Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread Alessio Stalla
Well, perhaps it ought to be "black" people who get to say whether they feel offended by white/blacklist, and in that E. Kemokai's answer is very valuable. If we're doing this because someone is being hurt by some offending language, then +1. If we're doing this to "be on the right side", then -1 f

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread Konstantin Boudnik
Well said! > If we're doing this to "be on the right side" Or "there are some groups projecting their own inner guilt and trying to convince the rest of us they are on a moral high ground aka right side". But because of their record of implementing poly-logism and moral relativism arguments

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread OCsite
Ladies — if any in this sad debate — and gentlemen, > Well, perhaps it ought to be "black" people who get to say whether they feel > offended by white/blacklist Indeed. Myself, I invariably find thoughts of Walter E. Williams highly worth studying. Amongst others, he also wrote “The true test

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread Thibault Kruse
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 19:18 Alessio Stalla wrote: > Well, perhaps it ought to be "black" people who get to say whether they > feel offended by white/blacklist, and in that E. Kemokai's answer is very > valuable. > Some expressions are non-inclusive even if no person were to feel offended by them

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread Jenn Strater
Hi everyone, I find this thread especially the responses very educational in regards to the problems our community faces with inclusivity. I know my vote doesn't count, but +1 from me. Jenn On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:59 AM Thibault Kruse wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 19:18 Alessio Stalla > wr

Blacklist: On the Rationality of Feelings

2020-06-13 Thread MG
Since feelings play a big part in this, and it was suggested that rationality cannot be applied to feelings: You can of course reason about feelings, analyze where they come from, etc. It is also highly dangerous to just follow your feelings, that is what very young children do. Which is also th

Re: Blacklist: On the Rationality of Feelings

2020-06-13 Thread Paul King
Hi mg, some good points. Groovy tries to be as agnostic as it can on many points. Let users choose between static or dynamic, functional or imperative, etc. Given some users would like to avoid using blacklist/whitelist, isn't giving them that option a useful thing? We are talking about a rarely

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread Konstantin Boudnik
Thank you for chiming in, Jenn. As you mention "problems our community faces with inclusivity" - would you mind mention a case of such a problem in the past? I was one of the mentors of this project (as in was a part of it from its early days in ASF), so I guess I am missing something in this

Re: More inclusive naming

2020-06-13 Thread Remko Popma
Thank you for chiming in, Cos. I actually read Jenn's comment to mean the IT community in general, not this project. In general I am a big fan of blaming myself first to try and learn, rather than seeking to blame outside factors, but I would not recommend that you try to take personal responsibil