Re: what is the F19 way to disable ipv6?

> It is, it's the task of the kernel to refuse to create ipv6 sockets if > ipv6 is disabled, certainly not that of the software to find the > platform specific way of caring if ipv6 is enabled or not. > > Open a bug against the kernel if you think this is really an issue (I do > not see what's the

Re: what is the F19 way to disable ipv6?

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:55:24PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > > > Am 15.07.2013 16:44, schrieb Michal Schmidt: > > On 07/13/2013 01:44 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: > >> please take a look at this > >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=982740#c12 > >> > >> what do we do in the future to d

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 17:02, Miroslav Suchý (msu...@redhat.com) wrote: > On 07/15/2013 03:37 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > >But anyway, this is quite anecdotal. > > I was not laughing when I was on site. Hmm? Anecdotal certainly doesn't imply amusing? > If you are working on some computer game, yo

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 16:29, Thomas Bendler (m...@bendler-net.de) wrote: > > Note that we do include journalctl on all our livecds. Also, most > > distributions do include it in some way or another, and you do not need > > to boot systemd to use to it access your journal files. > > > > There are more

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Monday 15 July 2013 16:29:08 Thomas Bendler wrote: > 2013/7/15 Lennart Poettering > ​[...] > Well, assuming that bash is entirely in memory. And also, note that > neither cat, nor cp, nor tail are actually bash builtins and will not > work. It's pretty hard (though certainly possible) viewing

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

+1 for this proposal. One of the first steps I take after installing Fedora on a new machine is to remove the MTA. It would be nice for this to be the default. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

I vote against this proposal as stated. I want all the systems I administer to have a /var/log/messages without any special configuration having to be done. I don't care whether /var/log/messages is written by syslog or systemd journal, as long as it has essentially the same text-based format as

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:34:33AM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > What's our update story for cloud images ? We have the ability to do ad-hoc updates for critical flaws -- we did that once for F17/F18 in the last few months. But in general, the primary approach is yum update. > While you coul

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

Le Lun 15 juillet 2013 15:47, Lennart Poettering a écrit : > On Mon, 15.07.13 15:42, Nicolas Mailhot (nicolas.mail...@laposte.net) > wrote: > >> > Any references to open bugs about this? >> >> not really, since one of the things I've not figured out yet is how to >> get >> reliable logs of late sh

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Tue, 16.07.13 00:55, Dan Fruehauf (malko...@gmail.com) wrote: > +1 - same here. You're far from being alone. > > I'm still trying to get used to the new systemd in Fedora and still trying > to think why I need it. Altogether for my day to day use I find it as added > complexity with no real be

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Monday 15 July 2013 13:23:29 Lennart Poettering wrote: > Hence, the choice between "journal by default + syslog optional" and > "journal optional + syslog by default" does not exist. The choice > between "journal by default + syslog by default" and "journal by default > + syslog optional" howeve

qcow2 compression [was Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:06:26PM +0200, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:22:22PM +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > downloadable cloud images (in qcow2 and raw.xz format) produced and > > released > I know that it is convenient to expose qcow2 images uncompressed so > users are

qcow2 compression [was Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:21:27PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > Is the compressed image still seekable? If yes, that constrains the > > window/block size and limits the gains from switching compressors. > Dan's answer covered one aspect of this: are qcow2 compressed > images seekable, answ

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:50:53AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:34:33AM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > What's our update story for cloud images ? > > We have the ability to do ad-hoc updates for critical flaws -- we did that > once for F17/F18 in the last few mon

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:00:35 +0200 Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Role based access control with > libvirt = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Virt_ACLs > > Change owner(s): Daniel P. Berrange , Cole > Robinson > > Allow role based access control with libvirt.

Re: what is the F19 way to disable ipv6?

On 2013-07-15 11:37 (GMT-0400) Neil Horman composed: If you really don't want to see ipv6 sockets, you need to use the ipv6.disable kernel command line option. Maybe the problem is that https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/ipv6.txt explicitly contains no such option? Reading t

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:00:32AM +0200, Jiri Eischmann wrote: > > S, speaking of which: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VisibleCloud > I think this is mixing up things together a bit. I don't think no one > thinks we can create an ISO that would work perfectly for all uses > (deskt

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Monday 15 July 2013 17:55:34 Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Tue, 16.07.13 00:55, Dan Fruehauf (malko...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > +1 - same here. You're far from being alone. > > > > I'm still trying to get used to the new systemd in Fedora and still trying > > to think why I need it. Altogether

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:06:30AM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:00:35 +0200 > Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Role based access control with > > libvirt = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Virt_ACLs > > > > Change owner(s): Daniel P. Ber

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:59:02PM +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: > not for me , my choice is qmail (which now is FOSS) ... > > Administrators should install the MTA of their choice after > > installation (or > > via kickstart) and sendmail should not be the default anymore. > and what is the benefi

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Martin Langhoff > wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby >> wrote: >>> One thing I would recommend would be to correctly detect SSD: >>> ATM, I installed my Fedora over an SSD a

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:11:17AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > My voice may be one of thousands, but I'm saying: I want to have > traditional syslog service as default and have journal from systemd > as option. Can you elaborate on why? I'll accept "changing where sysadmins look for log data i

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:21:57PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > Would you run tuned on a server? It was written with that in mind. -- Matthew Garrett | mj...@srcf.ucam.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:37:00PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > Sometimes it happen to me, that I'm fixing totally borked computer. > > And I have available only what is in memory - because HDD with /usr > > crashed, but machine is still running (and /var is readable) and > > with vt open.

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

Tomasz Torcz (to...@pipebreaker.pl) said: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 09:17:56AM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > > = Proposed System Wide Change: SSD cache = > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SSD_cache > > > > > Release engineerin

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

Right. I am not familiar with it. OTOH, a noop scheduler is simple enough and non-dynamic rule. udev seems like a much better fit than a daemon. But what do I know. I am never in the fashion :-) m On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:21:57PM -

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Ruby on Rails 4.0

Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Ruby on Rails 4.0 = > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Ruby_on_Rails_4.0 > > Change owner(s): Vít Ondruch , Josef Stříbný > , ruby-...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Ruby on Rails 4.0 is the latest version of wel

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:09:33PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > How do you set these policies? Is there a command/gui/interface? Or a > > text file? Or ? > It is done via the standard PolicyKit javascript auth rules files How does this fit with the PolicyKit documentation for javascript au

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:34:55PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:09:33PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > > How do you set these policies? Is there a command/gui/interface? Or a > > > text file? Or ? > > It is done via the standard PolicyKit javascript auth rules fil

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

> >Authorization rules are intended for two specific audiences > >· System Administrators > Well one could argue with good conscience that starting, stopping and so on of VMs is a system administration function and this viable for policykit based configuration... Policykit as al

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE DM

On Monday 15 July 2013 13:34:58 Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 15.07.13 13:17, Martin Briza (mbr...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > >BTW, I have some more multi-seat hardware to give away to folks who want > > >to add true automatic multi-seat to stuff like display managers. > > > > > >It's a USB bo

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:38:36PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > >But anyway, this is quite anecdotal. > > I was not laughing when I was on site. > Hmm? Anecdotal certainly doesn't imply amusing? This is a language issue. An anecdote is a short or amusing story -- halfway to being a joke. P

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On 07/15/2013 10:55 AM, Dan Fruehauf wrote: +1 - same here. You're far from being alone. I'm still trying to get used to the new systemd in Fedora and still trying to think why I need it. Altogether for my day to day use I find it as added complexity with no real benefit cerca f15. Unix/Linux

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 12:27 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > Even in less extreme situations than this, it's a fair point that often one > can't run binaries from the system where you need to look at the logs, and > needing special tools (rather than just any viewer or editor) to analyze > those log

Re: what is the F19 way to disable ipv6?

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:05:56PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote: > On 2013-07-15 11:37 (GMT-0400) Neil Horman composed: > > >If you really don't want to see ipv6 sockets, you need to use the > >ipv6.disable > >kernel command line option. > > Maybe the problem is that > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Doc

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:22:22 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: = Proposed System Wide Change: Visible Cloud = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/VisibleCloud Change owner(s): Matthew Miller With Fedora 19's First Class Cloud Images feature [1], we have Amazon EC2 and downloadable cloud

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:37:26PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > >and those audiences only. In particular, applications, mechanisms > >and general-purpose operating systems must never include any > >authorization rules. > What/where's the problem you're seeing ? Not ne

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:58:36PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:37:26PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > >and those audiences only. In particular, applications, mechanisms > > >and general-purpose operating systems must never include any > > >

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

On 07/15/2013 04:13 AM, Christopher Meng wrote: Agree, I have 2 Arndale now, its performance can beats any other v7 devices. But. I'm not sure if A15 can be fully supported. Currently I only see many A9 hardwares. Some requisite patches weren't upstream in time for Fedora 19's 3.9 GA kernel,

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 10:07 -0700, Brendan Conoboy wrote: > Some requisite patches weren't upstream in time for Fedora 19's 3.9 GA > kernel, but are in the 3.10 update. This means Arndale should be fully > supportable in Fedora 20. Meanwhile, there is an F19 remix for Arndale > using a later k

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

On 07/15/2013 10:15 AM, Chris Tyler wrote: I think that's s/Arndale/Chromebook/ Same SoC, different peripherals sticking out. -- Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / b...@redhat.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Hard link to root-owned file now fails (since Fedora 19)

On Fedora 18 (and every Unix since forever): $ touch foo $ sudo chown root.root foo $ ln foo bar On Fedora 19 & Rawhide: $ touch foo $ sudo chown root.root foo $ ln foo bar ln: failed to create hard link ‘bar’ => ‘foo’: Operation not permitted Why? Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Gro

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:55:09AM -0500, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > >With Fedora 19's First Class Cloud Images feature [1], we have Amazon EC2 and > >downloadable cloud images (in qcow2 and raw.xz format) produced and released > >together with the traditional desktop installer and and livecd images.

Re: qcow2 compression [was Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:21:27PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> > Is the compressed image still seekable? If yes, that constrains the >> > window/block size and limits the gains from switching compressors. >> Dan's answer covered one

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 10:28 -0700, Brendan Conoboy wrote: > On 07/15/2013 10:15 AM, Chris Tyler wrote: > > I think that's s/Arndale/Chromebook/ > > Same SoC, different peripherals sticking out. Right -- but also different boot processes. I was just noting that the image for which you provided th

Re: Hard link to root-owned file now fails (since Fedora 19)

Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones said: > Why? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Release_Notes/sect-Release_Notes-Changes_for_Sysadmin.html#idm263811933136 -- Chris Adams -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/d

Re: Hard link to root-owned file now fails (since Fedora 19)

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 06:32:50PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Fedora 18 (and every Unix since forever): > > $ touch foo > $ sudo chown root.root foo > $ ln foo bar > > On Fedora 19 & Rawhide: > > $ touch foo > $ sudo chown root.root foo > $ ln foo bar > ln: failed to create hard li

Re: qcow2 compression [was Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:35:49PM +0200, Juerg Haefliger wrote: > > Or, bigger picture, maybe a future qcow2 format could support this natively? > Confused. Support what? Your comment above indicates that compressed > qcow2 images are seekable already. Seekable xz/lzma compression instead of zlib

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: Role based access control with libvirt

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 06:03:46PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > Yes, libvirt is just calling pkcheck with suitable arguments. The admin > is the one writing the policy files, which is what we need to document > the process for. Ok cool. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:05:47PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > IMHO a publicised security update policy for cloud images should be a > 'must have' prior to promoting the images as 1st class citizens supported > by Fedora. That seems reasonable. I'll talk to the security team. -- Matthew M

Re: Hard link to root-owned file now fails (since Fedora 19)

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:35:58PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, Richard W.M. Jones said: > > Why? > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/19/html/Release_Notes/sect-Release_Notes-Changes_for_Sysadmin.html#idm263811933136 The description there ["follows a link belonging to

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE DM

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:32:51 +0200, Marc Deop i Argemí wrote: On Monday 15 July 2013 13:34:58 Lennart Poettering wrote: Hmm, any chance you can connect me with somebody from the KDE community who might need such a device and would do something nice with it? Somebody who wants to work on som

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On 15.07.2013 11:11, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: >> = Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog = >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog >> >> Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering , Matthew >> Miller >> >> No longer install a tradit

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

I worry about the security implications of mail that would have gone to root@ being either silently discarded or unknowingly ignored. If there is no other way to send mail to local users, we should have a local MTA configured for such. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:48:24PM +0200, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote: > Maybe Fedora developers can arrange some simple survey. Only one > question: do you know what is journalctl and what's it's purpose? If > more than 50% of users (sysadmins, developers and others) answers "yes", > than maybe it'

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Mon, 15.07.13 13:50, DJ Delorie (d...@redhat.com) wrote: > > I worry about the security implications of mail that would have gone > to root@ being either silently discarded or unknowingly ignored. > > If there is no other way to send mail to local users, we should have a > local MTA configure

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

I think this is a bad idea, at least for my setup. I really don't want my small expensive boot SSD being beaten to death trying to cache a multi-terabyte array, especially since I have plenty of RAM that already serves that purpose (the machine rarely reboots). At the very least, this feature sh

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:50:47PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote: > I worry about the security implications of mail that would have gone > to root@ being either silently discarded or unknowingly ignored. That *is* the current case on these systems. The mail happens to live in /var/spool/mail/root, where

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:50 AM, DJ Delorie wrote: > I worry about the security implications of mail that would have gone > to root@ being either silently discarded or unknowingly ignored. > > If there is no other way to send mail to local users, we should have a > local MTA configured for such.

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 13:53, Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) wrote: > If we're going to do a survey, I can think of bigger questions to ask than > that. :) But, in any case, this is certainly not the way Fedora is supposed > to operate. > > Change for its own sake isn't good, and I have had

Re: F20 Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE DM

I opened a package review request: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=984700 now. The DM works, yet there are still some issues (incomplete PAM support, you'll be able to log in but with no sound for example) which I'm working with the upstream on fixing. I'm expecting to include a

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

> But these core parts should work for 100 % users. In all cases, which > are in scenarios you can imagine. And in 90 % of scenarios you can not > imagine. Or in scenarios, which are anecdotal for you. +1 - anything which reduces the tools we have to repair systems or investigate security

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:31:44PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 15.07.13 12:44, Jan Synacek (jsyna...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > On 07/15/2013 11:22 AM, Frank Murphy wrote: > > No, logwatch works only with traditional text-based logs. There is this RFE > > filed [1], but that will pro

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

Brendan Conoboy (b...@redhat.com) said: > On 07/11/2013 12:37 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > >Well, as I said (and you cut out) > >... > >I do know what some people want ARM to be in terms of dense > >hypserscale servers (32/64-bit)... but the community that would be using > >Fedora ARM does seem to

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > (Just to mention this: we are neither the pioneer on the > no-default-syslog feature nor on no-default-sendmail... A lot of other > distros stopped installing an MTA by default a long time ago -- > including Ubuntu since 2007 or so -- a

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Jul 15, 2013, at 7:37 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > If you care about debugging > broken systems journaclt is almost certainly the better option. So far I haven't seen anything in /var/log/messages that isn't in journalctl -xb. Is it fair to say that journalctl -xb should be a superset of

Re: qcow2 compression [was Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:36:57PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:35:49PM +0200, Juerg Haefliger wrote: > > > Or, bigger picture, maybe a future qcow2 format could support this > > > natively? > > Confused. Support what? Your comment above indicates that compressed > > q

Re: qcow2 compression [was Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud]

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:14:04PM +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:36:57PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > Seekable xz/lzma compression instead of zlib/deflate. > > In qcow2, each [by default] 64K cluster is compressed independently. ... and I should say there's a 2

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

Hi On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > On Seg, 2013-07-15 at 12:11 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > So, with this change, you don't have to remove sendmail first. That's > not a > > huge benefit, but there you go. :) > > In others words , NONE ! > Not true. Sendmail by def

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 20:09, Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:31:44PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > On Mon, 15.07.13 12:44, Jan Synacek (jsyna...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > > > On 07/15/2013 11:22 AM, Frank Murphy wrote: > > > > No, logwatch works only with tr

Why can't ExecStopPre= be used to abort stopping a (broken) service?

Hi, For daemons, it happens that people (or puppet/ansible) makes a config change that causes the config file to not load and be invalid. When restarting the service, it will stop but not start. Ideally, the stop should be aborted. I was looking at ExecStopPre= (which is mentioned in the system

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Seg, 2013-07-15 at 12:11 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:59:02PM +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: > > not for me , my choice is qmail (which now is FOSS) > ... > > > Administrators should install the MTA of their choice after > > > installation (or > > > via kickstart) an

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

> And the outputs of these files are the exact same text streams you are > used to. However, enhanced with a lot of niceties that make them more > user friendly. For example, you get colors based on the log level, or > there's a line drawn between reboots. You get the time zone corrected, > and yo

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:40:18 -0400 Matthew Miller wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:05:47PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > > IMHO a publicised security update policy for cloud images should be > > a 'must have' prior to promoting the images as 1st class citizens > > supported by Fedora. >

Re: F20 System Wide Change: ARM as primary Architecture

On 07/15/2013 06:09 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: Brendan Conoboy (b...@redhat.com) said: On 07/11/2013 12:37 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: Well, as I said (and you cut out) ... I do know what some people want ARM to be in terms of dense hypserscale servers (32/64-bit)... but the community that would

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > (Just to mention this: we are neither the pioneer on the > no-default-syslog feature nor on no-default-sendmail... A lot of other As a cross-distro chap, I can attest to this. Specially with sendmail. Everytime I spot sendmail in a Fed

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 12:12, Chris Murphy (li...@colorremedies.com) wrote: > > On Jul 15, 2013, at 7:37 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > > If you care about debugging > > broken systems journaclt is almost certainly the better option. > > So far I haven't seen anything in /var/log/messages that is

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 14:20, DJ Delorie (d...@redhat.com) wrote: > > And the outputs of these files are the exact same text streams you are > > used to. However, enhanced with a lot of niceties that make them more > > user friendly. For example, you get colors based on the log level, or > > there's a l

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Jul 15, 2013, at 9:55 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > "tail -f /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl -f" It's so useful I would like this a default during anaconda installations in one of the shells. > journalctl makes a lot of things easier, much easier. If you say it is > complex or

Re: Packages MUST NOT place files or directories in the /bin, /sbin, /lib or /lib64 directories

Hi, On Qui, 2013-07-11 at 15:30 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 12:48:56PM +, Petr Pisar wrote: > >> I've just spotted usr-move has been completed. > >>

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 14:21, Martin Langhoff (martin.langh...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Lennart Poettering > wrote: > > (Just to mention this: we are neither the pioneer on the > > no-default-syslog feature nor on no-default-sendmail... A lot of other > > As a cross-distro

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 02:47:30PM +0300, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote: > On 2013-07-15 12:56, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > >= Proposed System Wide Change: SSD cache = > >https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SSD_cache > > One thing I would recommend would be to correctly detect SSD: > ATM, I instal

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > You'd usually mount your journal files dir, then direct "journalctl -D > /path/to/the/journal/files/dir" to it. It will then collect all files in > that dir, interleave them and present them to you. Thanks! And that -D would be to the d

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:57:39 -0400 DJ Delorie wrote: > I think this is a bad idea, at least for my setup. I > really don't want my small expensive boot SSD being beaten > to death trying to cache a multi-terabyte array, especially > since I have plenty of RAM that already serves that purpose > (t

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

> it's not going to be shoved down your throat. I've found this to be untrue in Fedora. > > At the very least, this feature should be disabled if the > > SSD is the boot/root drive. When SSDs fail, they fail > > completely, and it's irresponsible to cause early failure > > on a drive that's cri

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:21 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: >> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Martin Langhoff >> wrote: >>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Mihamina Rakotomandimby >>> wrote: One thing I would recommend would be to co

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Seg, 2013-07-15 at 14:17 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > On Seg, 2013-07-15 at 12:11 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > So, with this change, you don't have to remove sendmail > first. That's not a

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:36:06 -0400 DJ Delorie wrote: > > it's not going to be shoved down your throat. > > I've found this to be untrue in Fedora. I think this is disingenuous. Especially at the file-system / block layer, one can point to numerous examples of new features *not* forced on users.

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

Hi On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > On Seg, 2013-07-15 at 14:17 -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Is useful to deliver mails send by cronjobs , as discussed in others > emails of this thread and or we have a good replace for cronjobs > This has already been answered. Logg

Re: Tools to mount and promote Fedora on cybers.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 07/14/2013 06:39 PM, Sérgio Basto wrote: > On Dom, 2013-07-14 at 14:39 +0100, Álvaro Castillo wrote: >> Hello buddies, I want get more information about Fedora and tools to help >> on migration of cybers Windows into Fedora. But I only found old sof

Re: F20 System Wide Change: Visible Cloud

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:21:11PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > That seems reasonable. I'll talk to the security team. > And QA and releng? ;) Sure, but see below for why I said that specifically. :) > I'm worried about the additional work this might cause unless we are > very narrow in what re

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:10:11PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Lennart Poettering > wrote: > > (Just to mention this: we are neither the pioneer on the > > no-default-syslog feature nor on no-default-sendmail... A lot of other > > distros stopped installing an MTA

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

> One process less in the system → faster bootup. As has been pointed out, it could easily be the systemd journal process that writes to /var/log/messages, so there wouldn't necessarily be one fewer process. > Logs not duplicated → less disk usage. True. So keep /var/log/messages and make the bi

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:07:43PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > that's new and interesting. AIUI pre-journal, the default was to > sync() on every message for some logs (and overrriden with a hyphen > for some logs). Am I wrong? Yes. Or rather, your are not wrong, but this ship left the harbor

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Sendmail

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:11:15PM +0100, Sérgio Basto wrote: > > > > Administrators should install the MTA of their choice after > > > > installation (or > > > > via kickstart) and sendmail should not be the default anymore. > > > and what is the benefit ? > > So, with this change, you don't have

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

Am Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:42:29 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:25:49 -0700 > From: Conrad Meyer > To: Development discussions related to Fedora > > Subject: Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache > Message-ID: <20130715122549.5f142

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 15:07, Martin Langhoff (martin.langh...@gmail.com) wrote: > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Lennart Poettering > wrote: > > You'd usually mount your journal files dir, then direct "journalctl -D > > /path/to/the/journal/files/dir" to it. It will then collect all files in > > tha

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, 15.07.13 14:28, Eric Smith (brouh...@fedoraproject.org) wrote: > > One process less in the system → faster bootup. > > As has been pointed out, it could easily be the systemd journal > process that writes to /var/log/messages, so there wouldn't > necessarily be one fewer process. > > > L

Re: F20 System Wide Change: SSD cache

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 22:34:15 +0200 Rave it wrote: > > Hmm, > for me me this is more a question how can i configure > bcache or dm-cache in a system which use more than one SSD > and some conventional hard-disk. Seems like only you or > some kernel devs know about how to do this. Can you give a >

Re: F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 02:28:41PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote: > > One process less in the system → faster bootup. > > As has been pointed out, it could easily be the systemd journal > process that writes to /var/log/messages, so there wouldn't > necessarily be one fewer process. > > > Logs not dupl

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