I'd be a little more radical :)
begin rewording proposal
The Debian New Maintainer process, is the process of becoming an
official
Debian Developer (DD). These webpages are the place were
prospective Debian
Developers can find all the details on applying to become a DD, the
different steps
On 4/6/06, JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
>
> New Member ?
That would have the advantage (and disadvantage, at the same time) the
the abbreviation stays the same.
Advantage, because of people inertia calling it "NM"
Disadva
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
> The Debian Project New Member process, is the process of becoming an
> official Debian Project Member (DPM), also called Debian Developer
> (DD) for historical purposes.
It's more than that; that's what the constitution refers to Debian
Developers as, so the
On 2006/04/06, at 17:00, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
On 4/6/06, JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
New Member ?
That would have the advantage (and disadvantage, at the same time) the
the abbreviation stays the same.
And also the a
On 2006/04/06, at 16:55, Don Armstrong wrote:
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
The Debian Project New Member process, is the process of becoming an
official Debian Project Member (DPM), also called Debian Developer
(DD) for historical purposes.
It's more than that; that's what the consti
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 12:55:55AM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
> > The Debian Project New Member process, is the process of becoming an
> > official Debian Project Member (DPM), also called Debian Developer
> > (DD) for historical purposes.
I would suggest "
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:24:26PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> >Disadvantage, because the change will not be so evident from the
> >outside (more of a publicity issue, but that is what a part of the
> >problem is, so we need to change the image that DD=package maintainer)
> No because, as you'll see
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> No because, as you'll see in my edits to cobako's proposal, the aim =20
> is to have people think in terms of "membership" and not in terms of =20
> "developership". Which will obviously make it easier for long term =20
> non-maintainer contributors to understand tha
On Thursday 06 April 2006 09:19, JC Helary wrote:
> I'd be a little more radical :)
changed text
I think the s/New Maintainer/New Member/g is a definate improvement, it
removes one big misnomer and keeps the same abreviation.
I think the term DD is to ingrained to just change it, it's likely
On Thursday 06 April 2006 07:00, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> But I, specifically, want to be able to vote in elections.
>
> Do those two things really need to be the same?
IMHO: yes.
You have to be a formal member of the project before you can vote.
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No because, as you'll see in my edits to cobako's proposal, the aim
is to have people think in terms of "membership" and not in terms of
"developership". Which will obviously make it easier for long term
non-maintainer contributors to understand that they are also welcome.
All this is really a per
On Thursday 06 April 2006 10:33, JC Helary wrote:
> > It's more than that; that's what the constitution refers to Debian
> > Developers as, so the NM process needs to use the same terminology.
>
> Yes, the constitution refers to Developers as being _Project Members_.
> (article 5.1.2)
You are repe
--- Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> Please stop this "member" nonsense, you are rapidly starting to become a
> troll. Any points that you have wanted to make were clear about 6 mails
> ago. The rest is repetition. Please accept that the consensus is against
> you and move on.
I do
On Thursday 06 April 2006 12:06, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
> I think the s/New Maintainer/New Member/g is a definate improvement, it
> removes one big misnomer and keeps the same abreviation.
I disagree. If it needs to be changed, let's change it to what is the real
purpose of the project
On Thursday 06 April 2006 12:46, Frans Pop wrote:
> I disagree. If it needs to be changed, let's change it to what is the
> real purpose of the project, namely introducing a New Developer to the
> project.
Eh, real purpose of the _process_.
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On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 02:30:46AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 05:24:26PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> > >Disadvantage, because the change will not be so evident from the
> > >outside (more of a publicity issue, but that is what a part of the
> > >problem is, so we need to c
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 04:19:59PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
> I'd be a little more radical :)
>
> >begin rewording proposal
> >The Debian New Maintainer process, is the process of becoming an
> >official
> >Debian Developer (DD). These webpages are the place were
> >prospective Debian
> >De
On 2006/04/06, at 19:24, Frans Pop wrote:
On Thursday 06 April 2006 07:00, Clytie Siddall wrote:
But I, specifically, want to be able to vote in elections.
Do those two things really need to be the same?
IMHO: yes.
You have to be a formal member of the project before you can vote.
I am su
On 2006/04/06, at 19:35, Frans Pop wrote:
Please stop this "member" nonsense, you are rapidly starting to
become a
troll. Any points that you have wanted to make were clear about 6
mails
ago. The rest is repetition. Please accept that the consensus is
against
you and move on.
Do you want
On Thursday 06 April 2006 13:31, JC Helary wrote:
> Or do you agree that developers are formally members of the debian
> project ?
A Debian Developer (capitals, formal term, defined in the Debian
Constitution) is a member (lower case, general dictionary word meaning
"belonging to") of the Debian
MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> The 'Maintainer' in NM is a misnomer, I understand it is possible to go
>> through NM as a translator or documentation writer.
> I also had replies from Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt and Eddy Petrişor
> saying simila
On Thursday 06 April 2006 13:31, JC Helary wrote:
Or do you agree that developers are formally members of the debian
project ?
A Debian Developer (capitals, formal term, defined in the Debian
Constitution) is a member (lower case, general dictionary word meaning
"belonging to") of the Debian pr
On 06/04/2006, at 7:10 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Err, no. We're still Debian Developers, whether we do actual
development
or something else.
I think a great deal of the perception problem rests on the fact that
in the FLOSS world (if not everywhere in computing) a "developer" is
shorth
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
>
> Why does it need to be changed? People maintain websites, translations,
> documentation, packages - I don't see a reason to change the current
> name.
It seems to cause confusion wit
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 07:19:22AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> you and others use the word 'contributing', 'contribute',
> 'contributions'. So why not 'Debian Contributor'.
Ghaah.
Because I'm a developer, who develops an operating system, not just
someone who merely 'contributes' to it
On 4/6/06, Bas Wijnen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, I'd suggest the constitution gets changed to use better terminology.
I think this will be regarded by many as a controversary change
(anyone remember the "simple wording change" which made much of the
documentation be moved in non-free?)
On 2006/04/06, at 22:21, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
If people don't understand that you don't have to write code to be a
developer, then they should be told. If they are told, and they
misunderstand, then that is a bug which should be fixed. But don't go
around claiming that I'm suddenly not a "dev
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> (We also have plenty of people who contribute heavily to the
>> project without being recognized as members; but I think that
>> "member" is a lesser title that doesn't do justice to their
>> contributions -- I want to see these people recognized as
>> *d
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > How about calling it New Developer if that's what it should be?
> >
> > Why does it need to be changed? People maintain websites,
> > translations, documentation, packages - I don't see a reason to
On Thursday 06 April 2006 15:29, JC Helary wrote:
> Nobody's saying that you are going to stop being a developer. You can
> be proud of what you do being a developer. You've earned that status.
>
> But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> they suddenly have become develo
* JC Helary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060406 16:14]:
> However true that technically is, it clearly does not contribute to
> the well-being of non-maintainer contributors in the Project.
I agree to that statement - but that shouldn't make us replace the nice
term Debian Developer with a not-so-nice t
On Thu, 6 Apr 2006 22:29:54 +0900 JC Helary wrote:
> The bug is in the relation between "from new maintainer->to
> developer" and the corollary "other contributors don't _need_ to
> become developers".
>
> However true that technically is, it clearly does not contribute to
> the well-being
On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to Debian, it
should be no problem for an active c
On 2006/04/06, at 23:18, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis) wrote:
Also even if -from an outsiders perspective- the jargon used is
quirky and
strange. I have to wonder:
if one is not even willing to look at the jargon used by the
project from
the projects point of view. Then why on earth would one
Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > [...] It seems better to name it after the
> > target of the process, what they become - a Developer.
>
> The Maintainer mentioned in a package control field is a Package
> Maintainer.
>
> I fail to see wh
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 14:18:13 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > > [...] It seems better to name it after the
> > > target of the process, what they become - a Developer.
> >
> > The Maintainer mentioned in a package
"=?ISO-8859-2?Q?Eddy_Petri=BAor?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> (anyone remember the "simple wording change" which made much of the
> documentation be moved in non-free?)
Point of information: non-free-software documentation in main was
already seen as a bug before the GR to which I think you refer.
IIRC
On Apr 06, MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Point of information: non-free-software documentation in main was
> already seen as a bug before the GR to which I think you refer.
A lot of people disagree.
--
ciao,
Marco
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On Thu, 06 Apr 2006, JC Helary wrote:
> Also in the constitution there is clear reference to
> developers=project members in 5.1.2
>
> >>2. Lend authority to other Developers.
> >>The Project Leader may make statements of support for points of
> >>view or for other members of the project, when as
Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > Of your last 20 recorded uses of the word "Maintainer" on
> > debian lists before this thread that I found, you use it once
> > in another meaning (webmaster) and that was uncapitalised.
>
> Which makes "Ma
JC Helary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>> And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
>> nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
>> culture - even if this is unclear to people who are new to De
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri)
> On Apr 06, MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Point of information: non-free-software documentation in main was
> > already seen as a bug before the GR to which I think you refer.
> A lot of people disagree.
They were being reported as bugs. If you are willing
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Am 06.04.2006 um 10:58 schrieb Bas Wijnen:
Especially in the NM corner, it is important that people understand
what is
meant. We can't assume that they'll understand our jargon.
Therefore I
support the change of using Debian Project Member and
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 11:33:05PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:50, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote:
>
> >And anyway, it's not like people who should consider to join have
> >nothing to do with Debian and don't know the particularities of its
> >culture - even if this is unclear
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:29:54PM +0900, JC Helary wrote:
>
> On 2006/04/06, at 22:21, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>
> >If people don't understand that you don't have to write code to be a
> >developer, then they should be told. If they are told, and they
> >misunderstand, then that is a bug which sh
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian contributor
> > and not use Debian at all ?
>
> No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
> cannot be an active Debian contributor without knowing about its
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Nobody's saying that you are going to stop being a developer. You can
> > be proud of what you do being a developer. You've earned that status.
> >
> > But requiring people who are not software developers to understand
> > they suddenly have
> On 4 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill spake thusly:
>
> >
> >> The problem is more one of 'how do we identify those people that
> >> aren't a Developer, but that do contribute regularly'.
> >
> > There are a number of ways of doing this although, like NM, it's
> > ultimately a human process that is c
> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at the term
> "developer" and conclude it's not for them.
First, none of these groups usually think of the work that
Hello,
I came across your website in a search for Sales and thought I would write.
I have a website targeting entrepreneurs with over 110,000 regular monthly
readers. We're creating a new section devoted to Sales and would like to
profile your website and provide information to our readers. Do yo
Hello,
I came across your website in a search for Sales and thought I would write.
I have a website targeting entrepreneurs with over 110,000 regular monthly
readers. We're creating a new section devoted to Sales and would like to
profile your website and provide information to our readers. Do yo
Hello,
I'm happy to announce that debian-installer translation
for Thai has (eventually) started.
The language coordinator is me. And a backup coordinator
is Isriya Paireepairit (markpeak-at-gmail-dot-com).
You can also contact our team mailing list (Cc:) on
translation problems.
Thank you,
--
T
Hey Theppitak!
Welcome to Deb18n !! :D
Theppitak is our courteous and very hard-working Thai team-leader at
Gnome. It's very good news indeed, to have him here at Debian.
On 07/04/2006, at 12:34 PM, Theppitak Karoonboonyanan wrote:
I'm happy to announce that debian-installer translation
fo
On 07/04/2006, at 4:32 AM, Eddy Petrişor wrote:
On 4/6/06, Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that one can be an active Debian
contributor
and not use Debian at all ?
No. And even if it did, I fail to see how that is relevant here. You
cannot be an active D
Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Quoting MJ Ray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> > Is Rosetta free software yet?
>
> No. But (guessing that a secret *real* question is hidden behind your
> public question) that does not prevent us to show interest for it, as
> the official word from Ubuntu is that it
> system. Working for it based on will-be-free vapour is foolish.
Sure. But just let me be a fool...:-)
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On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 17:56:06 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> Jonas Smedegaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 16:35:38 +0100 MJ Ray wrote:
> > > Of your last 20 recorded uses of the word "Maintainer" on
> > > debian lists before this thread that I found, you use it once
> > > in another meaning
On 6 Apr 2006, Benj. Mako Hill told this:
>
>> And maybe I'm too heavily steeped in Debian culture to take an
>> objective view, but I don't see any reason why translators,
>> documentation writers, artists, et al. should look at the term
>> "developer" and conclude it's not for them.
>
> First,
Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> That's total bullshit. If they would really care about joining, they
> could simply start to read the documentation, which explicitly shows
> them how to understand the term maintainer and/or developer.
That's total bullshit. Do you read all documentati
Quoting Theppitak Karoonboonyanan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Hello,
>
> I'm happy to announce that debian-installer translation
> for Thai has (eventually) started.
I'm of course very happy to welcome the Thai translation community in
the Debian Installer translation effort. Theppitak is not a new na
Today, I activated Northern Sami translations in D-I after the initial
effort by Børre Gaup.
So, starting from today, these translations will be able to spread out
among all D-I packages and, as a consequence, will also be in future
Ubuntu and Skolelinux installers (the exact timing will depend on
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