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On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:09 PM Adam Williamson
wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2020-08-31 at 11:22 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy
> > > wrote:
> > > > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the
On Mon, 2020-08-31 at 11:22 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy
> > wrote:
> > > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with
> > > zram-generator-defaults and had t
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy
> wrote:
> > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with
> > zram-generator-defaults and had to add it to core to pull it into all
> > media. Can you double check my
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy
> wrote:
> > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with
> > zram-generator-defaults and had to add it to core to pull it into all
> > media. Can you double check my
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy
wrote:
Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with
zram-generator-defaults and had to add it to core to pull it into all
media. Can you double check my math? :)
If minimization folks are OK with having it in @core, then it m
On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 11:34 PM Tomáš Popela wrote:
>
> On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 3:24 AM Neal Gompa wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:15 PM Chris Murphy wrote:
>> >
>> > Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano
>> > on the install media itself. Is it intentiona
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 3:24 AM Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:15 PM Chris Murphy
> wrote:
> >
> > Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano
> > on the install media itself. Is it intentional?
> >
>
> It's supposed to be there, but I don't know how Sil
On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:15 PM Chris Murphy wrote:
>
> Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano
> on the install media itself. Is it intentional?
>
It's supposed to be there, but I don't know how Silverblue is
"defined" so it would be pulled in. I thought it'd get i
Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano
on the install media itself. Is it intentional?
--
Chris Murphy
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On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:49 pm, Samuel Sieb wrote:
That's good to know for the change proposal then. I never use the
Workstation install. I net install either with a kickstart or
selecting
the options I want, so that would explain why I always end up with
nano
installed.
I don't think
On 7/7/20 12:39 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 11:26 am, Samuel Sieb wrote:
Why do you think it's gone? It's in the "standard" group, so I think it
should be installed on anything other than base minimal. I find that
it's installed on everything.
Warning: @standard is n
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 11:26 am, Samuel Sieb wrote:
Why do you think it's gone? It's in the "standard" group, so I think
it
should be installed on anything other than base minimal. I find that
it's installed on everything.
Warning: @standard is not included at all in Workstation
__
On 7 July 2020 20:26:52 CEST, Samuel Sieb wrote:
>On 7/7/20 7:56 AM, Michal Schorm wrote:
>> What I miss is the presence of nano in the default installations and images.
>> I strongly believe it was there just a few Fedora releases back, but
>> now, it's gone.
>
>Why do you think it's gone? It'
On 7/7/20 7:56 AM, Michal Schorm wrote:
What I miss is the presence of nano in the default installations and images.
I strongly believe it was there just a few Fedora releases back, but
now, it's gone.
Why do you think it's gone? It's in the "standard" group, so I think it
should be installed
+1 for nano.
What I miss is the presence of nano in the default installations and images.
I strongly believe it was there just a few Fedora releases back, but
now, it's gone.
I would really simplify - or atleast make more friendly - fast file
editing / configuration on fresh systems.
This might
On 07/07/20 14:24 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Ben Cotton wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
== Summary ==
Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
doesn't require specialist knowledge to use.
== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:chrismurphy| Chris
Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
>
> == Summary ==
>
> Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
> doesn't require specialist knowledge to use.
>
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:chrismurphy| Chris Murphy]]
> * Email: chrismur.
On 3 July 2020 21:54:10 CEST, Adam Williamson
wrote:
>On Fri, 2020-07-03 at 21:35 +0200, Markus Larsson wrote:
>>
>> On 3 July 2020 21:30:26 CEST, Adam Williamson
>> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefaul
On Fri, 2020-07-03 at 21:35 +0200, Markus Larsson wrote:
>
> On 3 July 2020 21:30:26 CEST, Adam Williamson
> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
> > >
> > > == Summary ==
> > >
> > > Let's make Fedora mor
On 3 July 2020 21:30:26 CEST, Adam Williamson
wrote:
>On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
>>
>> == Summary ==
>>
>> Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
>> doesn't require specialist kn
On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
>
> == Summary ==
>
> Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
> doesn't require specialist knowledge to use.
>
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:chrismurphy| C
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:18 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek <
zbys...@in.waw.pl> wrote:
> > So all those people are happy with vi? IMHO an argument for changing
> > this would be that a lot of people are already changing EDITOR to nano,
> > so it makes sense to make it a default. If this is actuall
On Fri, Jul 03, 2020 at 11:08:01AM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:01:21AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 05:52:07PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> > >
> > > > While it ma
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:01:21AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 05:52:07PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> >
> > > While it may be worth vim making themselves better, it really doesn't
> > > chan
Neal Gompa writes:
> Oh man, that takes me back! I started on DOS with the MS-DOS Editor,
> then went onto the DOS port of Emacs and using DJGPP, then jumped to
> Linux years later...
Now *that* takes me back to the days when I wrote DJGPP ;-)
And for anyone who thinks vi is hard to use, try the
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 13:14, Iñaki Ucar wrote:
>
> On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 18:54, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> >
> > On 01. 07. 20 18:33, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro
> > > wrote:
> > >> I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano.
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 18:54, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>
> On 01. 07. 20 18:33, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro
> > wrote:
> >> I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano.
> >
> > Actually, playing with it for an extra three minutes..
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 6:42 pm, Miro Hrončok
wrote:
I love micro. The problematic part is it's rather big.
nano: 670 k
micro: 4.7 M
(sizes from repoquery --info)
rpm -qi micro says 16007158 bytes installed... that's 15.3 MiB,
compared to nano at 2.5 MiB, and vim-minimal at 1.3 MiB. I've bee
On 01. 07. 20 18:28, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
I notice that when I copy text it instructs me to "install xclip for external
clipboard." That's not OK since xclip won't do anything in Wayland. Could be
avoided by checking $DISPLAY before printing the message.
See https://github.com/zyedidia/mic
On 01. 07. 20 18:33, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano.
Actually, playing with it for an extra three minutes... it's *really* nice.
I know micro is not nearly as standard or popula
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro
wrote:
I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano.
Actually, playing with it for an extra three minutes... it's *really*
nice.
I know micro is not nearly as standard or popular as nano, but... this
is worth serious addi
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 6:35 am, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
wrote:
'sudo dnf install micro' ;)
It seems to work nicely. I especially like the standard keyboard
shortcuts. I can't figure out how to Undo in nano, but in micro I just
Ctrl+Z. I have not much opinion on whether we should use this
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 4:55 AM Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>
>
> I might support this, but Nano is a terrible editor. It has key
> bindings that are quite unlike any other program and conflict with
> normal bindings that newbies might be used to (eg. ^X is cut, not exit).
>
> If we're going to newb
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
It has key bindings that are quite unlike any other program
Well, any other program that a newcomer is nowadays reasonably likely to be
familiar with. The keybindings are from the Pico text editor, and the Pine and
Alpine email clients.
--
Pete
On 01/07/20 09:54 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
I might support this, but Nano is a terrible editor. It has key
bindings that are quite unlike any other program and conflict with
normal bindings that newbies might be used to (eg. ^X is cut, not exit).
If we're going to newbies how about a m
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 10:54:46 AM CEST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 09:44:12AM +0200, Kamil Dudka wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:16:40 PM CEST Robert-André Mauchin wrote:
> >
> > > May I suggest another option?
> > > I provide a package for Micro, an
I might support this, but Nano is a terrible editor. It has key
bindings that are quite unlike any other program and conflict with
normal bindings that newbies might be used to (eg. ^X is cut, not exit).
If we're going to newbies how about a more MS-DOS-ish experience, eg:
https://en.wikipedi
On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 09:44:12AM +0200, Kamil Dudka wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:16:40 PM CEST Robert-André Mauchin wrote:
> > May I suggest another option?
> > I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable
> > interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/
> >
On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:16:40 PM CEST Robert-André Mauchin wrote:
> May I suggest another option?
> I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable
> interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/
>
> It is compiled as a static binary of 4.6 MB with no dependency.
How
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:47:08PM +0200, Iñaki Ucar wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 21:24, Robert-André Mauchin wrote:
> >
> > May I suggest another option?
> > I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable
> > interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/
'sudo dnf ins
On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 21:24, Robert-André Mauchin wrote:
>
> May I suggest another option?
> I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable
> interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/
>
> It is compiled as a static binary of 4.6 MB with no dependency. Probably
> bigge
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:18:59 CEST Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
>
> == Summary ==
>
> Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
> doesn't require specialist knowledge to use.
>
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:chrismurp
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 05:52:07PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
>
> > While it may be worth vim making themselves better, it really doesn't
> > change the argument.
> >
> > Even a friendlier vim is still going to be far to strange and
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 19:06, Neil Horman wrote:
>
> Right, and I acutally think thats great. You had a problem, you asked the
> questions you needed answers to, and solved your problem. I personally think
> the process of identifying whats bothering you, figuring out a solution (by
> asking que
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> > > From this thread you can find at least two people (me and Ben
> > > Rosser)
> > > who definitely didn't keep using vi (my very next questions were
> > > "what's an easier e
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 pm, Michael Catanzaro
wrote:
Erm... well, no. Plan foiled?
The goal of using /usr/lib/environment.d was to avoid setting more
environment variables in random places in various shell scripts. But
if that only works in GNOME, I guess it's not a great solution after
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 8:01 AM David Kaufmann wrote:
>
> Unfortunately I think this arguing is moot, as the issue seems to have
> been decided already anyway. I only remember one change "proposal" to
> actually being pulled back in the last year, and I'm really disappointed
> about having fake di
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:48 pm, Przemek Klosowski via devel
wrote:
I would like to respectfully disagree---my recollection is that when
there was a vigorous opposition, the proposals were changed/retracted.
In this particular case, it feels to me that the responses are mostly
in
favor, so it
On 6/29/20 7:59 AM, David Kaufmann wrote:
Unfortunately I think this arguing is moot, as the issue seems to have
been decided already anyway. I only remember one change "proposal" to
actually being pulled back in the last year, and I'm really disappointed
about having fake discussions on devel@ w
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote:
> While it may be worth vim making themselves better, it really doesn't
> change the argument.
>
> Even a friendlier vim is still going to be far to strange and
> confusing to somebody just looking to quickly change a setting and g
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:21 PM Adam Williamson
wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
> >
> > == Summary ==
> >
> > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
> > doesn't require speciali
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 10:47:58 +0200, you wrote:
>since vim addresses this when opened without a file and it is open
>source, it seems to me to be a good idea to propose to adjust vim
>behaviour to show the help overview when opening a file as well. For
>example if there is no ~/.vimrc or some other
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 06:11:58AM -0400, Pavel Valena wrote:
> TL;DR please, +1 for nano, as "trial by fire" is not a good first
> experience for someone who just wants to get something done.
This is not "trial by fire", it is just a different interface than
people are used from notepad.exe. Vi m
- Original Message -
> From: "Till Maas"
> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora"
>
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:47:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default
> editor
>
> Hi,
>
&
Hi Till,
I sent a question to Vim mailing list:
https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/931nvz1TKyg
On 6/29/20 10:47 AM, Till Maas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
>> Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what
>> happens
Hi,
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what
> happens in this case) tells you you need to press 'insert' in order to
> actually edit anything. Nothing in vi's default view tells you you have
> to type
On 29 June 2020 04:51:40 CEST, Matthew Miller wrote:
>On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>> > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72
>> See Markus Larsson's comment on this above...
>
>Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't really apply: it takes up
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:51:40 PM MST Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
>
> > > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72
> >
> > See Markus Larsson's comment on this above...
>
>
> Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't rea
Sorry for duplicate, it was already answered.
On 6/29/20 7:10 AM, Zdenek Dohnal wrote:
> Spoiler alert :)
>
> It already does.
>
> On 6/26/20 3:41 PM, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>>> Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道：
>>>
>>>
>>> On
Spoiler alert :)
It already does.
On 6/26/20 3:41 PM, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
>>
>> Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道：
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote:
>>> What about to provide a prompt to the user
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72
> See Markus Larsson's comment on this above...
Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't really apply: it takes up
literally zero additional screen space.
--
Matthew Miller
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:23:17 -0400, you wrote:
>Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be useful.
>Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or some
>common) app on it,
>and they did so intentionally, because they knew it was an app that p
On 6/28/20 10:03 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote:
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all
hell,
not knowing what's going on during the boot process.
> Fedora does not currently have a default terminal text editor, because
> the $EDITOR environment variable is unset by default. But a common
> scenario where users wind up in a terminal text editor is when using
> 'git commit'. By default, git picks vi. You need to spend time
> learning how to use
On Friday, June 26, 2020 10:53:59 AM MST David Cantrell wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
>
> >On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> >>
> >> > > From this thread you can
On Friday, June 26, 2020 11:09:31 AM MST Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:50:52PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
>
> > That actually works really well, and we should seriously consider
> > doing it. Or at least suggesting it to upstream.
> >
> > It doesn't even take extra space
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 1:27:06 PM MST Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:40 pm, Ian McInerney
> wrote:
>
> > Are you sure this will work? I just ran a test, and putting a new
> > config file inside /usr/lib/environment.d only works for Gnome, and
> > doesn't work for Mate
On 2020-06-29 03:03, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote:
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all
> hell,
> not knowing what's going on during the boot proc
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 9:50:20 AM MST John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:18:59 AM MST Ben Cotton wrote:
>
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
> >
> > == Summary ==
> >
> > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
> > d
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote:
> On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> > I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all
> > hell,
> > not knowing what's going on during the boot process.
>
>
> Why does the user need to kn
Hello,
I decided to register just so I could offer my humble take on this. First
of all, I have many years of Linux experience (mostly on Debian and
Gentoo), but after years without having Linux on my desktop environments
(though I did use it on all servers I have managed, mostly on the Debian
sid
On 6/27/20 12:50 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
As an alternative, I would like to recommend we make Emacs the default. Emacs
does not require "specialist knowledge", but is much more powerful once you do
learn how to use it properly. It's also not as hard to use as nano.
I used emacs for 30+ years
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512
On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote:
> On Thursday, June 25, 2020 2:38:13 PM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote:
> > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free
On Friday, June 26, 2020 5:50:01 AM MST Markus Larsson wrote:
> I like to think that I am part of everyone and I would love if we could
> deliver smart solutions that doesn't needlessly change default behaviour
> under the guise "advanced users will know how to configure this".
We're getting to th
On Friday, June 26, 2020 1:19:45 AM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote:
> It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so much time to do dnf
> command completion and one always has to ctrl-c it anyway. That is because
> dnf should use cached results updated by cron and do not contact network
> during inte
On Friday, June 26, 2020 12:51:32 AM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote:
> I feel blind when I do not see what is happening and I feel scared it will
> lock up again and I will be unable to debug it. Besides that it is much
> more pretty to see what is happening and it makes the waiting time
> shorter.
> Al
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 2:38:13 PM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS.
>
>
> First steps of end-users is to install Chrome, Spotify and VirtualBox.
> So there is left no advantage of
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:18:59 AM MST Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault
>
> == Summary ==
>
> Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that
> doesn't require specialist knowledge to use.
As an alternative, I would like to reco
The ship on POSIX mandating vi (and defining it's behavior) sailed years
ago.
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 4:11 PM Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:55, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
> >
> > > I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I
> > > respect vim and I learned
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:38:40PM -0400, Ben Rosser wrote:
> The -t/--tempfile switch for nano (and pico) does exactly this:
> https://linux.die.net/man/1/nano
Yeah, I've had EDITOR='nano -t -r 72' set in my .profile for as long as
I can remember.
- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy
On 6/26/20 10:33 AM, Neil Horman wrote:
If I google how to quit vi, I see a full 10 pages of the answer to the question
documented in detail
The fact that people have to google their way out of such a mundane
circumstance is in my opinion enough to give this proposal a:
+1
As background, I
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:55, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
>
> > I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I
> > respect vim and I learned quite some things in vim. But I'm an emacs
> > user and I find the original decision between vim and emacs for 'git
> > commit' unfair.
>
>
I wrote:
> Zdenek Dohnal wrote:
>> CCing Git maintainer to see whether it can be implemented or not.
I somehow forgot to say that I'm just one of several
maintainers for the git package. :)
I've Cc'd the git-maintainers alias to include the other
folks.
--
Todd
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On 26 June 2020 20:08:53 CEST, Robert Relyea wrote:
>On 6/25/20 12:58 PM, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
>>
>>
>> Anyway, I find it hard to believe that serious developers are
>> unable/unwilling to set their own choice of EDITOR. A systemwide
>> default EDITOR=nano shouldn't cause them any real difficu
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 07:04:51PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
> On 26/06/20 13:23 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> > Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be
> > useful.
> > Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or
> > some
> > common)
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:50:52PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> That actually works really well, and we should seriously consider
> doing it. Or at least suggesting it to upstream.
>
> It doesn't even take extra space. Only uses the bottom row that
> would otherwise be empty.
Fine :) https:/
On 6/25/20 12:58 PM, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
Anyway, I find it hard to believe that serious developers are
unable/unwilling to set their own choice of EDITOR. A systemwide
default EDITOR=nano shouldn't cause them any real difficulty.
I second that. I'm the guy who gets annoyed at non-vi edito
On 26/06/20 13:23 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be useful.
Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or some
common) app on it,
and they did so intentionally, because they knew it was an app that people
On 26/06/20 19:15 +0200, David Kaufmann wrote:
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 03:42:39PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote:
"In the last year, How to exit the Vim editor has made up about .005%
of question traffic: that is, one out of every 20,000 visits to Stack
Overflow questions. That means during peak t
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:15 am, Adam Williamson
wrote:
On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:39 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
Also, have we asked the question, what default editor are other
distros setting?
I've honestly never looked.
I believe no major distro currently sets $EDITOR, so we would be
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> > From this thread you can find at least two people (me and Ben
> > Rosser)
> > who definitely didn't keep using v
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:00 pm, Matthew Miller
wrote:
... that would actually be really easy to do, since a patch isn't
necessary.
export LESS='-MPM?f%f .?n?m(%T %i of %m) ..?ltlines %lt-%lb?L/%L.
:byte %bB?s/%s. .?e(END) ?x- Next\: %x.:?pB%pB\%..%t (h for help or q
to quit)'
But let's no
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:43:10AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 13:37 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> > >
> > > Mint's default seems to be nano, though like openSUSE, it is doing this
> > > some way other than by setting $EDITOR.
> > >
> > Mints just a derivative of openSuse,
On 6/25/20 1:54 PM, Randy Barlow wrote:
I would like to counter propose that we make ed the default editor :P
Just in case it wasn't clear, I was joking here. I support nano as a
default. Let's make Fedora easier for new users, especially those who
are new to the command line and/or Linux.
_
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:45 PM Adam Williamson
wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 13:37 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> > >
> > > Mint's default seems to be nano, though like openSUSE, it is doing this
> > > some way other than by setting $EDITOR.
> > >
> > Mints just a derivative of openSuse, isn't it
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:43:10AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > Mints just a derivative of openSuse, isn't it? It would make sense that
> > this followed.
> I thought it was a derivative of Debian and/or Ubuntu? Wikipedia has it
> in the 'Ubuntu derivatives' category. But anyhow, it doesn't be
On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 13:37 -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> >
> > Mint's default seems to be nano, though like openSUSE, it is doing this
> > some way other than by setting $EDITOR.
> >
> Mints just a derivative of openSuse, isn't it? It would make sense that this
> followed.
I thought it was a der
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote:
> But thats more or less the expectation of unix and unix like systems. For
> all the porcelain and chrome we've put around it, under the covers, its
> all still a bag of parts, and the expectation is (or should be) when using
> a bag of
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