Dne 15.7.2013 18:31, Bill Nottingham napsal(a):
Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said:
= Proposed Self Contained Change: Ruby on Rails 4.0 =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Ruby_on_Rails_4.0
Change owner(s): Vít Ondruch , Josef Stříbný
, ruby-...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Ruby on Rail
- Original Message -
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 02:46:27PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote:
> > I don't actually care whether there's a binary journal or not, but far
> > more of us have real usecases for /var/log/messages, so we shouldn't
> > give up that being available by default.
>
> If you u
On Jul 15, 2013 5:51 PM, "Lennart Poettering" wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16.07.13 09:13, Dan Fruehauf (malko...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > > Well, there are certain things on Unix that are text files and many
> > > things that are not. Binary log files have a long tradition on Unix,
for
> > > example in wtmp
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 16.07.13 09:13, Dan Fruehauf (malko...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > > Well, there are certain things on Unix that are text files and many
> > > things that are not. Binary log files have a long tradition on Unix,
> for
> > > example i
Just in case anyone wanted a different view of the time differences for the F19
build tasks (PA vs ARM):
http://scotland.proximity.on.ca/~jon/koji.times.html
Source code is here based off of DJ Delorie's original work/script:
http://scotland.proximity.on.ca/~jon/koji-times.txt
Jon Chiappetta
> Note that we do include journalctl on all our livecds. Also, most
> distributions do include it in some way or another, and you do not need
> to boot systemd to use to it access your journal files.
Not true,
RHEL 6 and its friends do not include journalctl.
So if I want to cover both Fedora d
Hi
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > On Mon, 15.07.13 16:42, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > I assume you mean "arrow key to the right", but that doesn't work when
> I
> > > run "journalctl". I get "No next file" (and "No previous fil
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 08:46:55PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> > The total space taken by journal is limited by size and percantage of
> > free space on the /var/log/journal filesystem [1], and age
> > [2]. Individual journal files are limited
Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> The total space taken by journal is limited by size and percantage of
> free space on the /var/log/journal filesystem [1], and age
> [2]. Individual journal files are limited by size and age [3,4].
Thanks, I see there's a journald.conf now. A
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:26:15PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> > Sure, those are the defaults. If you had written that you don't like
> > the systemd defaults, instead of talking about "bugs", this whole
> > conversation would have been much pr
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:21:11PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> We've never provided updated live images down the road for security
> issues. I understand cloud is a bit different, but we need to be clear
> on the scope, IMHO.
I guess it *is* worth noting that if you go to http://fedoraproject.org
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:27:57PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> If it isn't too much of a thread-drift - this brings to mind another
> question: how are the journal files rotated, archived, etc.? I don't
> see anything in the man page.
You can also use time-based rotation policies, but it's not ve
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:27:57PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > Well, the duplicate log files will be accounted for every instance of a
> > container/VM. The more containers you run, the more often you pay for
> > it. This is different than just having
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
>> It's a feature you don't get traditionally because syslog drops the
>> priority information from the on-disk format.
>
> I'd expect that if somebody thought that was an important default, the
> log format would have been updated years ago when
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 02:46:27PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote:
> I don't actually care whether there's a binary journal or not, but far
> more of us have real usecases for /var/log/messages, so we shouldn't
> give up that being available by default.
If you use bash or ksh you could just replace /var/
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> Well, the duplicate log files will be accounted for every instance of a
> container/VM. The more containers you run, the more often you pay for
> it. This is different than just having one package installed too much in
> the image, which can be shared a
Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> Sure, those are the defaults. If you had written that you don't like
> the systemd defaults, instead of talking about "bugs", this whole
> conversation would have been much productive.
When I described the behavior, I was told I was wrong and
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:28:48PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> But this is a really different discussion anyway. I know some people
> hate auto-paging, but I am pretty sure more people learned to love it
> since it was introduced by git. I love auto-paging for sure.
The difference between g
On Mon, 15.07.13 17:21, Stephen John Smoogen (smo...@gmail.com) wrote:
> On 15 July 2013 16:39, Matthew Miller wrote:
>
> > I'm putting this in a separate thread so it doesn't get buried in the
> > enthusiasm over the other one. :)
> >
> > Here's our dilemma (Or trilemma?) in the Fedora Cloud SI
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 06:39:59PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Actually, journalctl DOES do something other than popen("less"); it
> overrides the user's $LESS and sets it to "FRSXMK" (the S option tells
> less to chop lines). So while technically journalctl is not chopping
> lines, it is forcing
On Mon, 15.07.13 18:39, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:43:43PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > No, the "bug" is journalctl, not less. If I run "journalctl | less", I
> > > get wrapped lines. If I run "j
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 06:39:59PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:43:43PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > No, the "bug" is journalctl, not less. If I run "journalctl | less", I
> > > get wrapped lines. If I run "jour
On Tue, 16.07.13 09:13, Dan Fruehauf (malko...@gmail.com) wrote:
> > Well, there are certain things on Unix that are text files and many
> > things that are not. Binary log files have a long tradition on Unix, for
> > example in wtmp and utmp. We have binary files in /etc, and everywhere
> > else.
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:35:48PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> On 07/15/2013 11:34 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> >journald doesn't have remote logging capabilities and it's my understanding
> >that it's a non-goal. Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a lightweight
> >forwarder which i
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 07:25:28PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 09:13:24AM +1000, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> > Another question while we're at it - what happens if and when you decide to
> > change your binary format for storing files for whatever reason? Is that
> > when we un
Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:43:43PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > No, the "bug" is journalctl, not less. If I run "journalctl | less", I
> > get wrapped lines. If I run "journalctl", I get truncated lines
> > (despite your repeated claims to t
On 07/15/2013 11:34 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
journald doesn't have remote logging capabilities and it's my understanding
that it's a non-goal. Personally, I'd be interested in seeing a lightweight
forwarder which integrates with, say, Logstash.
Well let's not forget and easily dismiss the jour
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:21:02PM -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> > 1) Double-logging is a significant waste of scarce resources
> Well I can see IO resources as being scarse but how scarse are we really
> talking? [There comes a point where cutting down the size of an image isn't
> going to
On 07/15/2013 11:15 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:02:09PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
I would assume they take into account hard valid technical arguments
not change in workflow ( which any change might bring ) or people
pluses or minuses but maybe that's just my
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:43:43PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > On Mon, 15.07.13 16:42, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> > > I assume you mean "arrow key to the right", but that doesn't work when I
> > > run "journalctl". I get "No next file"
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Mon, 15.07.13 14:53, Eric Smith (brouh...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
>
> > > The need for
> > > /var/log/messages filters down to wanting to use less or shell
> > > built-ins to read the data, which is a valid usecase, but not
> > > wo
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 09:13:24AM +1000, Dan Fruehauf wrote:
> Another question while we're at it - what happens if and when you decide to
> change your binary format for storing files for whatever reason? Is that
> when we understand that we should have been left with just text based files?
A st
On 15 July 2013 16:39, Matthew Miller wrote:
> I'm putting this in a separate thread so it doesn't get buried in the
> enthusiasm over the other one. :)
>
> Here's our dilemma (Or trilemma?) in the Fedora Cloud SIG.
>
> 1) Double-logging is a significant waste of scarce resources
>
>
Well I can s
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:02:09PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> I would assume they take into account hard valid technical arguments
> not change in workflow ( which any change might bring ) or people
> pluses or minuses but maybe that's just my wishful thinking.
"This has a change in w
On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 16.07.13 00:55, Dan Fruehauf (malko...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> > +1 - same here. You're far from being alone.
>
The +1 BTW was on Miroslav's comment. Obviously I'm against that change.
> >
> > I'm still trying to get used to the n
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:21:57PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote:
> > And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this since this
> > is FESCO decision
> Some of us would like to think that FESCO members might be influenced
> by arguments made on the development list. Maybe that's just wi
That's the point. You don't get to be a primary architecture until
you've demonstrated that doing so won't slow down the other
architectures
>>> Is that "you don't get to be a primary architecture unless you have
>>> demonstrated that nobody outside of the ARM SIG needs to do any wor
On 07/15/2013 10:21 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"
wrote:
And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this since this
is FESCO decision
Some of us would like to think that FESCO members might be influenced
by arguments made on the
On 07/15/2013 10:16 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 09:53:56PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this
since this is FESCO decision and actually with my QA hat on we could
have been better prepared for this and worke
On 07/15/2013 10:15 PM, Paul Wouters wrote:
The correct way here is to stay true to what is tried and tested in
the legacy sysv init scripts and add the config parser to the
ExecStartPre= line in the unit file.
I have that now, but it still causing the service to terminate after a
"restart", w
I'm putting this in a separate thread so it doesn't get buried in the
enthusiasm over the other one. :)
Here's our dilemma (Or trilemma?) in the Fedora Cloud SIG.
1) Double-logging is a significant waste of scarce resources
2) If we disable persistent journald (the f19 approach), we lose the
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> On Mon, 15.07.13 16:42, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> > I assume you mean "arrow key to the right", but that doesn't work when I
> > run "journalctl". I get "No next file" (and "No previous file" for
> > left-arrow).
>
> Yes, to the right.
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:21:57 -0600
Eric Smith wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"
> wrote:
> > And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this
> > since this is FESCO decision
>
> Some of us would like to think that FESCO members might be influenced
On 16.07.2013 00:21, Eric Smith wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"
> wrote:
>> And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this since this
>> is FESCO decision
> Some of us would like to think that FESCO members might be influenced
> by arguments made
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 3:37 PM, Matthew Miller
wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 02:17:28PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
>> 1. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=949328
>> 2. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=869540
>
> Often, people maintain a package because it's requ
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:53 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"
wrote:
> And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this since this
> is FESCO decision
Some of us would like to think that FESCO members might be influenced
by arguments made on the development list. Maybe that's just wish
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 1:08 PM, David Tardon wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 06:06:04PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
>> On 07/11/2013 02:04 PM, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
>> >On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 3:56 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"
>> > wrote:
>> >>Each sub-community ( be it spins be it vari
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 09:53:56PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
> And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this
> since this is FESCO decision and actually with my QA hat on we could
> have been better prepared for this and worked to our advantage (
> instead of be dealin
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
If I grok correctly what you are asking for, you are actually looing for
an ExecRestartPre=, not an ExecStopPre=. You want somthing that is run
before we stop a service when we intend to restart it. But when we
shutdown the system and stop the
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-07-11 at 22:07 -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
>> Adam Williamson writes:
>>
>> > [...] "Primary Architectures : These are architectures with the
>> > majority of the users, the most common architectures. [...]
>>
>> By that s
On Tue, 16.07.13 00:05, Mateusz Marzantowicz (mmarzantow...@osdf.com.pl) wrote:
> On 15.07.2013 23:49, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:38:14PM +0200, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
> >> On 15.07.2013 23:06, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >>> It's a matter of finding the
On 15.07.2013 23:49, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:38:14PM +0200, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
>> On 15.07.2013 23:06, Lennart Poettering wrote:
>>> It's a matter of finding the right balance: i.e. what can be text
>>> files, and where we have to win more by making
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 5:32 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 11:58:08PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 11:50:24PM -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> > > Or does it mean x86 as PA is out of line? There are a lot more people
>> > > with ARM devices than x8
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 05:41:38PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:38:29PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > And, despite your statement to the contrary, "journalctl" (without -f)
> > does truncate long lines. The difference is that "journalctl" just
> > chops them off, while
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
>> On 07/11/2013 10:41 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>>>
>>> Kernel, glibc, all the core library stacks. And I would argue that yes,
>>> this
>>> *includes* libGL. So llvmpipe needs fixed
On 07/15/2013 09:26 PM, Jonathan Masters wrote:
On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:11, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
= Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog
Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering , Matth
On Mon, 15.07.13 17:26, Jonathan Masters (j...@redhat.com) wrote:
> >> The systemd journal will be the default logging solution. Rsyslog,
> >> Syslog-NG,
> >> and even traditional sysklogd will continue to cover use cases outside of
> >> the
> >> default.
> >
> > My voice may be one of thousand
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> But this specific usecase certainly warranted this, and the
> journal does deliver the requirements we cared for.
I'm sure it does. But I think those requirements mainly apply to
servers and enterprise installations, not the average Fe
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:38:14PM +0200, Mateusz Marzantowicz wrote:
> On 15.07.2013 23:06, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > It's a matter of finding the right balance: i.e. what can be text
> > files, and where we have to win more by making it binary. I am pretty
> > sure this is a case where we win
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> Oh, sorry, I was imprecise. Bash actually tells you when new mail is put
> into the spool. E.g. if you log in as root, touch /var/spool/root and
> wait up to 60 seconds and run e.g. ls, bash should tell you that there
> is new mail before the nex
On Mon, 15.07.13 16:42, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > On Mon, 15.07.13 16:38, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> > > And, despite your statement to the contrary, "journalctl" (without -f)
> > > does truncate long lines. The differen
On Mon, 15.07.13 23:38, Mateusz Marzantowicz (mmarzantow...@osdf.com.pl) wrote:
> On 15.07.2013 23:06, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > It's a matter of finding the right balance: i.e. what can be text
> > files, and where we have to win more by making it binary. I am pretty
> > sure this is a case w
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:15:54PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> > Bash usually tells you when there is mail in the spool, which is IMHO a
> > big difference to /dev/null.
>
> Funny, I just ssh'd into my machine, and it didn't tell me anything
> ab
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:31:38PM -0500, Robert Nichols wrote:
> So, all users on a multi-user system are now expected to dig through
> syslog output to see the output from their cron jobs?
What? No. If you have a traditional multiuser system you probably want to
install and configure an MTA. Not
Once upon a time, Martin Langhoff said:
> You might be hitting a bug, have a surprising pager envvar or
> something. My general experience is that it does page things. I don't
> think there's a conspiracy against your pager.
I do set LESS and PAGER, but I just tried without either set, and I get
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Robert Nichols
wrote:
> So, all users on a multi-user system are now expected to dig through
> syslog output to see the output from their cron jobs?
A fair point, but in my experience the most common case is a
single-user system where the user doesn't even use cro
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-07-11 at 09:17 +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
>
>> > I'm afraid I can't agree. I like the simplicity of the model you're
>> > proposing, but from a practical point of view, there is still a commonly
>> > held perception
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> On Mon, 15.07.13 16:38, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> > And, despite your statement to the contrary, "journalctl" (without -f)
> > does truncate long lines. The difference is that "journalctl" just
> > chops them off, while "journalctl -f" d
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:38:29PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> And, despite your statement to the contrary, "journalctl" (without -f)
> does truncate long lines. The difference is that "journalctl" just
> chops them off, while "journalctl -f" does the nutty "chop characters
> columns-4 to lineleng
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Chris Adams wrote:
> And, despite your statement to the contrary, "journalctl" (without -f)
Hey Chris!
You might be hitting a bug, have a surprising pager envvar or
something. My general experience is that it does page things. I don't
think there's a conspiracy a
On Mon, 15.07.13 16:38, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > On Mon, 15.07.13 16:31, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> >
> > > Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > > > (also: journalctl doesn't truncate lines when doing auto-pa
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:22:43PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> > This means that you haven't really used journalctl. It *is* much
> > nicer. Try it, and you'll stop wanting to go back to 'less
> > /var/log/messages'
> > and 'tail -f /var/log/*
Once upon a time, Matthew Miller said:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:22:43PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
> > So I went and tried journalctl, and immediately hit the same UI
> > stupidity as systemctl. Truncated lines, auto-paging, etc., unless I
> > pipe to something else. Significantly differing b
On 15.07.2013 23:06, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> It's a matter of finding the right balance: i.e. what can be text
> files, and where we have to win more by making it binary. I am pretty
> sure this is a case where we win more by sticking to binary files.
> It's totally fine if you disagree on this
On Mon, 15.07.13 17:31, Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> 4) lack of current tools for attempting to recover a possibly scrambled
> file
Well, let's note on this one that the journal is fine with the
tail-corrupted files with its default tool set. However, we have no nice
to
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> On Mon, 15.07.13 16:31, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
>
> > Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > > (also: journalctl doesn't truncate lines when doing auto-paging)
> >
> > It most certainly does, at least on an up-to-date F18 syste
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>> Adam Jackson (a...@redhat.com) said:
>>> If we really wanted to talk about graphics on arm, we'd be talking about
>>> writing drivers for GPUs.
>>
>> Is there any use to shipping fr
On Mon, 15.07.13 16:31, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> > (also: journalctl doesn't truncate lines when doing auto-paging)
>
> It most certainly does, at least on an up-to-date F18 system. The
> truncation behavior is even DIFFERENT between
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 03:12:00PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote:
> /var/log/messages that I don't want to see it go away. It's far
> easier for me to tell someone a grep command on the phone than to also
> have to tell them to run some other tool and pipe the input into grep,
I think actually the jour
On Mon, 15.07.13 15:28, Eric Smith (brouh...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Lennart Poettering
> wrote:
> > (But
> > really, the comparison is just wrong, since the registry is a
> > configuration store, and not a log store.)
>
> It's not a perfect analogy, yet the
On 07/15/2013 04:17 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Till Maas wrote:
But the information cron sends via email is usually more important than
the regular log entries, because output in cron jobs usually means there
is an error. It seems wrong to store the important data hi
Once upon a time, Lennart Poettering said:
> (also: journalctl doesn't truncate lines when doing auto-paging)
It most certainly does, at least on an up-to-date F18 system. The
truncation behavior is even DIFFERENT between "journalctl" and
"journalctl -f" modes!
--
Chris Adams
--
devel mailing
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 02:53:06PM -0600, Eric Smith wrote:
> But it's what people actually use in 99.9% of cases. 99.9% of the
> time I don't need the extra information in the binary journal. Making
> /var/log/messages unavailable by default has a huge down side.
We should probably refrain from
On 07/15/2013 11:09 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
If I'm understanding you, you would prefer that ARM be blessed with the
stamp of being a 'primary' arch at the cost of dropping release targets,
images, and featuresets that are made by and for the community now.
I wouldn't put it like that. The A
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> (But
> really, the comparison is just wrong, since the registry is a
> configuration store, and not a log store.)
It's not a perfect analogy, yet the arguments for both seem very
similar, which is why I brought it up. We should try to l
On Mon, 15.07.13 16:22, Chris Adams (li...@cmadams.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> > This means that you haven't really used journalctl. It *is* much
> > nicer. Try it, and you'll stop wanting to go back to 'less
> > /var/log/messages'
> > and 'tail -f /var/lo
On Wed, 2013-05-22 at 05:18 -0400, Martin Sivak wrote:
> > One thing that doesn't seem to have been covered in the discussion —
> > what about third-party firstboot modules?
> >
> > For an install on a corporate machine we have a firstboot module which
> > asks for the Active Directory credentials
On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:11, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
> On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
>> = Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog =
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog
>>
>> Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering , Matthew
>> Miller
>>
>> No longer install
On 07/15/2013 08:55 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Mon, 15.07.13 14:18, Paul Wouters (pwout...@redhat.com) wrote:
Hi,
For daemons, it happens that people (or puppet/ansible) makes a config
change that causes the config file to not load and be invalid. When
restarting the service, it will sto
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
> On 07/11/2013 10:41 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>>
>> Kernel, glibc, all the core library stacks. And I would argue that yes,
>> this
>> *includes* libGL. So llvmpipe needs fixed, outside of any desktops.
>> Should
>> we define the core func
On Mon, 15.07.13 23:14, Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:14:35PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> > This feature is about not doign local mail delivery by default, by not
> > installing any MTA. Instead you find the log output of cronjobs at the
> > same pl
Once upon a time, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek said:
> This means that you haven't really used journalctl. It *is* much
> nicer. Try it, and you'll stop wanting to go back to 'less /var/log/messages'
> and 'tail -f /var/log/*'.
So I went and tried journalctl, and immediately hit the same UI
stupid
On Mon, 15.07.13 15:14, Eric Smith (brouh...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Lennart Poettering
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 15.07.13 14:53, Eric Smith (brouh...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> >> If we go to having only binary logs by default, maybe we should also
> >> go to hav
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> But the information cron sends via email is usually more important than
> the regular log entries, because output in cron jobs usually means there
> is an error. It seems wrong to store the important data hidden among
> less important data.
Then
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Peter Jones wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:58:59AM -0700, Brendan Conoboy wrote:
>
>> Security features are implemented and working- except
>> evidently pointer guards, which we found out about *yesterday*.
>
> The point of this isn't just that it was broken,
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Till Maas wrote:
> Bash usually tells you when there is mail in the spool, which is IMHO a
> big difference to /dev/null.
Funny, I just ssh'd into my machine, and it didn't tell me anything
about mail being in the spool, but when I do an ls on the spool
directory,
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> On Mon, 15.07.13 14:53, Eric Smith (brouh...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
>> If we go to having only binary logs by default, maybe we should also
>> go to having only binary configuration files by default. It's
>> basically the same argume
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:14:35PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> This feature is about not doign local mail delivery by default, by not
> installing any MTA. Instead you find the log output of cronjobs at the
> same place as you find any other log output, the journal/syslog, for
> example acc
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:57:37PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 01:50:47PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
> > I worry about the security implications of mail that would have gone
> > to root@ being either silently discarded or unknowingly ignored.
>
> That *is* the current case
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> It's a matter of finding the right balance: i.e. what can be text files,
> and where we have to win more by making it binary. I am pretty sure this
> is a case where we win more by sticking to binary files. It's totally
> fine if you dis
1 - 100 of 309 matches
Mail list logo
