On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 05:46:07PM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
> This is clearly not appropriate; it is not "perfectly reasonable" to
> install a driver package without the firmware, any more than it is
> reasonable to install a dynamically-linked binary without its shared
> library dependencies.
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:44:46PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> It's misleading.
Yes.
There are lawyers who will express things in a misleading fashion if
they think that's in the best interests of their clients, and if they
think they will not get in legal trouble for doing so.
--
Raul
Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:25:07PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
>>>"You cannot install, or ask your customer to install a GPL version of
>>>OpenQM and then install your own product unless that product is also
>>>delivered to the user under GPL or an approved variant."
>>
>>This
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:25:07PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > "You cannot install, or ask your customer to install a GPL version of
> > OpenQM and then install your own product unless that product is also
> > delivered to the user under GPL or an approved variant."
>
> This would be accurate fo
Marco d'Itri wrote:
> - notwithstanding the disagreement of a few people here, even if
> post-sarge eagle-usb-data will have to be moved to non-free, there is
> nothing in our policy which prevents to downgrade the hard dependency
> to a suggestion, to be able to keep shipping the free driver
Raul Miller wrote:
> Is there any reason to believe that by "GPL" they mean the "GNU Public
> License"?
Just a note: s/GNU Public License/General Public License/g. "GPL" is
"General Public License", and "GNU GPL" is "GNU General Public License";
there is no such thing as the "GNU Public License",
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:46:07PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:36:08PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> > Is there any reason to believe that by "GPL" they mean the "GNU Public
> > License"?
>
> The G in "GPL" is "General", not "GNU". (I'm sure you know this, but
> you sai
John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> Glenn Maynard wrote:
>>On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:01:05PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
>>I'm saying that a package built with ecc (or icc or whatever) is not
>>the same package that you'll get if you build the same sources with
>>gcc; it's significantly functiona
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Raul Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > I strongly suggest that you read the following two web pages:
> > > http://easyco.com/initiative/openqm/opensource/index.htm
> > > and the accompanying faq:
> > > http://easyco.com/initiative/openqm/opensource/faq.htm
> > >
>
> On Tue
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:36:08PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> Is there any reason to believe that by "GPL" they mean the "GNU Public
> License"?
The G in "GPL" is "General", not "GNU". (I'm sure you know this, but
you said "GNU Public License" several times in this mail.)
> I can think of seve
Wesley W. Terpstra wrote:
> Since there's one GPL question left, I am still posting to debian-legal.
> The legal question is marked ** for those who want to skip the rest.
>
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 11:49:56AM -0700, Josh Triplett wrote:
>>Whether your university owns a license or not doe
Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 06:55:30PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
>>>On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 07:51:00PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Main must be built with only packages from main.
>>On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 12:37:45AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> As a side note, I thin
Lewis Jardine wrote:
> Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> If you still insist, consider this: If I would know i386 assembler
>> (which I don't), I could theoretically hand-optimize software before I
>> upload it. Since I did hand-optimization, the resulting binary would no
>> longer be built using only Free
Note: I've left Anthony Youngman's email address in the headers,
but I seem to have a local problem where email to Anthony bounces.
[I can work around that, using telnet, but it's a pain.]
> >
> > I strongly suggest that you read the following two web pages:
> > http://easyco.com/initiative/
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:36:08PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> [4] "GPL" means "GNU Public license" and all sources are readily
> available under the GPL. In this case, the author of those pages is
> probably not competent.
Actually, the pages at those urls look fine -- it's either myself or
the
[I'm taking the liberty of Cc:'ing you against Debian list
policy. Please set MFT in the future if you wish people to respond to
you personally.]
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
> Sorry if this is not quite the right place, but I'm somewhat fuming ...
>
> There's a really nice pie
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 11:23:33PM +0100, Anthony W. Youngman wrote:
> I strongly suggest that you read the following two web pages:
> http://easyco.com/initiative/openqm/opensource/index.htm
> and the accompanying faq:
> http://easyco.com/initiative/openqm/opensource/faq.htm
Is there
Sorry if this is not quite the right place, but I'm somewhat fuming ...
There's a really nice piece of software, called QM (it's a database)
that has allegedly been released under the GPL by its owner, one Martin
Philips, of a company called Ladybridge, in England.
He was talked into doing th
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"John H. Robinson, IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The only difference is in *performance*. If there are other differences,
> then there is a bug in one of the two compilers. If you are equating
> performance with functionality, then we are going to have a very hard
> time communicating.
This i
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:16:17AM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> The only difference is in *performance*. If there are other differences,
> then there is a bug in one of the two compilers. If you are equating
> performance with functionality, then we are going to have a very hard
> time comm
I am not subscribed to debian-legal
Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:01:05PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
>
> I'm saying that a package built with ecc (or icc or whatever) is not
> the same package that you'll get if you build the same sources with
> gcc; it's significantly
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:39:45AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> No, it is not. What you advocate is essentially that a later compilation
> must result in the exact same binary, disregarding the fact that our
> toolchain will change..
Please review this post:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-l
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
>
> Loïc, I suggest you read the whole debian-legal thread named "non-free
> firmware: driver in main or contrib?", because it answers many of the
> points you raised.
> I will summarize the points relevant to the eagle-usb-* packages:
thanks Marco, as
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 06:28:01PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
[...]
> This package is buildable by tools in main. It meets the letter of the
> law. The spirit seems a bit ambiguous. Good case in point, the m68k
> cross-compiled stuff, where the cross-compiler used was non-free. (I
> have no
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 05:47:26PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 02:04:42AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > A difference in optimization is not relevant to a package's freedom.
>
> If compiling the program with a non-free compiler gains you users who would
> not find the
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 08:11:50PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:24:44PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> > Exact words are:
> >
> > In addition, the packages in _main_
> > * must not require a package outside of _main_ for compilation or
> > executi
Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:25:48PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 01:47:34AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>> > The first section of the SC says that Debian will remain 100% Free
>> > Software.
>>
>> That is the title of that sec
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> you wrote:
Loïc, I suggest you read the whole debian-legal thread named "non-free
firmware: driver in main or contrib?", because it answers many of the
points you raised.
I will summarize the points relevant to the eagle-usb-* packages:
- distribution of firmwares w
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:24:44PM -0400, Glenn Maynard wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 06:28:01PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> > Note the exact words (I am assuming that Glenn copied them verbatim):
> > the package in main must be buildable with tools in main
>
> Exact words are:
>
>
I know this thread has progressed beyond the actual situation
I asked about, but I wanted to just throw in my opinion too.
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:13:24AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> A program is IMHO not only specified by the fact that it does certain
> transformations from input to output,
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:13:24AM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> * Wouter Verhelst ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041019 00:40]:
> > Wesley's software can be built using software in main. It will not be as
> > fast, but it will still do its job, flawlessly, without loss of
> > features, with the ability to m
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:25:48PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 01:47:34AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > The first section of the SC says that Debian will remain 100% Free
> > Software.
>
> That is the title of that section.
>
> If you bother to read it, you'll see "We
* Wouter Verhelst ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [041019 00:40]:
> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 07:51:00PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > Le lundi 18 octobre 2004 à 19:22 +0200, Wesley W. Terpstra a écrit :
> > > So, when it comes time to release this and include it in a .deb, I ask
> > > myself: what would ha
On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 10:01:05PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
> I agree with this. This is also not the point. You keep talking about
> pracakge that can only be built with a non-free compiler. The one in
> question can be built with a free or non-free compiler.
No, that's not what I said.
Loïc Minier wrote:
> Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Mon, Oct 18, 2004:
>>No sourcecode bits:
>>http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/thread/20021106.222149.24f92b22.en.html
>
> Quite interesting, although related to code running on the host, most
> of the thread is interesting.
Note that wher
I am not subscribed to debian-legal.
Glenn Maynard wrote:
>
> Consider a major, practical reason we require that packages be buildable
> with free tools: so people--both Debian and users--can make fixes to the
> software in the future.
I agree with this. This is also not the point. You keep talk
"John H. Robinson, IV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> This package is buildable by tools in main. It meets the letter of the
> law. The spirit seems a bit ambiguous. Good case in point, the m68k
> cross-compiled stuff, where the cross-compiler used was non-free. (I
> have not verified the accuracy
Francesco Poli wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:56:54 +0200 Arnoud Engelfriet wrote:
> > You're right. The license is intended to be a common-law
> > contract. Hence the phrases about assent. So the idea is that the
> > licensee has agreed to everything in the license.
>
> Being a common-law-contra
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