Fedora Flatpaks

2018-09-07 Thread Owen Taylor
Hi Bastien, Here are some of the benefits I see of this effort as compared to simply telling users to consume Flatpaks from Flathub or independent repositories: * Benefit to Flaptak users on all distributions: more applications are available more quickly. Some applications will be much easier to

Re: What to do about sagemath

2018-09-24 Thread Owen Taylor
Using modules for this purpose will take some care for parallel installability - unless you are happy with sagemath only being runnable from within a container. Unless I'm missing something, to restore a python2 subpackage that has been removed in the main Fedora, you'd need to: - Create a strea

Re: Managing stream (arbitrary) branch and module lifecycles

2018-09-24 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 7:04 AM Adam Samalik wrote: > I thought about this for a while, and I can see some conceptual > similarities between upgrading a major Fedora release and changing a module > stream. I tried to think about major Fedora releases (I mean f28, f29, etc) > as "streams" of Fedor

Re: python2-matplotlib needs a maintainer (was: matplotlib 3 (no Python 2 support) in rawhide)

2018-09-27 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 10:15 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 21.9.2018 12:19, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > We updated python-matplotlib to 3.0.0. It only supports Python 3. This > > was done in Rawhide only. > > > > The python2-matplotlib* subpackages were moved to a new SRPM, > > python2-matplotlib (rem

Re: Fedora Lifecycles: imagine longer-term possibilities

2018-11-14 Thread Owen Taylor
Thanks for starting this discussion, Matthew! A few notes: * My personal long-term dream is that all Fedora users are running Silverblue, we do great automated QA testing, and upgrading from one Fedora to the next is a non-event, and opt-out rather than opt-in, and long term support would not be

Re: Last dbus upgrade issues

2018-11-26 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 9:59 AM Tomasz Kłoczko wrote: > 1) if dbus service crashes/is not availaible temporary IMO it wold be > good to prepare whole desktop apps code to not crash but handle dbus > disconnection and maybe display centered message that it is not > possible to connect to dbus. Cras

Future of encryption in Fedora

2023-04-03 Thread Owen Taylor
I just posted a thread on discussion.fedoraproject.org: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/future-of-encryption-in-fedora/80397 to invite discussion of a requirements document and draft plan about what we might do for encrypting Fedora Workstation systems in the future. Please follow up ther

Re: Future of encryption in Fedora

2023-04-06 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 12:32 PM Simo Sorce wrote: > On Mon, 2023-04-03 at 16:18 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 3 2023 at 01:41:48 PM -0700, Brian C. Lane > > wrote: > > > This seems like exactly the kind of discussion that belongs on the > > > devel > > > list, not on a website

Re: Future of encryption in Fedora

2023-04-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, Apr 7, 2023 at 5:12 AM Simo Sorce wrote: > On Thu, 2023-04-06 at 12:56 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 12:32 PM Simo Sorce wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 2023-04-03 at 16:18 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 3 2023

Re: F39 proposal: BiggerESP (Self-Contained Change proposal)

2023-05-09 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 12:39 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 12:31 PM Lennart Poettering > wrote: > > > > On Di, 09.05.23 08:22, Neal Gompa (ngomp...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > I've been asked to consider converting /boot to a Btrfs subvolume so > > > that it no longer has a fixed

Re: F39 proposal: BiggerESP (Self-Contained Change proposal)

2023-05-09 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 2:31 PM Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Chris Murphy said: > > What about the increasing growth in linux-firmware and in particular the > NVIDIA firmware requirements? My reading suggests it's significant and the > future growth also significant. > > Could we use a

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 8:06 AM Milan Crha wrote: > On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 11:54 +0100, Aoife Moloney wrote: > > Additionally a couple of packages (evolution-data-services and > > tracker-miners) are set up so they can be > > built with an application-specific D-Bus prefix. Evolution has: > > > >

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 9:48 AM Florian Weimer wrote: > * Aoife Moloney: > > > There are two types of Flatpak containers - > > runtimes - which contain unmodified Fedora packages, > > and applications - which contain Fedora packages rebuilt to relocate > > them from /usr to /app. > > Is this relo

Re: F39 proposal: BiggerESP (Self-Contained Change proposal)

2023-05-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 12:02 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > This proposal isn't better. Neither Windows nor macOS put critical > operating system code in the ESP, and we shouldn't either. But you > want to put kernels in the ESP? That's the wrong approach too. > > As soon as you throw UKIs in the mix,

Re: F39 proposal: BiggerESP (Self-Contained Change proposal)

2023-05-10 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 5:34 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > > > On Wed, May 10, 2023, at 2:24 PM, Owen Taylor wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 12:02 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > Now, there's a second problem with reading everything from the ESP - it's >

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-11 Thread Owen Taylor
> I'm just wondering whether the name suffix is the right place to put "flatpak" as if it were a subpackage - can we use the dist tag instead, say `fi39` for "fedora immutable based on fedora 39" or something like that? Or `fp39` for `fedora flatpak ...`? The main difference is what happens when y

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-11 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 2:31 PM Dan Čermák wrote: > Hi, > > Aoife Moloney writes: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FlatpaksWithoutModules > > > snip > > > > There is considerable implementation complexity within OSBS to implement > this, > > because the N/V/R need to be written into

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-12 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, May 12, 2023, 1:03 PM Mattia Verga via devel < devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > Il 10/05/23 12:54, Aoife Moloney ha scritto: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/FlatpaksWithoutModules > > > > > I've never tried to make a flatpak because I was scared by the need of > firstly b

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-12 Thread Owen Taylor
On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 1:34 PM Florian Weimer wrote: > * Owen Taylor: > > > On Wed, May 10, 2023 at 9:48 AM Florian Weimer > wrote: > > > > * Aoife Moloney: > > > > > There are two types of Flatpak containers - > > > runtimes - w

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-13 Thread Owen Taylor
On Sat, May 13, 2023, 4:24 AM Mattia Verga via devel < devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > Il 13/05/23 03:04, Owen Tay rt I look > > On Fri, May 12, 2023, 1:03 PM Mattia Verga via devel < > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > >> Il 10/05/23 12:54, Aoife Moloney ha scritto: >> M kk kk kk kk

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-17 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 1:51 AM Milan Crha wrote: > On Wed, 2023-05-10 at 09:30 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > Does that sound workable? Are there better ways we could do it? > > Hi, > if I recall correctly, using the custom D-Bus prefix is there to match > appli

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-17 Thread Owen Taylor
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 4:42 AM Petr Pisar wrote: > [...] > > Any Fedora packager can rebuild a package into f39-app using 'fepdkg > > build --target=f39-app'. > > > [...] > > Once a package exists in f39-app or f38-app, then > > [[ > https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/ci-cd/distrosync/distr

Re: F39 Proposal: Make Toolbx a release-blocking deliverable and have release-blocking test criteria (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-24 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 11:52 AM Kevin Fenzi wrote: > Just a general answer/info here at the bottom of the thread... > > I realize our container build pipeline is not great, but it's currently > working and I will keep it working until we replace it. > > I agree we should replace it, and there's l

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-25 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 4:02 AM Florian Weimer wrote: > * Owen Taylor: > > > On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 1:34 PM Florian Weimer > wrote: > > > Do you have a pointer where I can read up on the current approach? > > > > Some references that I found quickly: >

Re: F39 Change Proposal: Flatpaks without Modules (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-25 Thread Owen Taylor
On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 6:57 AM Petr Pisar wrote: > V Thu, May 25, 2023 at 06:04:51AM -0400, Owen Taylor napsal(a): > > * We need to rebuild files that can contain data from both parts > > (/etc/ld.so.conf, /usr/lib/fontconfig/cache, etc.) > > How does splitting files fr

Re: F39 Proposal: Make Toolbx a release-blocking deliverable and have release-blocking test criteria (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-29 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 8:16 AM Debarshi Ray via devel < devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > Hey Owen, > > On Wed, 2023-05-24 at 13:50 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > > > What if we made the Toolbox container image just one more base image > &g

Re: F39 Proposal: Make Toolbx a release-blocking deliverable and have release-blocking test criteria (System-Wide Change)

2023-05-30 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:47 AM Debarshi Ray wrote: > Hey Owen, > > On Mon, 2023-05-29 at 12:39 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 8:16 AM Debarshi Ray via devel > > wrote: > > > > > > My main concern, which I had brought up in the R

Re: F39 Proposal: Make Toolbx a release-blocking deliverable and have release-blocking test criteria (System-Wide Change)

2023-06-05 Thread Owen Taylor
On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 8:35 AM Josh Boyer wrote: > On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 6:28 AM Debarshi Ray via devel > wrote: > > I wanted to wrap up this sub-thread on-list, after Owen and I chatted > > about it off-list. > > > > I am fine with having the fedora-toolbox OCI images being defined as > > kick

Re: LibreOffice packages

2023-06-06 Thread Owen Taylor
On Tue, Jun 6, 2023 at 7:50 AM Leon Fauster via devel < devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > Is the Fedora OCI flatpak approach not about the trust into the chain of > flatpak creation? src -> signed rpm -> flatpak? So, even in an ideal world > where RHEL is immutable and the best workstation e

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