- Original Message -
From: "Anthony Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: a modest proposal - Debian needs more $
> On 12 Feb 2002, Roderick Cummings wrote:
> > >From: Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL P
On 12 Feb 2002, Roderick Cummings wrote:
> >From: Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> >Subject: Re: a modest proposal - Debian needs more $
> >Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:21:27 -0600
> >
>
> I assume the reason why U
On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 14:18, Roderick Cummings wrote:
> I assume the reason why US-based people have it easy when they make
> donations is because the treasurer is in the US. For whatever the reason, I
> say rather than force debian to build some complicated financial structure,
> people who don
From: Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: a modest proposal - Debian needs more $
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:21:27 -0600
I assume the reason why US-based people have it easy when they make
donations is because the treasurer is in the U
On 22 Jan 2002, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:46:45AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > I'd be more than happy to make a contribution to Debian, but how do I do
> > that from Britain?
>
> http://www.spi-inc.org/donations explains how to make donations from
> Europe (there's a b
Colin Watson wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:46:45AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> > I'd be more than happy to make a contribution to Debian, but how do I do
> > that from Britain?
>
> http://www.spi-inc.org/donations explains how to make donations from
> Europe (there's a bank account i
On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:50:24 -0800, ben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 21 January 2002 12:05 pm, dman wrote:
> [snip]
> > When I first saw your subject in my log (before I looked at the
> > mailbox itself) I was expecting a really funny and outrageous story
> > containing a real suggestion
On Tue, 2002-01-22 at 02:02, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0251 +0100]:
> > No, no, no. Not "one out of thirty", "thirty out of one" :-).
>
> shit, you got me ::hides under table::. now you may call me dyslexic.
Ah, but that would be disnumerate...
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On Monday 21 January 2002 8:59 pm, Aaron Traas wrote:
> I have an interesting counter-proposal.
>
I think you should read
http://tuxedo.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/homesteading/
(again if you have already) - especially chapter 6
I think Debia
On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:07:21 -0800
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> dman> | I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping.
> dman> | It should be more.
>
> dman> This is an easy problem to solve! Mail me a (valid) chec
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Then I guess I should join that team instead of tying up the mailing
> list with silly ideas.
>
> Brian
---
Hi Brian. I think you finally may see the truth of Debian and Linux in
general. If you feel like something just must be done to help t
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 05:48:25AM -0500, Tom Allison wrote:
| dman wrote:
|
| >On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:49:42AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| >| also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
| >| > but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
| >| > in recent months
On Monday 21 January 2002 02:52 pm, nate wrote:
> > And people who download ISO's to sell should be paying a LOT.
>
> i'd like to see ISO images that have nothing more then
> boot/root+base. they'd be maybe 20-30MB a piece ...
> i download the ISOs soley to install without floppies
> i rarely insta
On Monday 21 January 2002 12:59 pm, Aaron Traas wrote:
> I have an interesting counter-proposal.
>
> Everyone on this list probably uses debian in one way or another. A few
> of us, myself included, have a little extra cash which we could give the
> project.
>
> Why don't we borrow an old tradition
On Monday 21 January 2002 12:07 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
ultmately, it ceases to matter what [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote. briand,
you're missing the point. debian is a philosophy, and an exercise of human
will that trancends notions of property. whatever debian can ever be said to
be depends on
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 11:46:45AM +, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> I'd be more than happy to make a contribution to Debian, but how do I do
> that from Britain?
http://www.spi-inc.org/donations explains how to make donations from
Europe (there's a bank account in Germany to which money transfers
On Monday 21 January 2002 12:05 pm, dman wrote:
[snip]
> When I first saw your subject in my log (before I looked at the
> mailbox itself) I was expecting a really funny and outrageous story
> containing a real suggestion buried in it. The subject reminds me of
> the essay "A Modest Proposal" (may
On 22 Jan 2002, martin f krafft wrote:
>
[snip]
> what i don't understand is why people always need other people to go
> along. are you scared to be on your own when facing debian's treasurer?
> i'll hold your hand. are you to insecure, or more talk then action? then
> here's a tip: take out your
dman wrote:
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:49:42AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
| > but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
| > in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
| > have gone away. or maybe its just
also sprach Aaron Traas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0422 +0100]:
> The reason I propose this is for people like me who really don't think
> of it much. I'm terrible at remembering to do regular things, while at
> the same time, I'd like to give, say, $200 or so a year to Debian. I
> just never
> Have you ever tried ftp.redhat.com? Commercial... 0 bandwidth.
>
> 10-20 is still not bad - remember the days when it cost per hour
> and you got 3 kb/s and disconnected all the time?
redhat. ugh. their mirror system is so broken and their
bandwidth so out of whack its not funny. though they
martin f krafft wrote:
>
> also sprach Aaron Traas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2159 +0100]:
> > Why don't we borrow an old tradition: voluntary tithe. For Debian users,
> > a suggested donation schedule could be made, such as $2.00 USD per
> > month, per Debian box if apt-get (or deselect, etc
martin f krafft wrote:
> > This would make it simple/automatic to periodically donate small
> > amounts of cash, for anyone who is too forgetful to do so on a
> > regular basis. At the same time, it would be an entirely opt-in
> > thing, so people who do not have the money/do not wish to donat
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 02:52:19PM -0800, nate wrote:
> but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
> in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
> have gone away. or maybe its just my providers.. usually
> 10-20kb/s once or twice i can get a site that can give
> 100+kb/s.
Hav
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 03:02:09AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0251 +0100]:
| > No, no, no. Not "one out of thirty", "thirty out of one" :-).
|
| shit, you got me ::hides under table::. now you may call me dyslexic.
| now it's 3am. i can't beli
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 05:00:12PM +, Karl E. Jorgensen wrote:
> > And people who download ISO's to sell should be paying a LOT.
>
> I'm not sure about this one. The ISO's that I have spotted for sale (in
> the UK) are quite cheap: About ?5 - ?20 for the full set, where the
> more expensive on
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people
also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0251 +0100]:
> No, no, no. Not "one out of thirty", "thirty out of one" :-).
shit, you got me ::hides under table::. now you may call me dyslexic.
now it's 3am. i can't believe i fell for this one. and all because i
tried hard to be funny.
dman, i
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 02:42:39AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0232 +0100]:
| > | trouble Debian did shield from you,
| >
| > Not quite what you meant here :-). How much damage would I have done
| > to the trouble? (correct phrase "trouble Deb
also sprach dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0232 +0100]:
> | trouble Debian did shield from you,
>
> Not quite what you meant here :-). How much damage would I have done
> to the trouble? (correct phrase "trouble Debian did shield you
> from"). It's ok, dyslexia strikes 30 out of 1, or so
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 12:07:21PM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| > "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
| dman> | So I pay - then we immediately get into the tar-pit of why should I
| dman> | pay and no one else does.
|
| dman> 'cause you have extra dough to throw around and
On Tue, Jan 22, 2002 at 12:49:42AM +0100, martin f krafft wrote:
| also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
| > but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
| > in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
| > have gone away. or maybe its just my providers..
Brian writes:
> And if they sell Debian CD's why aren't they _required_ to have a donation
> checkbox ?
How do you propose to go about "requiring" them?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.22.0126 +0100]:
> Yep - I suppose. Time will tell. Still going to use Debian. Still
> going to file bug reports. Still going to write checks (or use a
> credit card). Hope it's enough...
i'll accept credit card and relay to the debian
Brian writes:
> I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping. It
> should be more.
Nothing is stopping you from paying as much as you want to.
> Plus you just made my point - more will get done if we can hire people to
> work full time.
Who do you plan to hire?
> Why not
> "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
dman> When I first saw your subject in my log (before I looked at the
dman> mailbox itself) I was expecting a really funny and outrageous story
dman> containing a real suggestion buried in it. The subject reminds me of
Ouch - that hurt. So
Brian writes:
> I find it annoying that I can download an ISO and turn around and sell it
> and not have to give 1 monetary unit to Debian.
I don't, and I wrote some of the stuff in that ISO.
> I don't think it's reasonable.
I do. It costs me nothing when you download that ISO, and no one was a
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1946 +0100]:
> >> apt-get -u dist-upgrade, we aren't going to object. if you start
> >> charging, i am leaving, and i guarantee you that most every other
> >> developer will too.
>
> I'm still not clear on why you would. Please e
also sprach nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2352 +0100]:
> but i too wouldn't mind a pay download service ..seems
> in recent months most of the fast U.S. debian mirrors
> have gone away. or maybe its just my providers.. usually
> 10-20kb/s once or twice i can get a site that can give
> 100+kb
also sprach Aaron Traas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.2159 +0100]:
> Why don't we borrow an old tradition: voluntary tithe. For Debian users,
> a suggested donation schedule could be made, such as $2.00 USD per
> month, per Debian box if apt-get (or deselect, etc.) was used in that
> month. We co
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1944 +0100]:
> So I pay - then we immediately get into the tar-pit of why should I
> pay and no one else does. Something of a "tragedy of the commons"
> argument.
because you feel like Debian is worth paying for. it doesn't matter what
>
> And people who download ISO's to sell should be paying a LOT.
i'd like to see ISO images that have nothing more then
boot/root+base. they'd be maybe 20-30MB a piece ...
i download the ISOs soley to install without floppies
i rarely install files other then the base off CD.
but i too wouldn't
I have an interesting counter-proposal.
Everyone on this list probably uses debian in one way or another. A few
of us, myself included, have a little extra cash which we could give the
project.
Why don't we borrow an old tradition: voluntary tithe. For Debian users,
a suggested donation schedule
> "dman" == dman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
dman> | I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping.
dman> | It should be more.
dman> This is an easy problem to solve! Mail me a (valid) check for $1,000
dman> US and I'll mail you back a CD. :-)
LOL. yeah that
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:56:19AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here is a somewhat off-topic question :
>
> You know all those nice CD vendors that have a donation checkbox for
> Debian. How do I know they are really donating the money ? And if
> they sell Debian CD's why aren't they _requi
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 11:56:19AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| > "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
| Colin> /usr/share/doc/debian/debian-manifesto is a pretty good
| Colin> start. Debian is a distribution free in terms of both speech
| Colin> and beer. If we sta
> "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Colin> /usr/share/doc/debian/debian-manifesto is a pretty good
Colin> start. Debian is a distribution free in terms of both speech
Colin> and beer. If we start charging our users for downloading it,
Colin> we will be making the live
On Monday 21 January 2002 11:28 am, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:44:26AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > martin> go and pay. contribute, donate. speak to me if you want to
> > martin> know where to tur
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:44:26AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> martin> go and pay. contribute, donate. speak to me if you want to
> martin> know where to turn to. or any other developer. noone will
> martin> keep you from p
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:52:27AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I don't think it would be. I find it annoying that I can download an
> ISO and turn around and sell it and not have to give 1 monetary unit
> to Debian. I don't think it's reasonable.
It's completely reasonable. It's free softw
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:44:26AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| I find it annoying that I can buy a Debian CD for $3.00 + shipping.
| It should be more.
This is an easy problem to solve! Mail me a (valid) check for $1,000
US and I'll mail you back a CD. :-)
| And remember nothing is stopp
Brian writes:
> Expand on why you think developers will leave, it's not obvious to me.
If Debian does as you suggest I will leave.
> If I pay someone to do unfun work others don't like doing wouldn't that
> be a positive thing ?
So go ahead and pay someone (me, for example). What's stopping you
> "Karl" == Karl E Jorgensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Karl> Hm. I thought that most of the debian servers ran on donated
Karl> hardware / bandwidth anyway. If I am correct, then I'm not
Karl> sure that it's right to=20 charge for it...
Natrually if you were charging then you'd start
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 10:21:34AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Colin> Are you sure it isn't? You do that and I guarantee you most of the
> Colin> developers will leave.
>
> yes I'm sure it isn't.
OK.
> It may be in the course
Karl E. Jorgensen writes:
> I think that if anybody sold ISO's for profit (i.e. charged more than a
> reasonable cost price for download, cd, burning, packaging etc), then
> they would be in breach of the license.
On the contrary. It would be a breach of the DFSG to try to tell people
that they _
> "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
martin> also sprach martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1758
+0100]:
>> apt-get -u dist-upgrade, we aren't going to object. if you start
>> charging, i am leaving, and i guarantee you that most every other
>> develo
I think a careful reading of the following documents
might help in understanding the motivations behind the
debian project as a whole:
http://www.debian.org/intro/free
http://www.debian.org/social_contract
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> "martin" == martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
martin> --pf9I7BMVVzbSWLtt
martin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15
martin> Content-Disposition: inline
martin> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
martin> also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "J" == J A Serralheiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
J> Personaly, I think that working for fun on spare time gives the best
J> achievements, as that happend with my self. I dont state here that
I completely agree. Unfortunately that work will lean heavily towards
"interesting" things.
> "Colin" == Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Colin> On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> I have the following modest proposal :
>>
>> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
>> downloads from it's sites. 56k is
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people
On 21-Jan-2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Debian fans,
>
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people to work on the not fun st
also sprach martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1758 +0100]:
> apt-get -u dist-upgrade, we aren't going to object. if you start
> charging, i am leaving, and i guarantee you that most every other
> developer will too.
s/if you start/if we start/
> there are a lot of things that money
also sprach Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1755 +0100]:
> From where I'm sitting, this goodwill seems only to be increasing.
anyone want to hire me to develop for debian? ;^>
--
martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
\ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailt
also sprach [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.01.21.1735 +0100]:
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people to work on the not fun stuff that needs doing.
>
> And p
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 04:54:22PM +, J.A.Serralheiro wrote:
> But somekind of non-monetary reward should be given.
Seeing people all over the world use software you've written and, once
in a while, thank you for it is an amazing reward in itself.
> If one day debian gets a little short in ca
Personaly, I think that working for fun on spare time gives the best
achievements, as that happend with my self. I dont state here that
developers should work harder. NOT AT ALL. But somekind of non-monetary
reward should be given. Even if some take advantage of others work, what
debian and free s
On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 08:35:35AM -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have the following modest proposal :
>
> Debian should start charging for high-speed apt-get/dselect/whatever
> downloads from it's sites. 56k is free, anything faster you pay for.
> Then we can pay people to work on the not f
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